Italian ambassador who "reverted" to Islam-the real story

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Apparently Mr. Cardilli, who was ambassador to the Saudi’s in 2002, had always wanted to see Mecca. Of course as a Catholic he couldn’t go. Non-Muslims found in Mecca get stoned and I don’t mean they get to use drugs. However, he took the risk and snuck in wearing beduin robes. On the way out he was caught. Major diplomatic problem. They didn’t want to kill him, but that’s what Islam says to do. But that’s bad for international relations. They do frown on killing ambassadors. Likewise Italy was embarrassed that he had violated local laws. So, what was the way out? He “converted” on the spot. Then was immediately recalled to Italy. Problem solved. A real conversion? No, I guess he didn’t have the fortitude to be a martyr and refuse to deny Christ. Assuming he was a believer to begin with. The barrier between diplomacy and cowardice was pretty thin. He has kept a low profile since then. It was a dumb thing to do on both counts, but next time a Muslim mentions him as a famous convert enlighten them as to the real reason for his so-called “conversion”. Sorry to rain on their parade, not.
 
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cestusdei:
Apparently Mr. Cardilli, who was ambassador to the Saudi’s in 2002, had always wanted to see Mecca. Of course as a Catholic he couldn’t go. Non-Muslims found in Mecca get stoned and I don’t mean they get to use drugs. However, he took the risk and snuck in wearing beduin robes. On the way out he was caught. Major diplomatic problem. They didn’t want to kill him, but that’s what Islam says to do. But that’s bad for international relations. They do frown on killing ambassadors. Likewise Italy was embarrassed that he had violated local laws. So, what was the way out? He “converted” on the spot. Then was immediately recalled to Italy. Problem solved. A real conversion? No, I guess he didn’t have the fortitude to be a martyr and refuse to deny Christ. Assuming he was a believer to begin with. The barrier between diplomacy and cowardice was pretty thin. He has kept a low profile since then. It was a dumb thing to do on both counts, but next time a Muslim mentions him as a famous convert enlighten them as to the real reason for his so-called “conversion”. Sorry to rain on their parade, not.
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That is a hilarious - and pathetic - “hilariously pathetic” or “pathetically hilarious”, one or the other - story. I, too would like to see Mecca (in the off-season, however) and I don’t know that, were I in his spot, I would not be tempted to don the robes and give it a go. Likely not as I enjoy the way my head is attached to my body, but still…

Do you have a source where there might be more to read? I’d love to hear the rest of the story (particularly what the ex-ambassador is now saying)!
 
Slate did a piece referring to it. In defense of the ambassador he isn’t the first westerner to ever sneak into Mecca. Others have done it, but didn’t get caught. Imagine his consternation when he was caught. That was punishment enough.

PS: I don’t think he is saying anything right now. Probably to busy praying rosaries as his penance.
 
Dear Cestus,

Any reliable source. I want to debunk this story in Indonesian Forum.

Fox
 
“Mmmmmppppaaaaahhhhh!!!” … (that was a long kiss on your fore-head Cestus! 😃 😃 )

Thanks, thankssss a llllottt! 👍

Link please!
 
Sounds like getting paid to convert to Islam. Like my previous post, a lot of third country nationals in Saudi Arabia are converting to Islam because of the way Saudis treat infidels especially Indian, Pakistani, and Filipino. The Saudis do tend to leave us, Anglo-Saxon infidels alone except the terrorists though. People “convert” because mostly for convenient or greed.

I know one of the American infidels who accidently drove through Mecca on his way to Jeddah. He didn’t recogniz that he was lost until he got into the city. Fortunately, nothing happened to him. He told me that there is nothing special about Mecca. I don’t know because I have never been there.
 
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MugenOne:
Sounds like getting paid to convert to Islam. Like my previous post, a lot of third country nationals in Saudi Arabia are converting to Islam because of the way Saudis treat infidels especially Indian, Pakistani, and Filipino. The Saudis do tend to leave us, Anglo-Saxon infidels alone except the terrorists though. People “convert” because mostly for convenient or greed.

