It's so easy to be pro NFP

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danimay said:
…All I was trying to say is that it is hard…scarry…to be in the situation I am in. It is terrifying for my husband to think of losing me. I fear for my children, if I weren’t here to raise them. Of course, no one can fix this for us and I wasn’t asking anyone to. I just thought there might be some supportive people here. People who might just understand that it is serious…not the joke you are trying to make it into. NFP is great and I am all in favor. Prayer’s might help my family, but your snide little comment won’t.
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Prayers for your family.:gopray: Yes, following the Church teachings is easy until it gets difficult.

I’m not particularly “pro NFP”. I respect the Church teachings, and the Church allows NFP as an alternative to total abstinance in preventing pregnancy when there is just reason for avoiding pregnancy. Those are the choices: sex or no sex. Sex–even with contraception, even post sterilization-sometimes results in pregnancy.

Yes, you have a very serious reason for wanting to avoid another pregnancy. Trust in God, and He will not let you down. That isn’t to say that you won’t face severe difficulties in this world. If following Church teachings results in pregnancy, you can be sure that God has His hand involved in your life and wants better for you, your husband and your children than anything you can plan.

Have courage and don’t be afraid. Study the lives of the Saints–they all suffered. Don’t be so afraid for your husband and children that you forget God cares for your family more than you do. St. Therese’s mother died when her children were young and that family’s suffering produced one of the greatest little Saints for the Church. Remain faithful to the Church teachings that you knew to be true when they were easier to follow. It was easy because you trusted God then. Trust Him again.
 
I don’t have anything additional to add, except for my prayers for the OP as well as others who struggle with NFP in the face of the possibility of life threatening pregnancies. I will offer up my (minor) pregnancy discomforts for those of you for whom pregnancy could be deadly, in the hopes that God will provide you and your families the strength to face your situation faithfully.

MJ
 
I will be praying for you and your family. You are a courageous soul. Do yourself a favor and keep praying. Proper discernment takes alot of prayer and time. Get your husband to pray about it also. Let our Lord be your guide.

God Bless you
 
Get that hubby of yours informed. He is afraid to hurt your or lose you, but using artificial contraceptives should scare him even more than NFP! They have failure rates, too.

Have you guys done some hard, deep research on contraceptives in general, how they work, the nuances of different kinds, the schedules for different kinds, etc?

Have you looked for pro-life doctors, or midwives? My mom had 11 single children all v. The smallest one was 8lbs (and that was the only one under 9lbs) the biggest was 11lbs 6oz. With proper delivery methods, messages, timing, etc, your body may be able to do it.

What exactly was the reason for possible death? I don’t know if I missed it or not, but I did want to point out that if you are experiencing hormonal troubles, artificial contraceptives can be twice the burden.
 
P.S. I think it should be noted that it seems doctors in general are very anti-NFP not because it is ineffective but because they have a perception that the average layperson can’t even name the reproductive organs, let alone observe symptoms, follow scientific processes and stick to them.

Heck, most women can’t even swallow their pill everyday, let alone at the same time.

NFP has become quite a science. Many nonmedical people are very unaware of their bodies and how they work, and doctors can get into a “rut” of simply redirecting supposedly “enthusiastic” people back into the system.
 
danimay said:
That is, before you get the “You are risking your life” lecture from your OB. At my last appointment, she asked what my plans are for the future…do I understand the risk? I said yes, I am concerned…I don’t want to end up with blood transfusions and a hysterectomy, ect. She stopped me, saying " Dani, I don’t want you to die!". This is my fourth c-section in nearly five years and I have had previous abdominal surgery in the same area. I also have a severe luteal phase defect and then gestational diabetes. She says internal scarring is a huge issue with me and if I go into labor before my scheduled surgery, an emergency c-section would be a nightmare.
My husband says he is not risking it. I can’t stop thinking about it.
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No method is 100% effective and your doc says, “You are risking your life…”? “I don’t want you to die!”? Again, no method is 100% effective and NFP is the healthiest one of them from every angle. These docs… these days… 🤷
 
danimay said:
I am sorry you are facing a similar situation. It’s so hard to just accept any risk when the outcome could be so serious. I will be praying for your family. Thanks for sharing your story with me.
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Thank you. I will be praying for your family as well. 🙂
 
I have congenital heart defects and am in heart failure. Another pregnancy will kill me barring a miracle from God. We do have one daughter who is now 12. I use the sympto-thermal method of NFP and have for 11 years without pregnancy.I like it because I see my temps rise when I ovulate and to me it not something open to interpretation like cervical muscus which makes me feel more confident about using it.

