Italian women take legal action over graves of aborted children marked with mothers' names

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We publish the names of people who are complicit in the murder of others outside of the womb on TV and in newspapers. I honestly don’t see a lot of difference here.
 
I am 100% pro life - but the difference is that abortion is legal by law. I don’t support attaching a person’s name out in public for their sin. Doctor/patient confidentiality deserves the same protected privacy as the Confessional.
 
Raxus said:
There is no “right” to murder children, in or out of the womb.

Ever.
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Leaving aside the word ‘murder’ which is unhelpful in discussion on this issue there is indeed a right, in law, to abortion in virtually every country in the world and always has been. In the past and in some extreme jurisdictions this right was or is restricted to abortions needed to save the life of the mother. This is more liberal than the Church would support in my understanding but none-the-less the point remains: there is indeed a right to abortion in law.
 
“Raxus said:
We publish the names of people who are complicit in the murder of others outside of the womb on TV and in newspapers. I honestly don’t see a lot of difference here.

Before police or media investigation? Before it is determined that formal charges are to be laid? In other words before the evidence of complicity has, at least to a degree, been sifted?

And what if women are wrongly named (and there is every chance at least some are)? Will those who do so make a public announcement retracting their accusations and publicly clear them as police and courts do - and as news media must if they are in error?
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So am I. They are little people, they deserve a permanent place to rest. They deserve to be identified.

If women are upset their names are attached to their children, I don’t know what else to say besides, those are your children despite the circumstances that lead you to choose to abort them.

We should not get to erase the record of people because they are inconvenient, or because some people would rather they be forgotten. That further dehumanizes what children in the womb are. They are human beings.

Women should not be harrassed because they made a bad decision. Their children do not deserve to be forgotten and nameless because their mothers made a bad decision.
 
It would have been better to just use the mother’s Christian names, I think. “Daughter of Anna”. “Son of Chiara”.
 
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Just imagine if this technique can be said to save children? Of course, that probably could not be proven.
 
FiveLinden said:
Leaving aside the word ‘murder’ which is unhelpful in discussion on this issue
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Yeah, trying to support abortion generally plummets like a plane shot out of the sky if this simple, hard fact is ignored.
FiveLinden said:
there is indeed a right, in law, to abortion in virtually every country in the world and always has been.
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No there hasn’t always been; and something being enshrined in law doesn’t make it a right, or make it good.
FiveLinden said:
In the past and in some extreme jurisdictions this right was or is restricted to abortions needed to save the life of the mother.
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Murder to save another life is still murder.
FiveLinden said:
This is more liberal than the Church would support in my understanding but none-the-less the point remains: there is indeed a right to abortion in law.
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There’s a right in law to stone women to death in some countries for looking at another man in the wrong way, too. You’ll need to defend that too, if something being enshrined in the law is all it takes to make it good and proper.
 
We are talking about other human beings here not a letter, they didn’t even have a right to have a life.
 
Raxus said:
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FiveLinden:
Leaving aside the word ‘murder’ which is unhelpful in discussion on this issue
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Yeah, trying to support abortion generally plummets like a plane shot out of the sky if this simple, hard fact is ignored.
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It actually entrenches positions it does nothing productive, if I were to call you “forced-birth” it doesn’t really help further any discussion does it?

They aren’t productive in the short term either. It’s just bad activism, it doesn’t further anything and allows the pro-choice side to present pro-lifers as extremist and easy to dismiss.

As for the OP, I’m fairly certain that this would constitute a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Specifically Article 8, “The right to respect for family and private life”. Whoever did this could be up for serious penalties.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
Whoever did this could be up for serious penalties.
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This is Italy we’re talking about 😉

The ECHR would only adjudicate on a Government failure of some sort, for example if the women could show that the problem arose from the maze of laws about privacy in Italy, they could take the Italian Government to the ECHR. The anti-abortion campaigners would have to have contravened Italian law for it to get that far - any punishment would be for the Italians, not the ECHR.
 
I assumed hospitals were state run in Italy and, if it could be proven that was the source, therefore would constitute a breach. I would caveat that I know almost nothing about the Italian healthcare system beyond the fact that its universal.
 
I could go through a phone book and pick out names of random women and put them on crosses. Chances are some of them have had abortions and many have not.

Who’s to fact check the veracity of these names on the cross?
 
ZemD said:
If women are upset their names are attached to their children, I don’t know what else to say besides, those are your children despite the circumstances that lead you to choose to abort them.
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How do you know for sure that these women whose names are written on the crosses really did abort their child?

You have no way of knowing unless you have access to confidential information.

I see this as calumny to be honest.
 
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I don’t know that. The article does not state that any women bringing the lawsuit are upset because their names were used and they did not have abortions.

From what I read the woman are upset because they did have abortions and wanted their babies thrown in the garbage and are offended that someone would bury and identify them.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
I would caveat that I know almost nothing about the Italian healthcare system beyond the fact that its universal.
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My observation was more about the maze of bureaucracy that would surround a determination of responsibility and quite what position over privacy issues (national v’s adoption of EU data protection initiatives) the Italian Government might have arrived at.

Given the speedy nature of the Italian courts, it could be that our grandchildren might, in their old age, know the truth.
 
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Are these all women whose names are on those crosses or only some?

As I said before that I could take names from a phone book, write them on crosses and chances are some have had abortions.

I still think it’s calumny.
 
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