I know one of the American infidels who accidently drove through Mecca on his way to Jeddah. He didn’t recogniz that he was lost until he got into the city. Fortunately, nothing happened to him. He told me that there is nothing special about Mecca. I don’t know because I have never been there.
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Of course there’s nothing special about Mecca other than the oven-like heat! A resort hotel in the tropics is a better place!

But in any case, these days one don’t have to actually set foot on a place to see it … the satellite age is here, Saudi Arabian air space is fairly accomodating !!! TEXT DELETED
 
"Italy’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia has converted to Islam, the second time in seven years that an envoy of Rome to the land of Mecca has adopted its religion. Torquato Cardilli, a career diplomat from overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy, revealed his decision on 25 Nov., his 59th birthday.

His official conversion was made on the eve of the Islamic holy fasting month of Ramadan, which began on 16 November in Saudi Arabia. In a press statement, the ambassador expressed his happiness over his reversion to Islam. He said he was fully convinced about the truthfulness of Islam through his regular reading of God’s final revelation, the Holy Qur’an.

The conversion of Cardilli – who is married with two children and speaks Arabic fluently – follows the move to Islam made by Mario Scialoja, Italian ambassador to the Arab kingdom in 1994-95, who has since left the foreign service and is head of Italy’s Muslim League.

Scialoja’s decision came as a ‘shock,’ made while he was Rome’s permanent representative to the United Nations in New York and long before he was posted to Riyadh. Cardilli’s change of faith follows years of study of Islam. A graduate in oriental culture and languages from the University of Naples, Cardilli has spent much of his 33-year diplomatic career in the Muslim world.

Following postings in Sudan, Syria, Iraq and Libya, he took over the embassy in Riyadh in October last year. Cardilli has also served as ambassador to Albania and Tanzania. His move comes barely two months after Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi offended the Muslim world by saying Western Christian civilization was superior to Islam.

Corriere della Sera newspaper said Cardilli has been recalled to Rome ‘`for consultations.’ Some 3,000 to 5,000 Italians have converted to Islam from Catholicism in recent years, according to figures from the Union of Islamic Organizations and Communities."
milligazette.com/Archives/15122001/1512200103.htm

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By the way, was Scialoja too forced to convert to Islam or was payed? he converted while he was still in New York.
 
That’s totally bogus! I’m part of the US diplomatic mission in the kingdom. I work with the military on the daily basis. I can assure you and my fellow Christian brethren that there’s no US soldier converting to Islam. There’s a mosque at our mission and I have never see a single US military personnel nor civilian in it. The mosque is for the TCNs and other local workers. There’s no conversion on free will.

Remember we’re the infidel Crusaders. (well, that’s what we’re called anyway)
 
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raceland:
How come you don’t post links to your stories, unless maybe it’s like eighty percent of your bible (fake stories, expired laws, and science fiction) :cool:
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Well Raceland, as I so often have read on this forum; as Allah said in the Quran, “bring your proof if you are indeed truthful.” Where is your proof of fake stories? Do you have an original Bible so you can show us what is false or altered? Of course not and therein lies the “science fiction” of your claim.

Peace,

George
 
See www.slate.com/id/2059067. It is also in Faith At War by Yaroslav Trofimov. He is an Italian who writes for the Wall Street Journal. I don’t know about the first one who apostacized some years back, but the recent “conversion” was done under duress.

I can’t blame the guy. Here you are in the desert. Miles from any help. Surrounded by angry Islamic religious police. You notice they are collecting rocks and digging a hole. It’s either a mysterious unsolved disappearence or the shahada and a fast exit back to sunny Italy. If the guy had any pc delusions about Islam they were no doubt dispelled at that moment.
 
raceland,

An Italian ambassador converted?! Say it isn’t so! Well, he must be right, he’s an Italian ambassador! :rolleyes:

Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. So what? You know, I have never been sure why anyone would use the old “this man did this” argument. It’s like our fathers and grandfathers asking us “If all your friend’s jumped off a bridge would you jump to?”

Care to enlighten me and explain the relevance of this one man’s actions on Judeo-Christian Islamic affairs raceland?