If I were to become pregnant again I would have stop the dangerous meds I take that keep my heart from completely failing and place myself in the hands of God. I eventually will need a transplant regardless but I were to stop the meds I wouldn’t even survive the pregnancy.

It was scary, especially in the beginning, even though eleven years ago my chances of possibly surviving the pregnancy in time for a transplant were greater -now there’s a zero chance unless God intervened. I am always happy to see my period every month that’s for sure. We have been blessed so unbelievable since we tossed the contraceptives and placed our trust in God. My marriage is happier, stronger -it’s improved 1000 fold from 11 years.

It’s not always easy but it is sooo worth it. I will keep you in my prayers. God Bless.
 
Hi Danimay,

I will be praying for you. It sounds like our little ones are spaced about the same. However, we aren’t expecting #4 yet. Hopefully God will answer that prayer soon. I, too have had 3 C/S and 2 babies over 9 pounds and have severe medical conditions to consider prior to conceiving again.

A few months ago, I was speaking to a friend about our plans for our family. She asked if we are planning on TTC again. I told her that yes we are. When she questioned me about it, I told her that if God is going to bless our marriage with another pregnancy, then He will get me through it. If I don’t, that is God’s will. All of his plans are better than ours anyway.

Please do not let your husband kill your marital relationship by having a surgical procedure. In fact, it could harm not just his soul, it could harm his body, too. Please see here. This link addresses mainly the physical side-effects of the procedure.

Is your DH Catholic? If so, he needs to also consider that if he undergoes this procedure, he will fall into a state of mortal sin.

Beg him to pray with you daily about this particular struggle. I know that it is scary to face what you are facing. I am glad to hear that he has such profound concern for you and your family. It shows that his heart is in the right place.

However, he is allowing fear to enter. When we allow that to happen, we begin to doubt God because fear allows the devil to subtly sneak into our thoughts. Just sit down and meditate on the fact that you were able to conceive a baby without progesterone for support. Is that a fearful event? See how good God is to us? He gives us just what we need when we need it most!

Please allow peace to enter your hearts and cast out all fear. God does not want you or your DH to fear. He wants you to enjoy the gift that He has given you-the present moment.

God bless you!
 
Dear Danimay, I don’t think it is easy to be pro!
I wonder about all those Catholics who treat NFP as the answer to all questions. What would they have told you if we had lived 40 years ago when this technique wasn’t even invented yet. And most people in the world still don’t know a thing about it. I think all this talk about NFP is starting to bother me. The church says NFP is the only right and sure way to avoid pregnancy. At the same time it says that we should use NFP because it is open to life. And then it is said that condoms are not as sure as NFP. With all that talk about openness to life I start to wonder why then Catholics are not told to use the condom instead, sinse it is said to be the less effective means against unwanted pregnancy.
… But when it really comes down to it the question is if a woman has a right to decide when/if she wants to get pregnant at a certain time or not. Today the Church is in favour of this. So luckily something new turned up: Natural FP. Which really has the same affect as a condom, and which can be said to frustrate the openness to life before sex even occurs (with charges and temp measures ect). You want to know what I think. I think there is no difference between condoms and NFP. I also think Jesus wanted us to be happy. This law that creates hopelessness for you and many others, I am not convinced it is really a law of Christ. He Who said: The truth will set you free. My parents used condoms for 7 years with no problem. Then they were ready to have kids, 3 lovely girls. My mum almost died at her third delivery and I am happy she belongs to a branch of Christianity that allows condoms or she might not be here today. Also I have never seen a happier couple than my parents. If people say NFP users hardly have any divorses I think it is due to the fact that NFP users are usually serious catholics who don’t acknowledge divorce! I wish you all the best.
 
