Italian women appeal to Pope Francis to end priests' celibacy vow

[PrayRosary]

If Rome thinks the Anglican Vicar can become a Roman Catholic priest and keep his wife and children (Anglicanoreum Coetibus) because he has seen the light so to speak later on in life, why don’t we Catholics applaud the man for taking that brave step, did anyone who walked out of the Church ask themselves, what obstacles did this man have to go through to leave the Anglican Church to become Catholic, to be thrown out of his home which belonged to the Anglican Church, was ignored by most of his Anglican friends, was no longer an Anglican Vicar (Minister) got hate mail, and no job to boot as he now had left his Anglican Ministry behind him and become a layperson, all this in order to become a Catholic , had to at least get an ordinary job for 2 years, before applying to become a Catholic priest, which he did, he fought the good fight and was now a Catholic and a Catholic priest, hurrah, but what do the Christian Catholics do walk out of the Church when this new Father was saying or before saying Mass, We are back into Rome during Nero when the Christians were being persecuted, except this time its us doing the persecution of this poor priest who gave up so much, wept telling the Lord he did not want to be a Catholic But he saw now that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and had no say in the matter to follow Our Lord in the Catholic Church hell or high water.

I wonder would the people who walked out, what they would have been like in Nero’s Circus when the Lions were told go eat the Christians - cowards everyone of them.
Shameful and despicable

Very nice post. I appreciate people who look at issues from both sides before making conjectures. This is a trait that I need to work on.

 

[twf]

You make a distinction between “vow” and “promise”. Assuming that is an ecclesiastically recognised one, Catholic Answers says that priests and bishops “vow” celibacy in their tract “Celibacy and the Priesthood”.

There is indeed a distinction, and an important one at that. Secular priests are not religious and are not in vows at all. Vows have a very particular meaning under canon law. Secular priests are no more free to take a wife or engage in sexual activity (unless married!) than are religious, but it is a matter of a promise to obey the law of the Church and not a vow. Catholic Answers may have been using the term “vow” in the looser day-to-day use of the term, rather than the canonical use. Friar David backs me up in this post: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3088365&postcount=7

 

[seanman611]

I agree totally. In my area (upstate NY, Ulster County) there is an Anglican priest who was admitted into the Roman Catholic Church a few years ago because we have a serious lack of priests here. He has a wife and children. The diocese bought him a large house to accommodate his wife and children. Huge numbers of people left the two churches he was appointed to “pastor”. Personally, I think celibacy is an absolute necessity in priests and religious for many reasons, both spiritual and practical. I would not be a parishioner in a Roman Catholic Church where there was a married priest. Now: I was raised in the Latin tradition and didn’t much like the changes made by Vatican II so this is my personal opinion. But I am far from alone.

I don’t think that whether or not a priest/pastor is married is always going to inhibit his ability to be a good priest. Some people, regardless of marital status, are just not very good time managers or are not very organized. I’m sure many priests, Anglican and otherwise, would take offense to the idea that being married is always going to lead to a less effective ministry or inhibit their ability to lead. It may be true in some cases, but certainly not all.

 

[JorduSpeaks]

I used to be open to the idea of priests being married, but I just don’t think this is the right time for it.

First, it should come as no surprise that the vast majority of Catholics (indeed, people in general) are sincere, but uneducated. As such, the Church must recognize the possibility that many among the congregation may view the priest as superior in the eyes of God. Among these people, an innocent expression of romantic interest may be viewed by its recipient as carrying the implied threat of retaliation should the interest be rejected. Additionally, some deluded individuals may seek out a relationship with a priest in order to enhance their own perceived status with God. In short, a priest seeking out a relationship is inappropriate for much the same reasons as a politician or employer.

Additionally, one must keep in mind that establishing a relationship in the modern world means adhering to some very un-Christian codes of behavior. Even discounting sexual expectations that may or may not be present, modern dating is very much a dance of deception. In order to manage the ludicrously unrealistic expectations if others, people are often pressured to lie about facts of their life (income, past relationships, etc.), interpersonal desires (don’t seem too needy or too disinterested, etc.), or even perceptions of the other person. Among men, such tactics as playing up female insecurity have become practically cliche. It’s not nice, but it works, and I don’t want to think of my priest as a manipulative person.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

In one example supporting the anti-celibacy campaigners a prior at a Cistercian abbey near Milan has told how he was advised by his fellow monks to keep an affair he was having under wraps when he revealed he was in love with a woman.

“Do what you want, but keep it hidden,” Father Alberto Stucchi said he was advised, according to the Italian newspaper La Stampa.

It isn’t for me to say whether or not priests should be able to marry; that’s up to the Pope (and I suppose the cardinals and bishops), but I will say that the material I quoted seems to be an example of absolutely shocking disobedience!

That’s twice now this week that I have read shocking material. First I read about a dog receiving Holy Communion, and now this!

What in the world is going on???

 

[CutlerB]

The media doesn’t care whether priests are celibate or not.
It’s the majority of Catholics, polls show, who think priests should be allowed to marry and “push” for this.
The media merely reports what the people and polls say.

