Italian ambassador who "reverted" to Islam-the real story

[Semper_Fi_1]

cestusdei:

You can find the hoax at your friendly www.answering-islam.org website under Abu Ishaq who was an alleged bishop. In fact this is a hoax commonly used by Muslims.

The Mormons claim to be the “fastest growing”. Everyone does. Muslims have told me that 3 billion people are Muslim. Yeah right. You always inflate your figures. In the US in Virginia a conference of former Muslims who are now Christian was held. Security was tight and they had to use false identities. That’s here in the USA! I went to a Mosque and found anti-Christian literature. Not to mention anti-Semitism. Frankly I don’t have a single family member or friend who has become Muslim. You do pick up some in prison, but when they get out is a different story.

Not only that, but apparently Allah’s standards are low on who can be a Muslim… Say this prayer and you’re a Muslim for life, even if you renounce it. Baptists weren’t the first ones to think of something like that apparently . As to the 3 billion Muslims, well we know that’s a joke. Mormons claim to be the fastest growing religion, so do Seventh-day Adventists, as well as Jehovahs Witnesses, etc. If the Catholic Church were ever to go down to 12 again, then it’d still be the Catholic Church.

 

[raceland]

cestusdei,

this is what your link says

“Going native: Italy’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia has converted to Islam after a year in the posting—the second Italian ambassador to Riyadh to make the switch. The news was reported in two Saudi dailies, although the ambassador has refused to confirm or deny the story. According to Spain’s El País, Torquato Cardilli has always had an interest in the Muslim world, but he decided to embrace Islam on an undercover trip to Mecca (non-Muslims are not allowed to visit the holy city). The news apparently caused “stupor and a certain discomfort” at the Italian foreign ministry.”

I don’t see where force, stonning and a hole being dug in the desert to kill the man.

two, if you don’t like discussing this topic then why did you open the thread, everyone was cheering in the first couple of posts.

as for the US troops who converted to Islam in Saudi Arabia during and after the Gulf war, no one denies it. But i heard some claims that the Saudis payed them money to convert and similar accusations.

Semper Fi, this is no fiction…and by the way, this is not the first time it happens. In year 1258 Baghdad fell to Hulegu and the Mongols. 800,000 citizens of the city were slaughtered. The independent, medieval caliphate ended. The Christian West was at first jubilant at the advance of the Mongols whom they expected would convert to Christianity and apply pressure on the Muslim empire from the East. To the horror of the Christians, the Mongols converted to Islam instead.

Are you going to claim that the Mongols where also payed or forced to convert to Islam

Oh and George, just to make it clear, I don’t care if you wanna jump off the bridge or not , also the Qur’an doesn’t beg people to convert to Islam

[Surah 18:29]
“And say: “The truth is from your Lord” Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve Verily, We have prepared for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqâ (resting place)!”

Maybe you should try bungee jumping it’s safer

 

[Cyber_Knight]

cestusdei:

Btw, there is also mentioned that the Saudi’s tried to buy American converts during the first gulf war. The going price was $30,000.

$30,000 is alot of money. We could just make a fake convert, see mecca and set back to homeland as Jesus follower… thus you got 2 advantages… Salvation and Money…hahaha kidding.

Seriously if that news was true it’s very saddening. As people embrace religion base on their faith to God not money or material matters.

 

[DeExupery]

Hehe…more interesting story from Russia about the fastest growing religion:
I have to be thankful for Beautiful Maria for this:

from www.faithfreedom.org
around 2000 moslems in Russia converted to Christianity (may be due to the cruelness of Beslan).

 

[Cyber_Knight]

DeExupery:

Hehe…more interesting story from Russia about the fastest growing religion:
I have to be thankful for Beautiful Maria for this:

from www.faithfreedom.org
around 2000 moslems in Russia converted to Christianity (may be due to the cruelness of Beslan).

DeExupery
Could you please provide specific link. I tried to find it but there’s a lot of articles there. Thank you.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

raceland:

Semper Fi, this is no fiction…and by the way, this is not the first time it happens. In year 1258 Baghdad fell to Hulegu and the Mongols. 800,000 citizens of the city were slaughtered. The independent, medieval caliphate ended. The Christian West was at first jubilant at the advance of the Mongols whom they expected would convert to Christianity and apply pressure on the Muslim empire from the East. To the horror of the Christians, the Mongols converted to Islam instead.

If this is true, it should be easy to pick up a story from a reputable news source, i.e. Reuters, BBC, CNN, Fox, etc.

Please backup with facts. Thank you.

 

[MugenOne]

Hulegu **did not **convert over to Islam after he invaded Iraq. Ghazan (some 80 years later), after listening to his advisor (Rashid Al-din), converted to Islam. After that, he mercilessly destroyed Buddhist temples and chased Buddhists out of his country or converted them to Islam. The Christians were affected too. What did Al-Din get for his return? Rashid al-Din owned large estates in the Caucasus and Asia Minor. The administration of the state (during 0ljeitu’s reign) had become almost a private monopoly of his family: of his fourteen sons, eight were governors of provinces, including the whole of western Iran, Georgia, Iraq, and the greater part of what is now Turkey. It was greed and power (fearing an uprise from Muslim majority) not religion that got this men all enlightened up.

