It's all God's plan. Really?

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Hello everyone. As we all know, we live in a world far from perfect. Often there are unnatural deaths, bankruptcies, illnesses, breakups, and … you name it! When someone is going through difficulties like these, people around him/her will come and say something comfortable as an act of love. The problem, though, is that they often say things like “it’s God’s plan”, “God must have done it for good” and “God is pleased in making that happen”. These words may ease the person in trouble by letting him/her trust God. But they bother me a lot. How can we say God actively plans bad things to happen (especially with no clear reason)? For example, a victim is murdered by a robber. We know that God always has good plans for the family and friends of the victim, but how can it be said that God finds pleasure in actively planning the murder to happen? Shouldn’t it be merely work of evil and man’s free will rather than a plan of God? Thank you all!
 
Hello everyone. As we all know, we live in a world far from perfect. Often there are unnatural deaths, bankruptcies, illnesses, breakups, and … you name it! When someone is going through difficulties like these, people around him/her will come and say something comfortable as an act of love. The problem, though, is that they often say things like “it’s God’s plan”, “God must have done it for good” and “God is pleased in making that happen”. These words may ease the person in trouble by letting him/her trust God. But they bother me a lot. How can we say God actively plans bad things to happen (especially with no clear reason)? For example, a victim is murdered by a robber. We know that God always has good plans for the family and friends of the victim, but how can it be said that God finds pleasure in actively planning the murder to happen? Shouldn’t it be merely work of evil and man’s free will rather than a plan of God? Thank you all!
Agreed. It might be more comforting to say that God often takes evil and turns it to His good purposes.

Jon
 
poptown;
For example, a victim is murdered by a robber. We know that God always has good plans for the family and friends of the victim,
This life is not the final solution, God can always raise the victim and family to a greater good life after death. I wonder how a merciful and forgiving God deals with the murderer, after all he can put right what the murderer has done. God’s ways are not our ways,

Blessings

Eric
 
Agreed. It might be more comforting to say that God often takes evil and turns it to His good purposes.

Jon
I agree with JonNC. Just look at scripture. The evil that Judas committed by betraying Our Lord because of greed; lead to our salvation by Our Lord’s death and resurrection. Evil is never greater than God.
 
How can we say God actively plans bad things to happen (especially with no clear reason)? For example, a victim is murdered by a robber. We know that God always has good plans for the family and friends of the victim, but how can it be said that God finds pleasure in actively planning the murder to happen? Shouldn’t it be merely work of evil and man’s free will rather than a plan of God? Thank you all!
[BIBLEDRB]Romans 8:28[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]James 1:17[/BIBLEDRB]

So… in your post I see two things which might be causing confusion: 1. We don’t know the mind of God or how He works… and we might not supposed to be able in some circumstances. If we pray to God and ask Him “why?”, maybe it is His will to answer that prayer with a negative answer. Maybe He doesn’t want us to know, or we’ll never know while on Earth.
  1. All good things come from God. So, either our definition of good is different from His… or else it wasn’t a good thing, thus innately coming from our fallen sinful nature, or the Devil.
We might want a job, or worldly success. Or in your example… a safe family. That might not be the Will of God. We should always pray, therefore, “be it done unto me according to Your Will”, just as Jesus did in the garden.

What if God wanted us to be crucified? It was God’s Will in Jesus’ case, and in Peter’s case, and many others. Jesus and Peter weren’t exactly wanting to be crucified, but they recognized that it was the Will of God.

What if God wanted you to sacrifice your first-born son, as is the case with Abraham?
 
bad things to happen (especially with no clear reason)?
Also, remember, God came incarnate as man in the person of His Son Jesus who suffered the ultimate price even though he was infinitely innocent. Though the purpose and “value” of suffering may not be clear, we know he went through the gauntlet first to show the way, and we trust him. This life is but a blink of an eye. That’s why the Psalmist prayed that he could see how short is this tormenting pilgrimage of terrestrial life.
 
Everything and everyone contained between the moment the universe was created ex nihilo to the Last Judgement is known to God in its finest details. It’s like you would watch a rerun of a movie you’ve watched a 100 times, you know all the lines, all the twists, nothing surprises you, nothing surprises God, either. God is willing to help anyone, anywhere no matter the circumstances. Saying it’s God’s plan that someone gets cancer is wrong IMO, he certainly has a plan IF and WHEN someone gets cancer, he lets it happen because this is a fallen world and disease is part of it but he’ll turn it into the person’s advantage somehow inasmuch as he can. If we can’t see the positive that can come out of such a negative, it may be redemptive suffering, I’m sure no suffering goes to waste and is suffered in vain for those who trust and love God, they or their loved ones will reap some benefit. I hope I make sense and this was of some help to you.
 
