It's no wonder people are confused

[Phemie]

I’m on holidays and have been attending Mass where I happen to be on the weekend. I’ve had occasion to use the French Missalette approved by the CCCB, or at least we assume it’s approved since it’s put out by their publishing arm, Novalis.

The missalettes for the last two Sundays provided:

• only Form 3 of the Penitential Rite;
• a sung Gloria that bears little resemblance to the actual words, although they did provide the real text for those who simply recite it;
• a sung Sanctus which doesn’t quite match the actual words, though they did provide the actual text for those who recite it;
• last week, only EP II, this week EP II and EP II for Masses with Children

So today at Mass, where there were 2 kids which brought the average age down to about 55, the EP for Masses with Children was used; the congregation recited the Doxology of the Eucharistic Prayer with the priest (they also did that at the parish I attended last Sunday), they also recited “Lord Jesus Christ, who said to your Apostles, peace I leave you…” with the priest but there was no Sign of Peace.

Then something odd, the priest left the sanctuary at Communion and two EMHCs distributed Communion while he was nowhere to be seen. He may have been momentarily indisposed, he returned to the sanctuary just as the EMHCs were returning to the altar with the ciboria.

I don’t go to Mass to criticize but when things are so flagrantly wrong it’s hard to stay quiet.

 

[sscott]

Please be charitable in thought of the priest who left the sanctuary during communion. I’m sure he had a very good reason. He finished the part he had to do and then left it in the capable hands of those who could continue.

 

[OraLabora]

I’m on holidays and have been attending Mass where I happen to be on the weekend. I’ve had occasion to use the French Missalette approved by the CCCB, or at least we assume it’s approved since it’s put out by their publishing arm, Novalis.

The missalettes for the last two Sundays provided:

• only Form 3 of the Penitential Rite;
• a sung Gloria that bears little resemblance to the actual words, although they did provide the real text for those who simply recite it;
• a sung Sanctus which doesn’t quite match the actual words, though they did provide the actual text for those who recite it;
• last week, only EP II, this week EP II and EP II for Masses with Children

So today at Mass, where there were 2 kids which brought the average age down to about 55, the EP for Masses with Children was used; the congregation recited the Doxology of the Eucharistic Prayer with the priest (they also did that at the parish I attended last Sunday), they also recited “Lord Jesus Christ, who said to your Apostles, peace I leave you…” with the priest but there was no Sign of Peace.

Then something odd, the priest left the sanctuary at Communion and two EMHCs distributed Communion while he was nowhere to be seen. He may have been momentarily indisposed, he returned to the sanctuary just as the EMHCs were returning to the altar with the ciboria.

I don’t go to Mass to criticize but when things are so flagrantly wrong it’s hard to stay quiet.

I assume you were using “Prions en Église”. Many of us here refuse to use it, among other reasons for the poor music. It also seems “agenda-driven” based on the commentaries/reflections in it. To put not too fine a point on it, I hate it. If I’m stuck I’ll use it for the readings, but little else. Fortunately I can generally follow along because I know the responses by heart in French (but not in English).

I’ve used Magnificat in the past but sometimes it’s out of synch with some of the moveable feasts or Canadian saints. I dropped my subscription. I simply use my missal now. My favourite Sunday Missal was put together by Benedictines.

That’s for French. At the abbey I use the Graduale Romanum (Latin except for the Greek Kyriale) for the music and the Missal for the readings. One thing at the abbey is that a feast/solemnity is always on the day of. Epiphany is always January 6; Ascension always on the Thursday, etc. They are never moved to the Sunday. The liturgy attempts do accommodate nobody but the monastic community. If you use Prions en Église at the abbey, for instance the Sunday readings on the Sunday after Ascension are always wrong; usually the monk doing the homily will mention it in order remove the confusion among those who only visit occasionally.

For English, I usually just pick up the Novalis missalette at the church I’m attending. I rarely attend Mass in English.

There is a French hymnal approved by the CCCB, I have a copy, and not all of the music in there follows the words of the Gloria faithfully either.

As for the absent priest… I’ve seen too many priests do too many weird things. The weirdest was at a local parish. I was attempting to get to the monastery on Epiphany one winter (when Jan. 6 actually fell on a Sunday), but a really bad snowstorm cut my journey at 10 km so I dropped into the local church which conveniently had Mass starting just shortly after I arrived there. The priest showed up with and celebrated Mass with no chasuble and not even a stole, and played his guitar during the homily. At first I wasn’t even sure it was a Mass and not a communion service, until he started the Eucharistic Prayer. In his defense, he did say during the homily that he had rushed from another Mass and had celebrated a ridiculous number of Masses during the Christmas season, so perhaps he forgot his vestments… but it certainly was unsettling not knowing whether the priest was, in fact, a priest, and whether the Mass was in fact a Mass and not a communion service, until the EP.