.

Then why are there so many articles that are worded in such a way that suggests otherwise?

 

[Rolltide]

I used to be open to the idea of priests being married, but I just don’t think this is the right time for it.

First, it should come as no surprise that the vast majority of Catholics (indeed, people in general) are sincere, but uneducated. As such, the Church must recognize the possibility that many among the congregation may view the priest as superior in the eyes of God. Among these people, an innocent expression of romantic interest may be viewed by its recipient as carrying the implied threat of retaliation should the interest be rejected. Additionally, some deluded individuals may seek out a relationship with a priest in order to enhance their own perceived status with God. In short, a priest seeking out a relationship is inappropriate for much the same reasons as a politician or employer.

Additionally, one must keep in mind that establishing a relationship in the modern world means adhering to some very un-Christian codes of behavior. Even discounting sexual expectations that may or may not be present, modern dating is very much a dance of deception. In order to manage the ludicrously unrealistic expectations if others, people are often pressured to lie about facts of their life (income, past relationships, etc.), interpersonal desires (don’t seem too needy or too disinterested, etc.), or even perceptions of the other person. Among men, such tactics as playing up female insecurity have become practically cliche. It’s not nice, but it works, and I don’t want to think of my priest as a manipulative person.

Just to clarify this, if the celibacy rule were lifted, it would allow married men to become priests. However, they must be married PRIOR to their ordination. Once ordained, even without the celibacy requirement, a priest may NOT get married, and if a priest’s wife dies, the priest must then remain celibate the remainder of his life.

 

[Tigg]

The media doesn’t care whether priests are celibate or not.
It’s the majority of Catholics, polls show, who think priests should be allowed to marry and “push” for this.
The media merely reports what the people and polls say.

It likewise is true that the Church does not cave into the majority opinion of her members. Huge numbers of Catholics in the U.S. use ABC but the Church consistently teaches this is immoral. Holy Mother Church, always defending the words of Christ, can only be the beacon which points the way, regardless of polls, dissidents and progressive theological spin of which the liberal media fully supports and promulgates. Celibacy rules could change and certain camps believe we are headed that way. We pray God’s intercession to the contrary.

 

[vsedriver]

The media doesn’t care whether priests are celibate or not.
It’s the majority of Catholics, polls show, who think priests should be allowed to marry and “push” for this.
The media merely reports what the people and polls say.

.

The media does care. And polls don’t always reflect what you think they do. Sometimes the wording leads to a wrong answer. Just asking someone if they are Catholic on a poll doesn’t mean they are actually Catholic. I know a lot of people who claim to be Catholic who never set foot in a church. They think of themselves as Catholic by a cultural connection or family history.

check those polls against Catholics who are active in the church and you will see very different results.

 

[Elizium23]

Many mainstream media outlets (let’s not paint them all with the same brush) do care about priestly celibacy, because they understand several things. One, it is a hot-button topic that will guarantee them readership/viewership from many Catholics who care one way or the other. The OP of this thread has proven that by reposting with a link. Second, these media outlets understand that the Church is called to be “in the world, but not of the world” and they can’t stand the truth of this. Those who want an end to priestly celibacy want to destroy the institution of the Church, brick by brick, and one way to do that is to destroy the discipline of celibacy as many view it as integral to the priesthood and part of hard-identity Catholicism. Also, many view celibacy as a root cause of sexual abuse of minors, while there is no basis for this accusation, as well as plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Now there are plenty of Eastern Catholics who will come out and point and say that that is not in their tradition. That is all well and good for Eastern Catholics, and I commend them on keeping and restoring the traditions proper to their Rites, but they should likewise recognize that the Latin Church has her own traditions and one that is greatly honored and respected is priestly celibacy.

I, for one, hope it never goes away, as a mark of identity on Catholics in the West, as we stand against the tide of secularism and liberalism. The mainstream media can whine and wail about it all they want, but they are not in control of the Church, that is the realm of the Holy Father and the Holy Spirit

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Have to remember that priestly celibacy is not a doctrinal matter, it is a papal matter. The Church did not rule out married priests for most of the first millenium of its existence. There are various secular reasons advanced why the Church chose to make celibacy a universal requirement for the priesthood, but I won’t go there. Will just say that Eastern Catholics and Orthodox appear to have a good handle on this.

Also it has already been possible for at least a few decades now for married men to become deacons; it’s just that a single man becoming a deacon cannot marry following his ordination. Further the Church is allowing married former Anglican priests to become Catholic priests while still married. So I don’t think it would be that big a step toward married priests in general. A new rule might be that married priests are okay, but bishops and higher still need to be celibate and unmarried, while the consecrated orders and communities could still have their vows of chastity. That’s something I could agree with. My married uncle is a deacon, his wife was very supportive of his work there, he thinks he would liked to have had an opportunity to become a regular priest, but that was of course not in the cards and he is too old now to do it were Francis to make the change.