It seems like there is an advocacy for permissive parenting in today's society or is it just me?

[Serap]

That is true, and I have a very good example story when daughter was six about discipline. My daughter before that only had two temper tantrums outside the home at three, after that I learned very well how to handle.going to stores: first I would make sure all needs were met, second I would sit with her and explain to her that we were going to a store quickly, that I wasn’t going to buy anything for her but after finishing our errand we would go.for a fun activity together, I would explain to her how I was expecting her behavior to be, and I would tell her good behavior gets rewards but that tantrums wouldn’t get her what she wanted and would only get her grounded and i would stick to my word. With that in between three and six my daughter was wonderful at stores, never had a tantrum, if I said we are not buying this, she would say ok, and our shopping time was always easy. Well at six she became friends with a little girl called P. P.had zero discipline in her house, to the extent I saw.P twice hitting the mother, and the mother s reaction was to run to obey P after being hitted by her.

One day I was at target with my daughter and like always talked to her that I wasn’t going to buy anything but after we would go to get ice cream. In the store my daughter sees a toy and says she wants to buy it and I say no. All of a sudden she, the well behaved kid, started screaming, threw herself on the floor, started kicking and having a massive temper tantrum. When I saw this I turn around and said if you think that you are going to get a toy with that behavior you are wrong. No means no, you can kick.and scream all that you want, that doesn’t work with me. And now because of this temper tantrum you are having no ice cream and we go straight home to put you in time out.

After I say that my daughter immediately stopped the tantrum, immediately stop crying,.Sat down and told me…wait a.minute. how does that didn’t work.for you? I saw P.doing exactly this to her mom and her mom did all she wanted. Why it is not working with you?

:bigyikes::bigyikes: I was in shock!!! After that I didn’t allow her to play that much with P. Now a days P at 10.behaves like if she were 17, her mother doesn’t know what to do with her,.is a bully at school, has lost most of her decent friends and doesn’t listen to anyone. Is very sad to see how this girl has turned just because her mother never put discipline on her. And quite interesting to see the mind of a six year old trying to test limits with me based on what she saw with p. In my case obviously spanking wouldn’t have worked at six, what worked for me.at six was talking, not doing what she was asking, not taking her to ice cream and instead go home and put her in time out. However I have to say that probably some spanking was what P needed at some point.

There is a girl like “P” in my daughter’s daycare and she is horrible. She swore at my daughter last month and I told the daycare about it afterwards. They were not even surprised and told me that they have issues with this girl. I met her mom and then I understood

Permissive parenting creates monsters. They are like birth control for people discerning if they want kids.

Your parenting style with your DD would never have worked with my son. He would never be reasoned with like that. Just last week, we had to leave a store b/c of a tantrum. He keeps trying it over and over to see if it will work. Each time, he realizes that it doesn’t work and he’ll behave for a few months and then BAM…another trantrum and another punishment. My kid is hard headed like his dad

Although, on most occassions I do get lots of compliments on how well behaved my kids are. When they are bad…OMG!!! So embarrassing!!! I get death stares on those days.

My son’s behaviour has been improving with each passing month. His school and daycare says he is a very good boy.

 

[marymary1975]

Your parenting style with your DD would never have worked with my son. He would never be reasoned with like that. Just last week, we had to leave a store b/c of a tantrum. He keeps trying it over and over to see if it will work. Each time, he realizes that it doesn’t work and he’ll behave for a few months and then BAM…another trantrum and another punishment. My kid is hard headed like his dad

Although, on most occassions I do get lots of compliments on how well behaved my kids are. When they are bad…OMG!!! So embarrassing!!! I get death stares on those days.

My son’s behaviour has been improving with each passing month. His school and daycare says he is a very good boy.

Well all kids are different so what works for some may not for others. Also my mother in law says that boys are way more.challenging that girls. She always say that while reason used to work with her daughters it wasn’t the case with her sons. She says that boys have more difficulty expressing their feelings and get more frustrated so so they tend to have more tantrums than girls. I wonder too if boys require some different approach but I don’t have boys so I have zero experience with boys so I cannot talk too much about it. But the fact that your son has made such great improvement means that what you are doing with him is working, so just keep doing exactly what your doing, I think you are heading right and I am sure he will.just keep improving.more.and.more.