There’s a reason why the monastery church is full on most Sundays

 

[Phemie]

Which is why it was such a joy to attend Mass at ‘your’ Abbey this Tuesday past. While, obviously there was no Gloria or Credo, the Mass followed the rubrics and I never questioned what was happening.

Yes folks, I finally made it to this Benedictine Abbey on my way to my brother’s in NB from our daughter’s home outside Ottawa. If you are ever in the Eastern Townships area of Quebec you owe it to yourself to visit and attend a few liturgies there – they are all chanted.

I got to the area early enough for the 5 pm Vespers – all chanted in Latin with the reading in French. When I found myself awake really early the next morning I returned to the Abbey for Matins (5 am) chanted mostly in French, Lauds (7:30 am) in Latin, Mass at 11. Am, chanted in French with the Ordinary in Latin & Greek, Vespers again, followed by Compline, in French but for the Salve Regina.

It was wonderful and prayerful and peaceful. I’m now determined to return to the area for a longer period that includes a Sunday.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I’m on holidays and have been attending Mass where I happen to be on the weekend. I’ve had occasion to use the French Missalette approved by the CCCB, or at least we assume it’s approved since it’s put out by their publishing arm, Novalis.

The missalettes for the last two Sundays provided:

• only Form 3 of the Penitential Rite;
• a sung Gloria that bears little resemblance to the actual words, although they did provide the real text for those who simply recite it;
• a sung Sanctus which doesn’t quite match the actual words, though they did provide the actual text for those who recite it;
• last week, only EP II, this week EP II and EP II for Masses with Children

So today at Mass, where there were 2 kids which brought the average age down to about 55, the EP for Masses with Children was used; the congregation recited the Doxology of the Eucharistic Prayer with the priest (they also did that at the parish I attended last Sunday), they also recited “Lord Jesus Christ, who said to your Apostles, peace I leave you…” with the priest but there was no Sign of Peace.

Then something odd, the priest left the sanctuary at Communion and two EMHCs distributed Communion while he was nowhere to be seen. He may have been momentarily indisposed, he returned to the sanctuary just as the EMHCs were returning to the altar with the ciboria.

I don’t go to Mass to criticize but when things are so flagrantly wrong it’s hard to stay quiet.

Maybe the priest was feeling sick and had to run to the bathroom? It happens.

 

[OraLabora]

Oh I forgot to mention, in parishes, reciting the doxology with the priest is the norm in French Masses. I believe I heard once there was an indult; I have not found any evidence of such, but it is widespread and has been at any French Mass I’ve attended outside the abbey.

 

[Phemie]

Oh I forgot to mention, in parishes, reciting the doxology with the priest is the norm in French Masses. I believe I heard once there was an indult; I have not found any evidence of such, but it is widespread and has been at any French Mass I’ve attended outside the abbey.

It flies in the face of the CCCB’s own document on the Eucharistic Prayer which clearly says

**How we participate: **Members of the congregation or assembly take an active part in the prayer in these ways:
Preparing. We prepare for participation by our life and prayer during the week and by sharing attentively in the Liturgy of the Word.
Responding. We answer the priest at the beginning of the preface (the dialogue), which opens the eucharistic prayer.
Singing. We sing the three acclamations: the Holy, holy; the memorial acclamation; and the great Amen.
Watching. We watch as the priest takes the bread and then the cup and repeats the words of the Lord.
Listening. We listen attentively as the priest proclaims the eucharistic prayer. It is the prayer of the whole Church, is said in our name and in the name of the Church on earth and in heaven.
Interceding. During the week we pray for our- selves and for others. In the Eucharist we join these petitions with the prayer of Christ and his Church to the Father.
Thanking. With Jesus and the whole Church, we give thanks and praise to our heavenly Father.
Offering. We give ourselves to God, ready to obey his will and to live each day for him.
A presidential prayer: The eucharistic prayer is proclaimed by the bishop or priest as president of the assembly of believers. He alone says the prayer, in the name of the community, while all participate in the ways described above.

I know that in the parish I went to yesterday (the parish In which I grew up) a visiting priest once stopped dead when they began to recite the Doxology and said, “I don’t know what you think you’re doing but this is for me, not you, to recite.”

A member of the parish council told me that their former pastor had told them that he was not supposed to have them recite the Doxology but he was going to do it anyway. This is the same priest who told me that he thought the Pope was wrong to stop widespread use of Form Three of Confession; the same priest, incidentally, who has since been convicted of embezzling over $125K from the four parishes he was responsible for as well as bilking an old lady out of her life savings.

 

[Phemie]

There is a French hymnal approved by the CCCB, I have a copy, and not all of the music in there follows the words of the Gloria faithfully either.

I also have a copy of “D’une Même Voix” – a compilation put together for all the French parishes around the world with some adaptations for each region, as I understand – and noted the same thing. There were very few hymns in it with which I was familiar.