Peace,

George
 
George Waters:
raceland,

An Italian ambassador converted?! Say it isn’t so! Well, he must be right, he’s an Italian ambassador! :rolleyes:

Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. So what? You know, I have never been sure why anyone would use the old “this man did this” argument. It’s like our fathers and grandfathers asking us “If all your friend’s jumped off a bridge would you jump to?”

Care to enlighten me and explain the relevance of this one man’s actions on Judeo-Christian Islamic affairs raceland?

Peace,

George
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Peace George

Perhaps that question needs to be addressed to cestusdei who started the topic in the first place, claiming that the man didnt truly conver to Islam (or converted by force). Raceland was just simply responding to the claim.
 
Faith101,

Perhaps I should have made my post a bit more general or made no post at all. We have both seen this scenario played out many, many times by people of both faiths to no avail. Rebuke to remember even-handedness noted. Thank you.

Peace,

George
 
Just because someone converts to a religion doesn’t make that religion true. Muslims however have this habit of claiming that so and so joined and therefore so should you. One guy they claim was a bishop who converted was in fact just a priest. They usually overstate their case. That’s what happened here. An Italian ambassador did something dumb. When caught and given the choice between being stoned to death or muttering the Islamic creed he chose the latter. It’s a pity since so many Christians were martyred rather then renounce their faith, but we don’t know what kind of faith he actually had at the time.

Muslims do convert to Christianity, but they have to hide it. The penalty is death. Sometimes Muslims moan about how their American family was angry when they became Muslim. Well, at least we don’t stone them. I suspect if there was full religious freedom and access to real information about Christianity then many Muslims might join us. That is why they don’t have those freedoms. They are afraid.
 
cestusdei said:
Just because someone converts to a religion doesn’t make that religion true. Muslims however have this habit of claiming that so and so joined and therefore so should you
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The fact is, Islam is the fastest growing religion…in the USA (where there is NO force) and worldwide. Thats not the reason why anyone should become Muslim, however. A person should become Muslim when they firmly believe that there is no diety worthy of worship but Allah alone and that Mohamed is is his final messenger.
One guy they claim was a bishop who converted was in fact just a priest. They usually overstate their case. That’s what happened here. An Italian ambassador did something dumb. When caught and given the choice between being stoned to death or muttering the Islamic creed he chose the latter. It’s a pity since so many Christians were martyred rather then renounce their faith, but we don’t know what kind of faith he actually had at the time
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do you have a reliable link to back up your claims about his conversion?
Muslims do convert to Christianity, but they have to hide it. The penalty is death. Sometimes Muslims moan about how their American family was angry when they became Muslim. Well, at least we don’t stone them. I suspect if there was full religious freedom and access to real information about Christianity then many Muslims might join us
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. That is why they don’t have those freedoms. They are afraid.

In America, muslims and non-muslims have full access to all kinds of information regarding religion. THe USA is not an Islamic state, therefore the death penalty would not be carried out. So really, there is nothign for a muslim to fear by leaving Islam…he/she can practice what she likes, and the American government will protect them.

Now, why is it, that in this country, the opposite is happening. Non-muslims are becomming Muslim, and the number is increasing day by day.

Having said all of that…numbers dont really matter. Personally, I would still be Muslim, inshAllah, if I was the last Muslim on earth. I would never trade clarity for confusion. May Allah guide us all.
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You can find the hoax at your friendly www.answering-islam.org website under Abu Ishaq who was an alleged bishop. In fact this is a hoax commonly used by Muslims.

The Mormons claim to be the “fastest growing”. Everyone does. Muslims have told me that 3 billion people are Muslim. Yeah right. You always inflate your figures. In the US in Virginia a conference of former Muslims who are now Christian was held. Security was tight and they had to use false identities. That’s here in the USA! I went to a Mosque and found anti-Christian literature. Not to mention anti-Semitism. Frankly I don’t have a single family member or friend who has become Muslim. You do pick up some in prison, but when they get out is a different story. TEXT DELETED
 
Btw, there is also mentioned that the Saudi’s tried to buy American converts during the first gulf war. The going price was $30,000.
 
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