Yes, tt does pay to convert.

raceland:

Semper Fi, this is no fiction…and by the way, this is not the first time it happens. In year 1258 Baghdad fell to Hulegu and the Mongols. 800,000 citizens of the city were slaughtered. The independent, medieval caliphate ended. The Christian West was at first jubilant at the advance of the Mongols whom they expected would convert to Christianity and apply pressure on the Muslim empire from the East. To the horror of the Christians, the Mongols converted to Islam instead.

 

[ben_dy]

I could never find any information - even the 2001 Slate piece referenced here - that told ‘the rest of the story’: from everything I’ve found, the Italian ambassador mentioned was born into Islam, converted to Christianity, and ‘re-converted’ to Islam when an ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

No doubt there was some embarrassment for the Italian government but I now fail to see what the ‘stink’ could be about: I believe, for instance, that the majority of U.S. ambassadors to the Vatican have been… Catholic!

I found it an amusing story in the original incarnation because the man seemed to be ‘caught’ between normal human curiosity (the desire to see a place that some consider sacred) and religious ‘bans’ that place areas off-limits to non-believers. I am very much in the former category and, when in Jerusalem, walked all over and around the area of the Qubbat As-Sakhrah despite the warning to observant Jews not to do so, less one set foot in the, again, forbidden sacred space of, the unknown spot of what might have been the area of the Holy of Holies. Not being an observant Jew, this didn’t bother me and I genuinely enjoyed the beauty of the mashhad: hence my interest in seeing Mecca and other sites sacred to other world religions - man tends to create the most beautiful work of which he is capable when it is dedicated to the glory of God.

But getting back to the ambassador and the original post: I can’t find anything that actually verifies the ‘embarrassing’ part of the story! And it seems that others have not been able to find anything, either, so this thread has degenerated from an amusing anecdote to a he said/she said about which religion has the most converts…

 

[DeExupery]

Sorry Cyber!..2 million…

interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=513

Fox

 

[George_Waters]

raceland:

Oh and George, just to make it clear, I don’t care if you wanna jump off the bridge or not , also the Qur’an doesn’t beg people to convert to Islam

[Surah 18:29]
“And say: “The truth is from your Lord” Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve Verily, We have prepared for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqâ (resting place)!”

raceland,

I don’t plan on jumping off any bridges anytime soon and suggest you don’t either, as I believe both our faiths teach against suicide. (Unless of course it is jihad, but I guess that is different, huh?)

The Quran may not beg people to convert, but why beg when you can tax, intimidate or kill non-believers (or anyone you just don’t like)?

Surah 18:29, as presented by you, is pretty much the same as the Christian concept of spreading the good news of God and those that refuse to believe go to hell. Modern Christian’s are content to allow people to reap what they have sown, but many, many Muslims seems to want to take a very active hand in the reaping.

Peace,

George

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

In America, muslims and non-muslims have full access to all kinds of information regarding religion. THe USA is not an Islamic state, therefore the death penalty would not be carried out. So really, there is nothign for a muslim to fear by leaving Islam…he/she can practice what she likes, and the American government will protect them.

Of course you think it’s okay for non-muslims to become Muslims, but shouldn’t Muslims who want to leave Islam have the same freedom to do so?

Now, why is it, that in this country, the opposite is happening. Non-muslims are becomming Muslim, and the number is increasing day by day.

Where’s the proof? And even so, that still does not make Islam the true religion.

Having said all of that…numbers dont really matter. Personally, I would still be Muslim, inshAllah, if I was the last Muslim on earth. I would never trade clarity for confusion. May Allah guide us all.

Faith, you talk of Islam as being very clear, but I’ve heard other Muslims on this forum say that most Muslims are not interpreting Islam correctly. If that is so, where’s the clarity you mention?

Vickie

 

[JimO]

Even if the ambassador did truly convert, what does that say? And, even if 5,000 American soldiers converted to Islam, what does that have to do with what is true and what is false? As far as using “the fastest growing religion” as some kind of testimonial to the truthfulness of said religion, I offer the following quote (I do not remember the author), “The Truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces.” In fact, people are more predisposed, through their sinful nature, to believe falsehoods over the Truth. “The broad way leads to destruction and many are those who travel it.”

