It's not "lust" ....it's normal!

[StCsDavid]

Contrary to much of what has been posted here, Christ recognized no distinction between the lustful thought and the lustful act. Therefore, if you think something lustful, you might as well follow through on that thought, since God has already found you guilty of such. Since we as Christians are called to be perfect as God is perfect, and since such judgment is an aspect of that perfection, neither must we make any such distinctions in our moral discernment.

So with that logic, if one has a thought of suicide, one should just go ahead and do it. Or if one has the thought of robbing a bank, one should just go ahead and do it. While thought can lead to sin, it certainly doesn’t give a green light do act upon the thought.

 

[GodisEverywhere]

A fleeting thought - which may be a trick of the enemy - is NOT sinful as long as it is cast away. We all face temptations, and that (essentially) is what a “sinful thought” is all about. When a checker at the grocery store given me too much change, it may cross my mind to keep it. IMHO, that’s how satan works. Dwelling on the thought or acting on the thought, however - THAT is sin.

Exactly. I don’t understand how people can say thoughts are sins. It’s how we respond to them that counts.

Again, thoughts arise without your permission hundreds of times a day. Someone cuts you off on the freeway and the first thought that comes may be a stupid thought. If we encouraged and acted upon all our thoughts, we’d all be in jail or a mental hospital.
Thoughts are just thoughts, not action.

 

[Wild_Boar]

I heard an excellent teaching by a wonderful priest a few weeks ago while on a retreat. He said that having a thought is NOT a sin. Sometimes these are tossed our way by the enemy. Entertaining that thought - or acting on that thought - is a different matter. This makes good sense to me.

When I have a thought that is disturbing, I simply echo Jesus: “Get thee behind me, Satan”. Then I move on.

Martin Luther said, “You can’t keep the birds from flying into the tree, but you can keep them from building a nest there.”

 

[Anthony_V]

dwelling on a thought that may bring lust, or lustful in itself, is like sitting on the edge of a cliff and saying, “I’m not falling”. Take into regards that the flesh cannot say no, that is why we have a sinful nature. We look to Christ to put into our hearts purity and an eternal fire for true and utterly amazing love- which in effect, is too extreme and holy for something lustful to dwell. Since we have free will, one be tempted to turn down the heat so you can try to indulge in the seemingly enjoyable feasts of pleasure on the table of vanity. Sexual thoughts are not evil, or God would have not created them. Its the abuse that renders them evil. What makes these thoughts holy is when you forget your own pleasure during some form of intimate act with a spouse, and instead thrive on the pleasure of giving *them *pleasure, rather than letting vanity corrode you. Generosity comes in many forms, the most holy (IMHO) being the gift of sex between a married man and woman.

 

[holyrosary11]

Contrary to much of what has been posted here, Christ recognized no distinction between the lustful thought and the lustful act. Therefore, if you think something lustful, you might as well follow through on that thought, since God has already found you guilty of such. .

This is SO not true and can mislead people who don’t fully understand how wrong certain sinful behaviors are… 7 how bad the consequences can be.

It is NOT the same thing to do something sinful as it is to think about it… Jesus is just trying to show us how even the mere act of thinking impure thoughts can make our minds/hearts impure, in need of purging.

***If thinking in an impure way can defile us, how much MORE will DOING an impure thing defile us??? ***

Obviously, there are FAR MORE terrible consequences to doing something sinful than just thinking about it…

 

[holyrosary11]

dwelling on a thought that may bring lust, or lustful in itself, is like sitting on the edge of a cliff and saying, “I’m not falling”. Take into regards that the flesh cannot say no, that is why we have a sinful nature. We look to Christ to put into our hearts purity and an eternal fire for true and utterly amazing love- which in effect, is too extreme and holy for something lustful to dwell.an.

Lust is not always wrong. It is not wrong to lust after one’s spouse… In fact, it would be so nice if spouses lusted more for each other than they do - instead of looking at the supposedly greener pastures on the other side of the proverbial fence…

I believe such lust, so called, is a great gift from God…

 

[holyrosary11]

So with that logic, if one has a thought of suicide, one should just go ahead and do it. Or if one has the thought of robbing a bank, one should just go ahead and do it. While thought can lead to sin, it certainly doesn’t give a green light do act upon the thought.

well said…

you can fantasize in your head aabout Joe or Joan down the street & that is not good… but if you just go ahead and act on those feelings… obviously you could end up with such consequencs as:
an STD … &/or a very angry spouse, etc… not to mention a guilty consicence … not to mention messing up that other person’s relationship with God…

hmmm… I’m wondering:

Why does this even need to be said?



hopefully , with most people, it doesn’t…

 

[Other_Eric]

So with that logic, if one has a thought of suicide, one should just go ahead and do it. Or if one has the thought of robbing a bank, one should just go ahead and do it. While thought can lead to sin, it certainly doesn’t give a green light do act upon the thought.

