It's OK to Sing 'America The Beautiful' In Church

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GKC said:
And, of course, you know. And I do too.
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Well, to be serious for a moment yes I think I do. Unless I’m misremembering you describe yourself as Catholic not Protestant … not to be confused with Fr. Robert Hart who says Catholic and Protestant.
 
Peter_J said:
Well, to be serious for a moment yes I think I do. Unless I’m misremembering you describe yourself as Catholic not Protestant … not to be confused with Fr. Robert Hart who says Catholic and Protestant.
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Yes.

I am never to be confused with Fr. H.
 
GKC said:
Yes.

I am never to be confused with Fr. H.
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One can be Catholic and Protestant, Catholic and/or Protestant, Catholic not Protestant, Protestant not Catholic? I suppose we should throw in Orthodox in there, too. And Confused Catholic and/or Protestant and/or Orthodox, etc. The possibilities boggle the mind. And Catholic not to be confused with Fr. H. and Confused Prostant not Orthodox not confused…

then there are beasts like not(not(not(Catholic or Orthodox) not (confused and Father H.)) or not Protestant and confused).

I hope that straightens it out. Lucidity in logic is my mission.
 
Well, I’m a Protestant for the time being, raised Pentecostal … and have never liked such practices in church. It’s not that I reject or have no respect for patriotism as such–quite the contrary. But devotion to God and devotion to one’s country are such infinitely different orders of loyalty that it feels grotesque to act in ways that seem to conflate them. Wish I could say that the churches I grew up in always avoided such conflations, but they didn’t.
 
Tomyris said:
One can be Catholic and Protestant, Catholic and/or Protestant, Catholic not Protestant, Protestant not Catholic? I suppose we should throw in Orthodox in there, too. And Confused Catholic and/or Protestant and/or Orthodox, etc. The possibilities boggle the mind. And Catholic not to be confused with Fr. H. and Confused Prostant not Orthodox not confused…

then there are beasts like not(not(not(Catholic or Orthodox) not (confused and Father H.)) or not Protestant and confused).

I hope that straightens it out. Lucidity in logic is my mission.
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Another occasion for the use of the term “motley”.
 
There are a few songs which are sung in Catholic mass now that are in the We Celebrate books but came nothing short of some controversy. I would say “Amazing Grace” and “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” are the most extraordinary to be in Catholic praise books. Not that they aren’t beautiful songs, but just the history and what they represent.
 
My gut Lutheran reaction was “No way! There’s no way we’d sing secular stuff in church!”

But upon reading the lyrics - I’d tentatively say that it’s pretty close to a proper Hymn - it’s a petition to God for His grace and a prayer of thanksgiving all wrapped in one song.
 
I think America the Beautiful would be fine.

This recalls to mind a vacation some years ago when we visited friends who had moved away and went to church with them. I don’t recall the denominational affiliation, but this was July 4 weekend and we sang the Star Spangled Banner at the end of the service. It didn’t bother us but the guy of the couple was absolutely steamed and embarrassed and thought we would come down on him or something. It was done as right after the closing prayer, so it really wasn’t technically part of the service, but you might not notice: everyone was still in position and so forth. And the singing of the Star Spangled Banner was much more enthusiastic than was the music in the service itself. Our friend had numerous struggles with that church. It wasn’t a good fit for him but he bore with it for a long time.

Now, if you asked, how about the Mickey Mouse Club March, them’s fighting words…

Maybe during the announcements?

And on our honeymoon we attended a small church where they DID sing Happy Birthday to someone. How sweet, I thought at the time, but then, everything was sweet at the time. Euphoric. Blissful. Downright honeymoon-ish.
 
jas84173 said:
There are a few songs which are sung in Catholic mass now that are in the We Celebrate books but came nothing short of some controversy. I would say “Amazing Grace” and “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” are the most extraordinary to be in Catholic praise books. Not that they aren’t beautiful songs, but just the history and what they represent.
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I can’t even imagine what is wrong with Amazing Grace.
When I was in USAF basic training way back when, at the end of service, we sang the Star Spangled Banner and with a lot of gusto. It was a first for me, but I was mighty proud to sing it. Now, almost 50 years later, I’m STILL proud to sing it in church.

The words to America the Beautiful are like a hymn. The haunting melody and the praise of His creation… a beautiful prayer in its own rite.
 
EveningSkye111 said:
I can’t even imagine what is wrong with Amazing Grace.
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Wrong? I think that might be a bit much. While I do not agree with the argument against it, it usually has to do more with what it might imply, especially once saved, always saved. But like I said, it only might imply something that might be misunderstood. It is one of my favorite hymns and never had any issue with it.

On a side note, in 2004, it was one of my first posts here that argued the case against Amazing Grace was poor.
 
pnewton said:
Wrong? I think that might be a bit much. While I do not agree with the argument against it, it usually has to do more with what it might imply, especially once saved, always saved. But like I said, it only might imply something that might be misunderstood. It is one of my favorite hymns and never had any issue with it.

On a side note, in 2004, it was one of my first posts here that argued the case against Amazing Grace was poor.
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I like Amazing Grace. But I get the feeling some people check under their pew first thing at Mass to be sure no one has carved OSAS there, and they are the first to remind you when you say that Jesus saves, that you could commit a mortal sin and die and go to hell at any second, so watch yourself, and that works without faith is dead, so you better get cracking.
 
I fell behind a bit on this thread but have caught up now. My thanks, naturally, to everyone who has shared their thoughts on the matter. 🙂

One time my father was reading I-don’t-remember-what-book, and in talking about prayer it addressed the question “Can I smoke during my prayer time?” with the answer “No, but you can pray during your smoking time.” (This was a number of years ago, and I think the book was already old even then – I recall my dad commenting that "If he were writing today, I bet he wouldn’t have even mentioned smoking.)

I don’t think this answer is merely an exercise in cleverness. Having a designated “prayer time” (which may have various parameters, including not smoking) in no way means that it is only then that one can pray.

Likewise, if someone asks “Can we sing ‘God bless America’ in mass?” perhaps the best response is not “No” but rather “Would you sing it outside of mass? If not, is that because you don’t think God should be mentioned outside of mass?”
 
Peter_J said:
Whoa, what am I, Protestant or something? :eek:

“Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.”
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
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Somewhere just now some anti-Catholic has read that and has fallen off his hobby-horse.

And some Catholic.
 
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