 

[OraLabora]

It flies in the face of the CCCB’s own document on the Eucharistic Prayer which clearly says

I know that in the parish I went to yesterday (the parish In which I grew up) a visiting priest once stopped dead when they began to recite the Doxology and said, “I don’t know what you think you’re doing but this is for me, not you, to recite.”

A member of the parish council told me that their former pastor had told them that he was not supposed to have them recite the Doxology but he was going to do it anyway. This is the same priest who told me that he thought the Pope was wrong to stop widespread use of Form Three of Confession; the same priest, incidentally, who has since been convicted of embezzling over $125K from the four parishes he was responsible for as well as bilking an old lady out of her life savings.

By “norm” I should clarify that I mean “what always happens” rather than “what is mandated to happen”. I’ve so far found no written evidence of any indult allowing the assembly to recite the doxology with the priest. Once in a while at the abbey someone will try to chant it with the concelebrating priests. Fortunately today, the assembly properly responded only with the great Amen. The abbey church was quite full today in spite of the rainy weather (or maybe because of it…)

Here’s another interesting tidbit, in summer the monks are chanting the Apostle’s Creed instead of the Nicene Creed. There are some liturgical simplifications in summer; the other one is that on ordinary weekdays (or as I call them “feasts of St. Feria”) and memorials, the patristic reading is omitted at Matins, and replaced by a brief reading and versicle. It’s something the Rule of St. Benedict allows for during the shorter summer nights. On Sundays, feasts and soleminties though, the full reading is used.

I also have a copy of “D’une Même Voix” – a compilation put together for all the French parishes around the world with some adaptations for each region, as I understand – and noted the same thing. There were very few hymns in it with which I was familiar.

Yes that’s the one I have. It’s relegated to the back of a cupboard under my bookcase. I never use it.

 

[Phemie]

Yes that’s the one I have. It’s relegated to the back of a cupboard under my bookcase. I never use it.

I’ve only ever seen it used at St. Joseph’s in Orleans, Ont., and even though it’s in the pew they project the words for everything on a massive screen behind the altar. When we’re not singing they entertain us with pretty pictures.

 

[twf]

I’ve only ever seen it used at St. Joseph’s in Orleans, Ont., and even though it’s in the pew they project the words for everything on a massive screen behind the altar. When we’re not singing they entertain us with pretty pictures.

I spent a year in Toronto and found some parishes with truly beautiful, reverent, traditional liturgies… (I can never cease singing the praises of the Oratory Fathers at Holy Family) but from your various posts over the years, it sounds like much of Ontario and Quebec are liturgical wastelands. How sad . I’m from BC. The Archdiocese of Vancouver tends to be more on the conservative side, but the rural dioceses are a little looser liturgically speaking.

 

[Phemie]

​

I spent a year in Toronto and found some parishes with truly beautiful, reverent, traditional liturgies… (I can never cease singing the praises of the Oratory Fa****thers at Holy Family) but from your various posts over the years, it sounds like much of Ontario and Quebec are liturgical wastelands. How sad . I’m from BC. The Archdiocese of Vancouver tends to be more on the conservative side, but the rural dioceses are a little looser liturgically speaking.

I’ve found that French Canadian parishes have a totally different take on the liturgical aspects of Mass.

 

[LilyPearls]

I spent a year in Toronto and found some parishes with truly beautiful, reverent, traditional liturgies… (I can never cease singing the praises of the Oratory Fathers at Holy Family) but from your various posts over the years, it sounds like much of Ontario and Quebec are liturgical wastelands. How sad . I’m from BC. The Archdiocese of Vancouver tends to be more on the conservative side, but the rural dioceses are a little looser liturgically speaking.

Diocese of Hamilton is wonderful.

 

[OraLabora]

​

I’ve found that French Canadian parishes have a totally different take on the liturgical aspects of Mass.

Quebec has become a feminist matriarchy. It’s been my experience that too much of the liturgy has been placed in the hands of liturgical committees made up of women who are fond of hokey little “symbolic” processions to place things on the altar, light candles or whatever, I.e. Things nowhere to be found in the missal, ostensibly to give them a “greater role” in the Church. It’s so bad, I’ve seen things like penitential rites displaced or omitted in order to include these para-liturgical gestures, even at Masses where our schola was providing Gregorian chant. Imagine having to chant the Kyrie after a penitential rite before the Mass even officially began, in order to accommodate one of these silly little rituals.

On the other hand our schola did land on a couple of very orthodox priests and parishes, in Sherbrooke where we’re based. Oddly, they were usually the best-attended parishes as well, especially by young families. One of them even chanted the EP, which nicely complemented our chant. Something extremely rare in these parts. Alas he has been promoted to bishop in NB. Hopefully the parish will continue on its orthodox path.