 

[lapislazuli]

do you think the issues are different for children with disabilities? recently Disney changed its disability accommodation from what was often a skip to the front pass, or at least be put in a much shorter line, to a pass that allows the family to wait the current amount of time outside the line. this change was based on abuse of the pass by able-bodied people and “disabled” “guides” that made the news.

many parents said their kids couldn’t wait in line and wouldn’t be able to wait outside the line due to meltdowns. the biggest response seemed to be from parents of kids with autism who talked about meltdowns and said they differed from tantrums.

I don’t have any knowledge in this area but am wondering if disciplining a child with a disability is harder but can be done, or in some cases isn’t practical/extremely difficult.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

do you think the issues are different for children with disabilities? recently Disney changed its disability accommodation from what was often a skip to the front pass, or at least be put in a much shorter line, to a pass that allows the family to wait the current amount of time outside the line. this change was based on abuse of the pass by able-bodied people and “disabled” “guides” that made the news.

many parents said their kids couldn’t wait in line and wouldn’t be able to wait outside the line due to meltdowns. the biggest response seemed to be from parents of kids with autism who talked about meltdowns and said they differed from tantrums.

I don’t have any knowledge in this area but am wondering if disciplining a child with a disability is harder but can be done, or in some cases isn’t practical/extremely difficult.

The effectiveness of parental discipline in children with say autism is going to vary depending on the extent of their autism, and their own personality as well. The thing is that waiting quietly for 10 minutes may truly be an amazing effort of self-control for a child with autism but many people don’t realise that - they think that anyone over the age of about 2 should easily be able to wait for 10 minutes.

Waiting for even 15 minutes without a meltdown may really be asking too much for some children with moderate or severe autism. Another child with milder autism may be able to wait rather longer if the circumstances are ideal. Being out in public with all the noises and sights and other distractions and discomforts (heat, cold, thirst, etc) that entails is far from an ideal situation for a child with autism. It’s different from a ‘normal’ child having a tantrum but I guess there’s some comparison - a lot of it is about not being able to cope with what is happening at the time.

A child with severe autism may even have difficulty understanding the concept of having to wait when they are standing in a line right next to the thing they want. It’s a long hard slog that takes years of commitment and upset and meltdowns and strategic withdrawals along the way to try and teach this sort of thing. Parents may find they’ve managed to teach the child that ‘we must wait in line at the grocery store’ but that that doesn’t translate to ‘we must wait in line at the amusement park’.

All kids with autism are going to be different of course and have different ‘triggers’ and different responses to things, that’s part of why it’s so hard.

 

[lapislazuli]

The effectiveness of parental discipline in children with say autism is going to vary depending on the extent of their autism, and their own personality as well. The thing is that waiting quietly for 10 minutes may truly be an amazing effort of self-control for a child with autism but many people don’t realise that - they think that anyone over the age of about 2 should easily be able to wait for 10 minutes.

Waiting for even 15 minutes without a meltdown may really be asking too much for some children with moderate or severe autism. Another child with milder autism may be able to wait rather longer if the circumstances are ideal. Being out in public with all the noises and sights and other distractions and discomforts (heat, cold, thirst, etc) that entails is far from an ideal situation for a child with autism. It’s different from a ‘normal’ child having a tantrum but I guess there’s some comparison - a lot of it is about not being able to cope with what is happening at the time.

A child with severe autism may even have difficulty understanding the concept of having to wait when they are standing in a line right next to the thing they want. It’s a long hard slog that takes years of commitment and upset and meltdowns and strategic withdrawals along the way to try and teach this sort of thing. Parents may find they’ve managed to teach the child that ‘we must wait in line at the grocery store’ but that that doesn’t translate to ‘we must wait in line at the amusement park’.