This is SO not true and can mislead people who don’t fully understand how wrong certain sinful behaviors are… 7 how bad the consequences can be.

It is NOT the same thing to do something sinful as it is to think about it… Jesus is just trying to show us how even the mere act of thinking impure thoughts can make our minds/hearts impure, in need of purging.

***If thinking in an impure way can defile us, how much MORE will DOING an impure thing defile us??? ***

Obviously, there are FAR MORE terrible consequences to doing something sinful than just thinking about it…

well said…

you can fantasize in your head aabout Joe or Joan down the street & that is not good… but if you just go ahead and act on those feelings… obviously you could end up with such consequencs as:
an STD … &/or a very angry spouse, etc… not to mention a guilty consicence … not to mention messing up that other person’s relationship with God…

hmmm… I’m wondering:

Why does this even need to be said?



hopefully , with most people, it doesn’t…

On the contrary, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (1) Nowhere have I read any Catholic commentary which tries to explain this passage away as a mere formality or, indeed, does anything but take Christ at His word. Indeed John Paul II himself went to great pains to draw this equivalence. As noted by Christopher West, "We know [lust] as an interior act that can express itself in a "look" even without expressing itself in a bodily act." (2)

What, therefore, can we say of people who would attempt to minimize or explain away the clear teaching of Christ as interpreted by His vicar on Earth? Doesn’t such a refusal to acknowledge the fault put one in grave danger of presumption, which may lead to refusing the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit and then to final damnation?

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Mat 5:28-29. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

(2) West, Christopher. Theology of the Body Explained: A Commentary on John Paul II’s “Gospel of the Body”. Boston, MA: Pauline Books and Media, 2003. p. 172.

 

[TLM08]

Lust is not always wrong. It is not wrong to lust after one’s spouse… In fact, it would be so nice if spouses lusted more for each other than they do - instead of looking at the supposedly greener pastures on the other side of the proverbial fence…

I believe such lust, so called, is a great gift from God…

When the Pope said it is a sin to “lust” for one’s wife… I wonder if he means it’s wrong for a man to watch his hot looking wife undress, or watch her bend over to put the dishes away in those great fitting jeans? What if she was to perform a lap dance or strip tease for him? Is that “lust” according to the church? I think a lot of good catholic people are scared to death to have a sexual thought even at home with their wife or husband. It’s truly very sad.

When I think of “lust”… I think of the trash that’s masquerading as family entertainment on prime time television.

 

[TLM08]

On the contrary, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (1) Nowhere have I read any Catholic commentary which tries to explain this passage away as a mere formality or, indeed, does anything but take Christ at His word. Indeed John Paul II himself went to great pains to draw this equivalence. As noted by Christopher West, “We know [lust] as an interior act that can express itself in a “look” even without expressing itself in a bodily act.” (2)

What, therefore, can we say of people who would attempt to minimize or explain away the clear teaching of Christ as interpreted by His vicar on Earth? Doesn’t such a refusal to acknowledge the fault put one in grave danger of presumption, which may lead to refusing the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit and then to final damnation?

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Mat 5:28-29. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

(2) West, Christopher. Theology of the Body Explained: A Commentary on John Paul II’s “Gospel of the Body”. Boston, MA: Pauline Books and Media, 2003. p. 172.

Single people cannot commit adultry. By definition,“adultry” is in reference to married people and infidelity. Where “Looking with lust” is concerned perhaps Jesus was saying if you want to have sex with someone else’s wife or husband and are planning to act on that desire, you have already committed adultry in your heart. This would make a lot more sense than what West is saying.

Who made Christopher West chief of “sex police” anyway? Does he speak for God?

 

[Peter_Dawson]

I believe that the “porn culture”, rampant marital infidelity, and sexual promiscuity of modern times is a good example of the sort of immorality that Christ was speaking against as “lustful” during his ministry.

Unfortunately there seems to be a large number of threads on here posted by good men who are worried that they are sinning because they have sexual thoughts when they go to the beach, see a provocative commercial or an attractive female walking down the street.

It is sad that in this day and age something so natural and beautiful can be make a man become self-loathing, riddled with guilt and shame because some of the early church fathers (like Augustine) couldn’t control themselves during their youth.

When Christ spoke of lust and “adultry in the heart” I don’t think he was talking about normal sexual thoughts and feelings experienced by man and woman who haven’t yet married. It is these very sexual thoughts that initiate a man’s interest in a woman as a potential wife in the first place. Without those initial sexual thoughts, there is almost no chance for marital type interest to even get off the ground.