God doesn’t cause bad things to happen. He allows them to for reasons we can’t understand.
 
God gave us free will. Unfortunately, some people use it to do evil. This isn’t what God wants for us to do to each other.
 
+JMJ+

Exactly the point I made in another thread:
+JMJ+

The question is, why do we expect the world (even nature!) to be friends with us, to help us, to be nice to us, when we are at an enmity with the world?

[BIBLEDRB]James 4:4[/BIBLEDRB]
+JMJ+

The world is the enemy of the Lord and His people because He lets the world (led by Satan) do as it pleases, and yet He shows through His Providence that this rebellion of the world is for naught.

[BIBLEDRB]John 16:33[/BIBLEDRB]

The world, led by Satan, hates us. And yet we, through Christ, are stronger than this rebellion of the world.

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 8:35-39[/BIBLEDRB]

In the RSV, Romans 8:37 reads: “In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.” Love triumphs over all.

But are we to hate this world? Yes and no. It must be both, because if not, then we cannot save it. As G.K. Chesterton said:

Let us suppose we are confronted with a desperate thing – say Pimlico [NOTE: Pimlico is the center of horse racing and betting of London. In Chesterton’s time it also was one of the centers of crime, and was one of the dirtier parts of the city]. If we think what is really best for Pimlico we shall find the thread of thought leads to the throne or the mystic and the arbitrary. It is not enough for a man to disapprove of Pimlico: in that case he will merely cut his throat or move to Chelsea. Nor, certainly, is it enough for a man to approve of Pimlico: for then it will remain Pimlico, which would be awful. The only way out of it seems to be for somebody to love Pimlico: to love it with a transcendental tie and without any earthly reason. If there arose a man who loved Pimlico, then Pimlico would rise into ivory towers and golden pinnacles; Pimlico would attire herself as a woman does when she is loved. For decoration is not given to hide horrible things: but to decorate things already adorable. A mother does not give her child a blue bow because he is so ugly without it. A lover does not give a girl a necklace to hide her neck. If men loved Pimlico as mothers love children, arbitrarily, because it is theirs, Pimlico in a year or two might be fairer than Florence. Some readers will say that this is a mere fantasy. I answer that this is the actual history of mankind. This, as a fact, is how cities did grow great. Go back to the darkest roots of civilization and you will find them knotted round some sacred stone or encircling some sacred well. People first paid honour to a spot and afterwards gained glory for it. Men did not love Rome because she was great. She was great because they had loved her.

And that what must be our attitude towards the world. We must love the world as it was originally intended by the Lord:

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 1:31[/BIBLEDRB]

and hate as it has come to be under Satan’s rule. Do you remember what was said in John 3:16?

[BIBLEDRB]John 3:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Under Jesus’ banner, we must fight against the world, for we fight for it.
 
Hello everyone. As we all know, we live in a world far from perfect. Often there are unnatural deaths, bankruptcies, illnesses, breakups, and … you name it! When someone is going through difficulties like these, people around him/her will come and say something comfortable as an act of love. The problem, though, is that they often say things like “it’s God’s plan”, “God must have done it for good” and “God is pleased in making that happen”. These words may ease the person in trouble by letting him/her trust God. But they bother me a lot. How can we say God actively plans bad things to happen (especially with no clear reason)? For example, a victim is murdered by a robber. We know that God always has good plans for the family and friends of the victim, but how can it be said that God finds pleasure in actively planning the murder to happen? Shouldn’t it be merely work of evil and man’s free will rather than a plan of God? Thank you all!
Does God plan the murder to happen or does He account for the murderer using his/her free will in murdering the victim within His plan?
 
Does God plan the murder to happen or does He account for the murderer using his/her free will in murdering the victim within His plan?
Planning would mean to take an active role, he doesn’t plan it, he’s prescient (foreknowledge) but he witnesses it happening and then operates within the new context of the aftermath. I’M sure he puts a limit to how much evil someone abusing his free-will can commit, but how and to what extent he limits the evil being committed remains a mystery.
 
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