All kids with autism are going to be different of course and have different ‘triggers’ and different responses to things, that’s part of why it’s so hard.

thanks. it sounds like it’s a difficult life. especially b/c waiting in one situation doesn’t always translate to waiting somewhere else. the new system does not require the autistic child/adult to go up to the ride and get the time pass, another person can do that. but then there’s the question of filling in the time, as well as children who are used to rigid routines about rides. some families are saying they won’t be able to continue going to Disney, but the new pass was just introduced this month.

I don’t know if there’s a way for a stranger to tell which child may have autism from how they behave in public.

 

[Demetra2]

I agree with the other posts that you are onto something and if you are old fashioned then that is wonderful! Your kids will thank you someday for teaching them manners, self discipline and to be responsible for their actions. It is called having a good character and it is sorely missing in many people today. Mine are grown and have thanked me for teaching them right from wrong. It is truly a very important gift to give your children. Just today my daughter and I were talking about this very subject and she was grateful for my efforts to mold her into a decent upstanding person. Yesterday we were at a very nice restaurant and a young couple with a young child (about 3yrs old) were seated near us. We couldn’t believe how undisciplined the kid was! She threw the food all over the place for fun and the parents barely raised an eyebrow and never tried to stop her. I felt sorry for the waitress and people seated near them. I wonder what their home looks like! It was if the parents just could not be bothered to say “No” to the child. Too much trouble I guess. Very sad.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

thanks. it sounds like it’s a difficult life. especially b/c waiting in one situation doesn’t always translate to waiting somewhere else. the new system does not require the autistic child/adult to go up to the ride and get the time pass, another person can do that. but then there’s the question of filling in the time, as well as children who are used to rigid routines about rides. some families are saying they won’t be able to continue going to Disney, but the new pass was just introduced this month.

I don’t know if there’s a way for a stranger to tell which child may have autism from how they behave in public.

I think sometimes you can have a bit of an idea that a child may have autism, especially if the behaviour is really extreme but I agree with you that usually you can’t tell. So a parent may be doing the absolute best they can and an autistic child may be coping as best they can with a situation and it will look like a ‘normal’ child who is being allowed to get away with murder. It’s very difficult. I think the best thing is to try to think the best of people, hard as that can be at times! I don’t know what’s best for the rides but I do hope the changes don’t make it harder for the people who need something like this. There were so many places we didn’t go and things we didn’t do when I was growing up because it was just too difficult with my autistic sibling.

I think most parents are doing the best they can. The world has changed so much since I was a child. We don’t let kids go out and explore the neighbourhood and play for hours at a time like we used to. We don’t let them out of our sight really, they’re always around and they’re always having to behave. There’s not as much opportunity for kids to ‘let off steam’ any more. I think that’s part of the problem but I don’t know what we can do about it.

I’ve seen kids throwing food around at restaurants too and it’s horrible. But I do wonder if maybe there would be less of that if they had more opportunity to make their own fun and run a bit wild now and then. Lots of people these days won’t even let their kids play in the back yard by themselves as they think it’s too dangerous!

 

[lapislazuli]

I think sometimes you can have a bit of an idea that a child may have autism, especially if the behaviour is really extreme but I agree with you that usually you can’t tell. So a parent may be doing the absolute best they can and an autistic child may be coping as best they can with a situation and it will look like a ‘normal’ child who is being allowed to get away with murder. It’s very difficult. I think the best thing is to try to think the best of people, hard as that can be at times! I don’t know what’s best for the rides but I do hope the changes don’t make it harder for the people who need something like this. There were so many places we didn’t go and things we didn’t do when I was growing up because it was just too difficult with my autistic sibling.

I think most parents are doing the best they can. The world has changed so much since I was a child. We don’t let kids go out and explore the neighbourhood and play for hours at a time like we used to. We don’t let them out of our sight really, they’re always around and they’re always having to behave. There’s not as much opportunity for kids to ‘let off steam’ any more. I think that’s part of the problem but I don’t know what we can do about it.