danimay said:
This kind of flippant post doesn’t help. Are you trying to be cute? I find your comment very disrespectful. All I was trying to say is that it is hard…scarry…to be in the situation I am in. It is terrifying for my husband to think of losing me. I fear for my children, if I weren’t here to raise them. Of course, no one can fix this for us and I wasn’t asking anyone to. I just thought there might be some supportive people here. People who might just understand that it is serious…not the joke you are trying to make it into. NFP is great and I am all in favor. Prayer’s might help my family, but your snide little comment won’t.
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I wasn’t being snide or joking. I was honestly wondering how NFP could be dangerous. I thought it was so much healthier than artificial birth control, and that it didn’t have any complications.
 
Annibc said:
Dear Danimay, I don’t think it is easy to be pro!
I wonder about all those Catholics who treat NFP as the answer to all questions. What would they have told you if we had lived 40 years ago when this technique wasn’t even invented yet. And most people in the world still don’t know a thing about it. I think all this talk about NFP is starting to bother me. The church says NFP is the only right and sure way to avoid pregnancy. At the same time it says that we should use NFP because it is open to life. And then it is said that condoms are not as sure as NFP. With all that talk about openness to life I start to wonder why then Catholics are not told to use the condom instead, sinse it is said to be the less effective means against unwanted pregnancy.
… But when it really comes down to it the question is if a woman has a right to decide when/if she wants to get pregnant at a certain time or not. Today the Church is in favour of this. So luckily something new turned up: Natural FP. Which really has the same affect as a condom, and which can be said to frustrate the openness to life before sex even occurs (with charges and temp measures ect). You want to know what I think. I think there is no difference between condoms and NFP. I also think Jesus wanted us to be happy. This law that creates hopelessness for you and many others, I am not convinced it is really a law of Christ. He Who said: The truth will set you free. My parents used condoms for 7 years with no problem. Then they were ready to have kids, 3 lovely girls. My mum almost died at her third delivery and I am happy she belongs to a branch of Christianity that allows condoms or she might not be here today. Also I have never seen a happier couple than my parents. If people say NFP users hardly have any divorses I think it is due to the fact that NFP users are usually serious catholics who don’t acknowledge divorce! I wish you all the best.
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May I recommend that you read Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West? This is an easy book to read in question and answer format. It especially addresses the issues you raise about the Church and Her laws

The reason why couples who chart their fertility have such a lower divorce rate is because they are constantly communicating about their fertility. This positive communication spills over into other realms of marital discussions, too. Also, couples are challenged to evaluate every act of intercourse. Do we want to have another child at this time? More importantly, is God calling us to be open to the gift of another child at this time? If so, will this act of intercourse help us in achieving that goal.

As a couple that uses NFP now, I wish that we had been presented more information about it prior to our wedding. We entered our marriage with the contraceptive mentality and nearly ended up divorced in under three years. I should also add that those first three years were miserable because we did not trust God, nor did we want to trust Him in that aspect of our marriage. Only when we were ready to throw out the contraceptives and their corresponding mentality were we able to connect on the level that married couples are meant to connect.

For those who are so critical of NFP, please give it a serious try (of at least two years) before you go bashing the methods and those who are dedicated to that way of life. Yes, Jesus DOES want us to be happy. But, the only true way to happiness is by the means that He gives us to be happy. As far as marital intimacy goes, that way is without the use of artificial barriers that block more than just the natural process but also the supernatural flow of grace from God.
 
Annibc said:
… I think all this talk about NFP is starting to bother me. The church says NFP is the only right and sure way to avoid pregnancy. At the same time it says that we should use NFP because it is open to life. And then it is said that condoms are not as sure as NFP. With all that talk about openness to life I start to wonder why then Catholics are not told to use the condom instead, sinse it is said to be the less effective means against unwanted pregnancy.
… But when it really comes down to it the question is if a woman has a right to decide when/if she wants to get pregnant at a certain time or not. …I think there is no difference between condoms and NFP. I also think Jesus wanted us to be happy. This law that creates hopelessness for you and many others, I am not convinced it is really a law of Christ. He Who said: The truth will set you free…
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Hi Ann and welcome to CA forums.