How great would it be if we all stepped back and re-examined how we define the word “lust”. While modern culture is learly out of control, it’s just as rediculous to constantly run around in a fog of shame.

I agree with the sentiments expressed here. I have heard several adult Catholics saying, “Lust, even with your spouse, is a sin.” Or, “Sex even with your spouse is a sin.”

NOT IT ISN’T.

Lust for, and sex with, your spouse is a wonderful gift from God, something which you should celebrate with joy.

My sons are familiar with one of my clients who sought women to date because he considered them ugly! And he finally married one for that reason! When he told one of my sons about his thinking, and my other sons heard it, I moved fast to correct it. I said, “Gentlemen, that man’s attitiude is not religious. It is wrong. And I am certain that it not only upsets God, but it will devestate his wife when she figures out his thinking. God made women the way he did to attract us. A woman who is interested in you wants you to be interested back because you think she is attractive. To seek a woman’s company because you find her repulsive is a cruel and sick deception upn the woman.”

 

[PJM]

=Other Eric;5127791]Contrary to much of what has been posted here, Christ recognized no distinction between the lustful thought and the lustful act. Therefore, **if you think something lustful, you might as well follow through on that thought, **since God has already found you guilty of such. Since we as Christians are called to be perfect as God is perfect, and since such judgment is an aspect of that perfection, neither must we make any such distinctions in our moral discernment.

Not so dear friend,

Toughts, even lustful thoughts are a normal part of the human experiece. By themselves they are not sinful! ARE NOT SINFUL!

What makes them sinful is accepting, encouraging, willness to develope these thoughts. It is our freewill, the acceptance or the rejection of these trials that make us sinners, or lead us on the road to sainthood.

God is “Perfect” not because he rejected temptation, rather God is Perfect because He consistantly rejected sin! That dear friend is a HUGE difference.

We as targets of santan are going to be tempted. We as Children of God are to deny, reject and refuse to be suckered into these soul damming thoughts!

Love and prayers,

 

[BiologyBrain]

I think the definition of lust should contain more than it does… There are some who are arguing that lusting for your spouse is wrong. JPII agrees. However, he in his TOB (at least from what I’ve read & understood from West’s observations) adds to the definition of lust. The addition is about objectifying your spouse only for the sexual pleasure you receive/want to receive. To lust after anyone objectifies that person for sexual pleasure of your own. Lust does not focus on the unity God has called us to enact during our sexual (marital) relations.

I don’t think the standard definition of lust is clear enough on this aspect. For instance, it is quite possible to have ‘lustful’ thoughts regarding one’s spouse (or even a stranger) and not act on them, but still have those thoughts cause you to sin against your own purity. The sin comes in when the person you’re lusting after is **just an object **to satisfy your carnal cravings w/o regard for the other person’s God-given nature. However, to have ‘lustful’ thoughts about one’s spouse that call to mind the gift your spouse is to you from God and how wonderful it is to be together in a sexual way, is NOT sinful. It is the ojectification of the other person that makes lustful thoughts sinful.

For myself, instead of calling these thoughts lustful (the latter described) I call them sexual thoughts. These sexual thoughts can also lead to sin, but not as easily b/c the focus is not simply on pleasuring yourself w/ your spouse, but on recognizing and embracing the pleasure God granted you together sexually for one another. If God is in the equation as Gift-giver & Creator of Beauty/Sexuality, the sexual thoughts can be pure of heart and a sign of your willingness to accept this most wonderful gift given to us by God.

 

[Wild_Boar]

Paul recognized that people have legitimate sexual needs. In 1 Corinthians 7, he directed the church as to how they were to appropriate their sexual drives.
vs. 2, “To avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife.”

vs.9, “if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

 

[PJM]

=TLM08;5130335]When the Pope said it is a sin to “lust” for one’s wife… I wonder if he means it’s wrong for a man to watch his hot looking wife undress, or watch her bend over to put the dishes away in those great fitting jeans? What if she was to perform a lap dance or strip tease for him? Is that “lust” according to the church? I think a lot of good catholic people are scared to death to have a sexual thought even at home with their wife or husband. It’s truly very sad.

When I think of “lust”… I think of the trash that’s masquerading as family entertainment on prime time television.

Wounderful question, and some great ideas for us married folks

I’m inclined to see the sexual fullfillment within marriage, not as “lust” which has sinful and at times evil conotations, as “foreplay” which is heathy and normal. Sex is to be enjoyed within the confines of married love [one man -one woman]. That is the incentive and in great part the reward for parenthood.

As an FYI: My wife of 41 years is better looking today, than when we got married, and she was awesome then!