I’ve seen kids throwing food around at restaurants too and it’s horrible. But I do wonder if maybe there would be less of that if they had more opportunity to make their own fun and run a bit wild now and then. Lots of people these days won’t even let their kids play in the back yard by themselves as they think it’s too dangerous!

that’s what people said, that Disney was their one happy place b/c there was so much else they couldn’t do. unfortunately abuse of the old access card became a huge problem and it was pretty widespread. there are so many people who have some disability (or say they do) and legally Disney can’t ask for proof. I hope your sibling is doing well.

that makes sense about kids not being able to run around and get enough exercise. I think also going out to eat isn’t the treat it used to be decades ago and maybe it’s harder to teach manners.

 

[Serap]

do you think the issues are different for children with disabilities? recently Disney changed its disability accommodation from what was often a skip to the front pass, or at least be put in a much shorter line, to a pass that allows the family to wait the current amount of time outside the line. this change was based on abuse of the pass by able-bodied people and “disabled” “guides” that made the news.

many parents said their kids couldn’t wait in line and wouldn’t be able to wait outside the line due to meltdowns. the biggest response seemed to be from parents of kids with autism who talked about meltdowns and said they differed from tantrums.

I don’t have any knowledge in this area but am wondering if disciplining a child with a disability is harder but can be done, or in some cases isn’t practical/extremely difficult.

There is a special place in Heaven for mothers and fathers who have children with disabilities. If I realize that a child is autistic, I will be sure to smile at the caregiver to let them know it’s ok if their child makes a lot of noise.

My friend’s brother has turets and yells obscenities constantly. It’s not his fault or the parents’ fault.

 

[Serap]

I agree with the other posts that you are onto something and if you are old fashioned then that is wonderful! Your kids will thank you someday for teaching them manners, self discipline and to be responsible for their actions. It is called having a good character and it is sorely missing in many people today. Mine are grown and have thanked me for teaching them right from wrong. It is truly a very important gift to give your children. Just today my daughter and I were talking about this very subject and she was grateful for my efforts to mold her into a decent upstanding person. Yesterday we were at a very nice restaurant and a young couple with a young child (about 3yrs old) were seated near us. We couldn’t believe how undisciplined the kid was! She threw the food all over the place for fun and the parents barely raised an eyebrow and never tried to stop her. I felt sorry for the waitress and people seated near them. I wonder what their home looks like! It was if the parents just could not be bothered to say “No” to the child. Too much trouble I guess. Very sad.

Did you spank? How did you discipline? I would like to learn from an experienced mom.

 

[KCT]

I doubt most parents think of themselves as permissive. They might label others as permissive but not themselves.

In general, I don’t think parents understand that kids need boundaries and natural consequences when those boundaries are crossed.

Why parents think protecting their kids from logical consequences is helpful, I can’t imagine. My parents generation knew it. My generation sort of knew it, but young parents now?

(coming from a former middle school teacher who saw LOTS of protecting)

 

[Pax2u]

I don’t feel that way at all. I see the opposite. Parents overwhelmingly want to control their kids and do so with whatever attempts at coercion, manipulation and threat that they can come up with. I think the majority of our culture is in bondage to the evil one with these attitudes. I very rarely ever see true permissive parenting and when I do, it’s because they simply don’t know what else to do. People know in the deepest level of their heart, that spanking is wrong. They know that yelling is wrong. They know that shaming is wrong. They love their child. But no one shows them what is right or at least they don’t realize that someone is showing them. God shows us. Jesus Christ shows us. He doesn’t do any of those things to us. He provides the true consequences and we need not make them up on our own to discount/over-shadow his truths.

Even the so-called “permissive parents” still hit their kids and take away their toys. They just get confused and don’t know where to go. They aren’t consistent. That’s a good thing, I’d rather a parent be permissive than coercive. The true problem is controlling parents. I think most people are falling for lies in thinking that parenting is so permissive. It’s not.

I found your post confusing…you say a lot of how parents shouldn’t discipline, but now how they should. Can you give specific examples of how you would discipline in situations such as a child misbehaving in a restaurant, a child trashing a store display, a child lying, a child fighting with a sib?