I understand how partial understanding of Church teachings and zealous NFP promotion can bother you. It bothers me too. “Openess to life” is an argument that some use, but I don’t think that wording is found in any actual Church documents (and I think that wording can confuse people like yourself.) NFP is not an alternative to contraception; NFP is an alternative to abstinance.

The question is what is the purpose of sex in marriage? The Church says the purpose of sex in marriage is two-fold: unitive and pro-creative. The pro-creative nature of sex is natural to the act as designed by God. That isn’t to say that everytime a couple comes together they must try to concieve a child–the “pro-creative” aspect is inherent to the act unless something (like contraception) blocks it.

In blocking the pro-creative aspect of sex, contraception *also *blocks the unitive aspects of it. The unitive nature of the act or “two become one” occurs quite literally in the sexual act, except when contraception is used. Condoms are a perfect example of this–the two become almost one, but not quite because they are separated by a thin layer of latex. Contraception quite literally comes between the married couple during their most intimate act.

The Church teachings regarding the sacredness of sex and marriage aren’t merely man-made rules. They are rules that teach us how to to love how God loves. These are laws of love, coming from God, not man, and following them helps teach us how to love as God loves. How does God love? With a sacrificial love.

Jesus doesn’t just want us to be just happy–He wants us to be *joyful *and to know joy even in the midst of suffering. Jesus demonstrated most perfectly on the cross that suffering can bring forth salvation, and we are invited to unite our suffering with His.

The hopelessness you speak of doesn’t come from following Church teachings. It comes from failing to understand *several *Church teachings including, the redemptive nature of suffering and sacrifice. If we think we suffer in vain, we won’t be happy. God wants us to live joyful lives, even in the face of suffering and trials. Our suffering in this world is only temporary. We sow in sadness, but we reap in joy.
 
gardenswithkids said:
Hi Ann and welcome to CA forums.

I understand how partial understanding of Church teachings and zealous NFP promotion can bother you. It bothers me too. “Openess to life” is an argument that some use, but I don’t think that wording is found in any actual Church documents (and I think that wording can confuse people like yourself.) NFP is not an alternative to contraception; NFP is an alternative to abstinance.

The question is what is the purpose of sex in marriage? The Church says the purpose of sex in marriage is two-fold: unitive and pro-creative. The pro-creative nature of sex is natural to the act as designed by God. That isn’t to say that everytime a couple comes together they must try to concieve a child–the “pro-creative” aspect is inherent to the act unless something (like contraception) blocks it.

In blocking the pro-creative aspect of sex, contraception *also *blocks the unitive aspects of it. The unitive nature of the act or “two become one” occurs quite literally in the sexual act, except when contraception is used. Condoms are a perfect example of this–the two become almost one, but not quite because they are separated by a thin layer of latex. Contraception quite literally comes between the married couple during their most intimate act.

The Church teachings regarding the sacredness of sex and marriage aren’t merely man-made rules. They are rules that teach us how to to love how God loves. These are laws of love, coming from God, not man, and following them helps teach us how to love as God loves. How does God love? With a sacrificial love.

Jesus doesn’t just want us to be just happy–He wants us to be *joyful *and to know joy even in the midst of suffering. Jesus demonstrated most perfectly on the cross that suffering can bring forth salvation, and we are invited to unite our suffering with His.

The hopelessness you speak of doesn’t come from following Church teachings. It comes from failing to understand *several *Church teachings including, the redemptive nature of suffering and sacrifice. If we think we suffer in vain, we won’t be happy. God wants us to live joyful lives, even in the face of suffering and trials. Our suffering in this world is only temporary. We sow in sadness, but we reap in joy.
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What a beautiful and charitable response! I wish I could have posted my previous response in a manner much more like this. I posted while in a crabby mood earlier. 😊 My sincere apologies for my abrasiveness earlier.
 