Love and prayers,

 

[manualman]

I agree with the sentiments expressed here. I have heard several adult Catholics saying, “Lust, even with your spouse, is a sin.” Or, “Sex even with your spouse is a sin.”

NOT IT ISN’T.

Lust for, and sex with, your spouse is a wonderful gift from God, something which you should celebrate with joy.

My sons are familiar with one of my clients who sought women to date because he considered them ugly! And he finally married one for that reason! When he told one of my sons about his thinking, and my other sons heard it, I moved fast to correct it. I said, “Gentlemen, that man’s attitiude is not religious. It is wrong. And I am certain that it not only upsets God, but it will devestate his wife when she figures out his thinking. God made women the way he did to attract us. A woman who is interested in you wants you to be interested back because you think she is attractive. To seek a woman’s company because you find her repulsive is a cruel and sick deception upn the woman.”

Lots of wrong (name removed by moderator)ut on this thread, but this one stands out. Not because it is the most wrong, but because I think the guy he’s speaking of actually wrote a song! “If you want to be happy for the rest of your life… get an ugly girl to marry you! La la la la, la la la la, la la la la, …” Wish I could remember more lyrics!

Lust is ALWAYS wrong, regardless of who you lust for. The definition of lust is when your desire is for your own pleasure to the exclusion of the very humanity of the other. She’s not a human being created in the image and likeness of God, she’s a piece of meat useful for gratifying yourself.

Passion and desire, on the other hand, are glorious gifts of God to married couples. One I’m rather thankful for.

But while it is in fact, “normal” to experience temptation when confronted with a beach full of occupied bikinis, that normalcy is not a license to oggle and treat those human beings as objects (boy, I’d like to…). Obviously, when you’ve never even met her and you get turned on, it’s lust, not healthy passion. THAT kind of normalcy is only normal because of our fallen condition. TLM, we are not total wretches we are good, but fallen. We retain much of the goodness God created us with, but have tragic flaws. One of which inclines us to abuse the gift of sexuality.

There ARE catholics who have an unhealthy attitude towards sex and openly (or more often secretly) consider the whole thing “dirty and shameful.” But there are a whole lot more catholics who simply fail to discern the difference between healthy passion and sinful lust.

So far, it seems there are more of the latter posting to this thread than the former…

 

[manualman]

When the Pope said it is a sin to “lust” for one’s wife… I wonder if he means it’s wrong for a man to watch his hot looking wife undress, or watch her bend over to put the dishes away in those great fitting jeans? What if she was to perform a lap dance or strip tease for him? Is that “lust” according to the church? I think a lot of good catholic people are scared to death to have a sexual thought even at home with their wife or husband. It’s truly very sad.

When I think of “lust”… I think of the trash that’s masquerading as family entertainment on prime time television.

That depends entirely on how the man’s mind is working during those examples. If his mind retains the connection between the body parts he is looking at and the entirety that is his wife, no problem. If he’s just getting aroused at the fact that a great body (who cares who’s) is slowly becoming visible layer by layer, then he may, in fact, have a problem on his hands.

 

[Peter_Dawson]

Lust is ALWAYS wrong, regardless of who you lust for.

Oh, my heavens, you’re so wrong here, manualman!!!

If you are married, God WANTS you to lust after your wife. Please, slobber away! God gave women a shape, and men an eye that hankers after that shape, PRECISELY BECAUSE, good friend, IT IS HIS DESIGN THAT THEY GET TOGETHER!!!

 

[ModsAreStupid]

Hello, yes it’s me again. No, I won’t give up my protest. How can you call yourself Christians? The Mods on this website are jerks, so I’ll protesting until they un-ban my previous usernames and apologize for their wrong doing. I will protest everyday until they make the peace…

Rules of the forum:

1. If you support any sort of view that is different than what the mods believe, you will be banned. Discussion is not open for different and new ideas. Even if Catholicism is making a mistake, we support tradition.
2. Everything the Catholic Church has ever done has been infallible. Therefore, there is no need for you to question anything about Catholicism, the Church is perfect. If the Church told you to kill someone, you should do it, no questions asked.
3. Any rude and ignorant comments to others stating “You are not a true Catholic if you voted for Obama” will be accepted and is encouraged.
4. God didn’t give you this conscience to use for yourself. You must substitute other peoples judgment for your own, and never question them, because their judgment is better.
5. If you child someday asks you if they should use a condom, you should tell them “No, let yourself get HIV instead.”
6. Stupidity and loss of common sense are encouraged.

 

[manualman]

Not when you define lust properly.

If you read my post and still feel this way, I pity your wife. Nobodly likes to be reduced to an object. And nobody should.