antroji - thanks for your interesting considerations. Yes, one must keep various points of view in mind. On this topic, however, we’re looking a single point St. Thomas’ spiritual development – so, I think it’s worth focusing on that.
What he was really pointing to was the supremacy of the authentic mystical encounter – the intimate experience of God over what is produced by natural reason. Science can only observe the superficial aspects. Philosophy also can only use reason and nature. Theology is superior to this because it discusses the workings of God. But theology still uses a natural process of reasoning.
St. Thomas considers all of that straw *in comparison with * the direct experience. That is, science is not valueless in itself – but in comparison with the mystical encounter it’s really nothing.
So, the search for God needs to include this aspect.
For ordinary Catholics like myself – prayer is our mystical encounter. Prayer is our path to union, rising above nature, above scientism, and above rationalism.
This is really the path of Catholic spiritual growth. We use reason as a springboard. But the springboard is designed to get us up into the air. If we cling to the springboard, or pretend that it’s the goal or end, then we’ve reduced reality to rationalism.
The biggest danger we have is not thinking that the Church says “faith only” but that everything must be reduced to rational understanding. That’s our society today – dominated by scientism and technology.
So that makes me question what appears to be your limiting consideration stated as “Why is there so much order and harmony and symmetry on this planet?” Certainly that is where we experientially encounter most or all of our opportunities to wonder. And yet, isn’t it in the face of what we know today a kind of, though personally spectacular to us, limited consideration?
I don’t really follow this. Through “what we know today” … I would say that it’s an unlimited consideration. When we encounter the infinite, then there’s no limit. We also encounter inexplicable precision and harmony in life and the universe.
Indeed, my own guess would be that life is not the existence we perceive and enjoy, mostly, but the pressure of living experience manifesting itself as a continued Creation in every particle of all the astonishing immensity we don’t see because of our narrow focus on this pale blue dot and our speck on it.
Ok, I really don’t want to sound insulting, or even to argue (I respect and appreciate your views), but I can’t make sense of what you think life is.
So much of what we read on here, ReggieM, has to do with how a particular “me” is dealing with circumstances according to their own limited perceptions and assumptions, Catholic though they may be. We tend, I feel, to forget the unimaginable vastness of actual possibility and the tiny bit of spectrum that we actually use in looking at it “through a glass, darkly.”
I fully agree, and I think that was St. Thomas’ point.
I’m guessing that Aquinas was able, due to his diligence, to hone his receptivity to something far beyond our ordinary “scope” of spiritual “understanding” which tends heavily to be faith as distinct from knowledge.
Agreed. In this case, a different kind of knowledge.
The Book of Wisdom
Chapter 13
For all men were by nature foolish who were in ignorance of God, and who from the good things seen did not succeed in knowing him who is, and from studying the works did not discern the artisan;
But either fire, or wind, or the swift air, or the circuit of the stars, or the mighty water, or the luminaries of heaven, the governors of the world, they considered gods.
Now if out of joy in their beauty they thought them gods, let them know how far more excellent is the Lord than these; for the original source of beauty fashioned them.
Or if they were struck by their might and energy, let them from these things realize how much more powerful is he who made them.
For from the greatness and the beauty of created things their original author, by analogy, is seen.
But yet, for these the blame is less; For they indeed have gone astray perhaps, though they seek God and wish to find him.
For they search busily among his works, but are distracted by what they see, because the things seen are fair.
But again, not even these are pardonable.
For if they so far succeeded in knowledge that they could speculate about the world, how did they not more quickly find its LORD?
For the works of the Highest only are wonderful, and his works are glorious, secret, and hidden.” (Ecclus 11:4).
“And I understood that man can find no reason of all those works of God that are done under the sun: and the more he shall labor to seek, so much the less shall he find: yea, though the wise man shall say, that he knoweth it, he shall not be able to find it.” (Eccl 8:17).
:thumbsup
eace, Carlan