Annibc said:
I also think Jesus wanted us to be happy. This law that creates hopelessness for you and many others, I am not convinced it is really a law of Christ. He Who said: The truth will set you free.
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Thought about this last evening. I’m a mom, and of course I want my son to be happy. As I try to be a good mom, there are times when I require things that do not make my child happy. In the mind of my teen, he would be happy if I let him sleep til noon every day, be provided an endless supply of Pepsi, pizza and cheeseburgers, spend his days playing guitar and driving about in a brand new jeep that I pay for and keep full of gas. That new Marshall full stack would make him happy, and he is sure an iPhone would also make him happy.

I know that in the long run, he will be happier if he has an education, if he contributes to the family by doing chores, if he eats nutritious meals and if he earns gifts.

Grandparents will take the grandchild and shower them with every little desire - my MIL would let DS eat ice cream for breakfast.

God is our Father. He knows what is best for us, and sometimes, what is best for us will not make us happy in the right-now, but, someday we will see how it was best for us.

God is NOT our Grandpa.
 
danimay said:
That is, before you get the “You are risking your life” lecture from your OB. At my last appointment, she asked what my plans are for the future…do I understand the risk? I said yes, I am concerned…I don’t want to end up with blood transfusions and a hysterectomy, ect. She stopped me, saying " Dani, I don’t want you to die!". This is my fourth c-section in nearly five years and I have had previous abdominal surgery in the same area. I also have a severe luteal phase defect and then gestational diabetes. She says internal scarring is a huge issue with me and if I go into labor before my scheduled surgery, an emergency c-section would be a nightmare.
My husband says he is not risking it. I can’t stop thinking about it.
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Danimay, we have lived very similar circumstances. I to had four children in three years. (twins in the middle) When I had my last C-section during the surgery, the doctor showed my husband the scaring from all of the surgeries. My placenta was as thin as cellophane, and the doctor said it was a miracle I didn’t rupture during pregnancy. He wanted to do a tubal right then and there. I refused because of the grave sin it would have been.

My husband is not catholic. He never understood my rufusal to use ABC during our marriage, but he was willing to go along with it until he was faced with the prospect of raising four kids as a single dad so he took matters into his own hands.

I know that we should trust in God, that we should give our lives over to Him no matter what the consequences, but that’s alot harder to say when faced with life altering decisions that may have the most dire of consequences. For me, it wasn’t my own life that I was concerned with, it was the children that I already had. As I said my husband is not catholic, and as much as I think he is a good dad, I know that my children would not continue to be raised in the faith if something were to happen to me. I cannot bear this thought. They are to young to go it alone at this point. Unfortunately, I unlike some, do not have a spouse who was willing to remain abstainant for the rest of his life, so he got a V.

I felt great guilt over his decision and went to confession. I now no longer feel guilt over this. This will be something I will struggle with for the rest of my married life. Are we living in a non-sacramental marriage? Have we denied ourselves access to the graces given in a sacramental marriage? I don’t know the answers to these questions. I only know that this marriage and all the decisions and consequences that have come out of it are my cross to bear in life. I try to bear it faithfully and offer my sufferings up to Christ. This is the only advise I can offer you. I will pray for you and your family.

PS I am always amazed at how little charity is extended toward those struggling with this issue. Not speaking specifically about this thread, but I have seen many uncharitable posts in the past.
This is not easy, and it’s not always about selfishness on the part of the couple. Sometimes it’s hard to know what you would do until you walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. So in the meantime what couples like this need more than anything else is your prayers and kindness. They are already dealing with enough pain and confussion, and the best advise we can offer them is to seek out the counsil of their priest.
 
Thankyou for your post, Marci. You really are in a situation VERY similar to mine. My husband isn’t catholic either…and there is nothing that I can do to change his mind about going through with the V…he has made up his mind and let me know it. It is just a matter of time. Has your husband had any ill-effects from the procedure?
 
danimay said:
Thankyou for your post, Marci. You really are in a situation VERY similar to mine. My husband isn’t catholic either…and there is nothing that I can do to change his mind about going through with the V…he has made up his mind and let me know it. It is just a matter of time. Has your husband had any ill-effects from the procedure?
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No, but he said the procedure itself was VERY painful. Although somehow I don’t think it was as bad as a C-section. 😉
You know men, a feather grazes them “down there” and they get stomach cramps.
 
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