It cracks me up that we mere humans act as though our own personal belief in God somehow validates Him. Jesus offers all of us salvation and eternal life. His sacrifice is sufficient for all of humanity and stands on its own merit. Nothing depends on the number of people who choose to follow Christ or the number who choose to deny Him. Aside from my concern for lost souls and God’s desire that all be saved, I don’t have much concern over alleged conversions to Islam, Mormonism, New Age, or anything else. My job is to be a faithful planter of seeds and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

 

[Faith101]

JimO:

Even if the ambassador did truly convert, what does that say? And, even if 5,000 American soldiers converted to Islam, what does that have to do with what is true and what is false? As far as using “the fastest growing religion” as some kind of testimonial to the truthfulness of said religion, I offer the following quote (I do not remember the author), “The Truth has nothing to do with the number of people it convinces.” In fact, people are more predisposed, through their sinful nature, to believe falsehoods over the Truth. “The broad way leads to destruction and many are those who travel it.”

It cracks me up that we mere humans act as though our own personal belief in God somehow validates Him. Jesus offers all of us salvation and eternal life. His sacrifice is sufficient for all of humanity and stands on its own merit. Nothing depends on the number of people who choose to follow Christ or the number who choose to deny Him. Aside from my concern for lost souls and God’s desire that all be saved, I don’t have much concern over alleged conversions to Islam, Mormonism, New Age, or anything else. My job is to be a faithful planter of seeds and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

JimO

Re read my post. The comment about Islam being the fastest growing religion in America was to argue the point someone was making that people are *forced * to be Muslim.

Islam is the truth whether there is one person or one trillion people following it.

 

[cestusdei]

If I started my own religion and converted 10 people today then percentage wise I could claim to be the fastest growing religion in the world. I think This Rock did an expose on the “fastest growing” claim. You can bend it around any which way. A bit like claiming New Coke was a success. To me if you have to lie about your numbers that is a sign of insecurity.

 

[Faith101]

cestusdei:

If I started my own religion and converted 10 people today then percentage wise I could claim to be the fastest growing religion in the world. I think This Rock did an expose on the “fastest growing” claim. You can bend it around any which way. A bit like claiming New Coke was a success. To me if you have to lie about your numbers that is a sign of insecurity.

I really shouldnt say it again…bc i said already i believe 4 times on this very thread…but here we gooooo

someone on the forum said “people are forced to be Muslim” i replied “how do you explain the conversion rate in the USA” then, not knowing what to say, some of you said “ohh numbers dont mean anything, thats insecurity” blahhhh blahhhh blahh instead of addressing the issue.

I’ll make sure to ask the converts I know how much saudia arabia payed them, at least we can get a good laugh out of it

 

[DeExupery]

Dear Faith,

someone on the forum said “people are forced to be Muslim” i replied “how do you explain the conversion rate in the USA” then, not knowing what to say, some of you said “ohh numbers dont mean anything, thats insecurity” blahhhh blahhhh blahh instead of addressing the issue

Besides money, there are other issues that make westerners convert:

1. Marriage.
2. Reading the soft translation of Quran (have you read the surah 9:29? A thread opened by mango) and feel interested.
3. Bitterness to Christianity.
   But coversion also comes from Islam to Christianity, Buddhists, etc, etc.
   Only Islam seems to be angry when someone leaves Islam. In Islamic Country, you could get killed for stop believing. I never hear any Vatican Citizen leaving Catholic to be killed.

Fox

 

[Cyber_Knight]

DeExupery:

Dear Faith,

Besides money, there are other issues that make westerners convert:

1. Marriage.
2. Reading the soft translation of Quran (have you read the surah 9:29? A thread opened by mango) and feel interested.
3. Bitterness to Christianity.
   But coversion also comes from Islam to Christianity, Buddhists, etc, etc.
   Only Islam seems to be angry when someone leaves Islam. In Islamic Country, you could get killed for stop believing. I never hear any Vatican Citizen leaving Catholic to be killed.

Fox

Marriage is the best way to convert people. I know several people convert just because Islam not allowed couple married with different faith. Is this Quranic?

 

[ronald]

i don’t know if the killer of the converts in Iran follow the Qur’an or not. But i believe killing the people who convert is a sin. And we all have to admit that the freedom of religion in Islamic countries is worse than in western countries whether it is done by the goverment or its people. Luckily there are predominant non-muslim places in Indonesia such as Bali, North Sulawesi, East Nusa Tenggara, some parts of Maluku Islands and Papua. There will never be an Islamic country of Indonesia, otherwise those places will be new countries.

 

[losav]

For Cafeteria Catholics in the Kingdom, most converts have little roots to the Catholic faith… those who seldom attend mass.

 

[JimO]

Faith101:

Re read my post. The comment about Islam being the fastest growing religion in America was to argue the point someone was making that people are *forced *to be Muslim.

No need for me to re-read your post. I don’t believe that I quoted you or even addressed my comments to you. I’ve heard the “fastest growing” claim made by many Muslims, Mormans and others as some kind of validation for their religious beliefs. I was simply making my own point in light of the overall discussion.

Faith101:

Islam is the truth whether there is one person or one trillion people following it.

That was exactly the point of my post in regards to Jesus Christ and the salvation He offers all mankind through His atoning sacrifice. He would have gone through it all if I or you (or anyone else) were the only person needing salvation.