It's the crazy people

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

… that I have a problem with.

I like the Latin Mass. I want to see more altar boys, and priests facing the altar. I prefer to kneel to receive on the tongue. I agree that there is a crisis in the Church caused by people who think the Church makes “progress.” I wish I heard more homilies that actually taught me something useful.

So why is it that I am hostile towards the SSPX? Because I have had too many bad experiences with weird, angry, crazy people.

On two occasions here in Glasgow, I have told someone that I attend the diocesan Latin Mass, only to be told that I shouldn’t go there - I should go to the SSPX chapel, instead. When I said, “We’re just not comfortable with going there,” I was subjected to a barrage of emails full of arguments for the SSPX… full of allusions to my “blind obedience” and my being “in the dark.” The arguments were the same arguments I’ve read and considered many times, with links to the same documents we’ve all seen. Right now, I’m thinking of how to tactfully tell some woman from the homeschooling group that my decision to eschew the SSPX is based on the words of Bishops Williamson and Fellay… I think she must assume that I am ignorant and, as soon as I read her emails, I’ll be enlightened and join her.

I have seen people who attend the SSPX come to the diocesan Mass and try to convince the rest of us that we should go to the SSPX. Right now, there is a quarrel over whether or not to hand out flyers promoting the SSPX (after Mass, on church property!)

Every time I have interacted with someone who attends the SSPX, I have gotten the distinct impression that their tin foil hats are screwed on too tight. Just last Sunday, there was a nun at coffee hour who works in the Sudan. She was telling us about genuine persecution of Christians - torture, starvation, genocide. She was trying to tell a story about two starving orphans she’d rescued, but these people who promote the SSPX kept interrupting her with the strangest things… angry comments and diversions about the war in Iraq and how Islam hates the West… and my friends and I were dumbfounded. I mean, she was at the dramatic climax of her story - having just found the wounded, starving orphans under a bush - and the crazy people interrupted with some comment about Tony Blair.

I see it on message boards, too. Not just on here - I also read things on boards like Fisheaters and Angelqueen. Over and over again, I see weird, crazy rants. There’s a difference between those rants and the complaints of faithful traditionalists who are frustrated by things in the parishes. One is weirdly rejoicing in bitterness, and the other is not.

When I read the writings of bishops Williams and Fellay, I see the same craziness. From 9-11 conspiracies to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.… I’m sorry, but that is just wacked.

I and my husband and our friends do not hate Tradition. We just don’t buy into The Crazy.

 

[markadm]

Crazy people are never healthy.

I know some SSPX folks who are not crazy, but I know some who are.

I would ignore the diatribes and go to your Diocesan Priest, or - if you are ever through in Edinburgh - come and visit with the FSSP Priest.

If they (SSPX) ever give you good arguments of why to go, then by all means go, but if they just seem crazy and make you uncomfortable, then of course don’t go!!

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Crazy people are never healthy.

I know some SSPX folks who are not crazy, but I know some who are.

I would ignore the diatribes and go to your Diocesan Priest, or - if you are ever through in Edinburgh - come and visit with the FSSP Priest.

If they (SSPX) ever give you good arguments of why to go, then by all means go, but if they just seem crazy and make you uncomfortable, then of course don’t go!!

There’s talk of carpooling to Edinburgh this summer, since the diocesan Mass isn’t happening in July or August while the priest is out of town.

I expect there are crazy people in any church… but, with the SSPX, the things I consider “crazy” appear to be official policy, coming from the bishops.

My personal experience with Patricia MacKeever of Catholic Truth Scotland was another unpleasant experience. I hear she’s gone out of her way to detract from the FSSP Mass in Edinburgh.

 

[markadm]

Ah, yes; I had heard the Masses would stop over the summer. By all means come over - I will assume we have many friends in common from Glasgow.

Yes, “she” has been busy in the past. Very sad; very sad.

 

[tcraig]

As a former protestant living in the South in the U.S. I have a lot of experience with protestant fundamentalist groups. They are defined mainly by their “separatist” mentality.

I see that in the SSPX. There are so many similarities to protestant fundamentalists that it’s eerie. You can see it in their dress; the attitude that they are somehow the only ones interpreting church documents correctly (the bible with the fundies); the insistence that the Douay-Rheims bible is the only correct one to use (KJV only with fundies), etc. There is a strict overemphasis on the roles of men and women, with many insisting that women don’t need college or higher education and that they should only be trained to be wives and mothers.

Sometimes when I read the posts over at the other forums you mentioned, it’s as if they have stolen the fundamentalist playbook and have just given it a Catholic spin. They prooftext encyclicals rather than the bible.

These attitudes do exist, to some degree, in traditionalists at diocesan approved masses. I certainly ran into some of it at my FSSP parish. And I’m sure there are people who attend the SSPX who do so simply out of desperation for a decent mass and don’t buy into all the weirdness.

But yes, the Crazy does exist and it’s good to avoid it.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Unfortunately, The Crazy tend to be The Noisy. I think there are many bishops who think that people who want a Latin Mass are mostly crazies. (Remember that one guy on here who wrote letters to every priest in his diocese, demanding to know when they would say the Latin Mass, and then insulting them by asking if they even knew Latin?)

I’m considering writing the Archbishop of Glasgow to tell him that we’re not all crazy people. But, that the crazy people are threatening to ruin it for everybody by running around starting fights and even actively trying to discourage people from attending diocesan Latin Masses.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Unfortunately, The Crazy tend to be The Noisy. I think there are many bishops who think that people who want a Latin Mass are mostly crazies. (Remember that one guy on here who wrote letters to every priest in his diocese, demanding to know when they would say the Latin Mass, and then insulting them by asking if they even knew Latin?)

I’m considering writing the Archbishop of Glasgow to tell him that we’re not all crazy people. But, that the crazy people are threatening to ruin it for everybody by running around starting fights and even actively trying to discourage people from attending diocesan Latin Masses.

Have you been threatened with lawsuits by a SSPX adherent just because you disagree with them? I have twice on other boards by one.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Have you been threatened with lawsuits by a SSPX adherent just because you disagree with them? I have twice on other boards by one.

LOL. No.

Was this twice by the same adherent, or two different times by two different people?

More craziness happened, today… I don’t really even know how to explain it. But, I was the lucky recipient of a CC of an email between two of the nutters in which I was called a half-baked, clueless, liar. And all I had done was said, “We’re not comfortable with attending the Mass at St. Andrews, but we’re praying for unity in the Church!”

 

[peregrinus_WA]

LOL. No.

Was this twice by the same adherent, or two different times by two different people?

More craziness happened, today… I don’t really even know how to explain it. But, I was the lucky recipient of a CC of an email between two of the nutters in which I was called a half-baked, clueless, liar. And all I had done was said, “We’re not comfortable with attending the Mass at St. Andrews, but we’re praying for unity in the Church!”

Same one. The scary thing is he is now a Deputy down in GA.

 

[tcraig]

Unfortunately, The Crazy tend to be The Noisy. I think there are many bishops who think that people who want a Latin Mass are mostly crazies.

Yes, that’s too true.

It’s also frustrating because there are Noisy Crazies in the NO, so that everytime a self-defined traditionalist mentions a NO mass they have to highlight the goofiest and most “out there” ones available, as if everyone who attends the NO mass is in favor of priests dressed up like Bozo the Clown and EMHC’s wearing devil costumes, liturgical dancing, drum sets and electric guitars (a particular whole-lotta-crazy that I’m dealing with right now), etc.

~sigh~ What to do, what to do …

 

[Fitswimmer]

As a former protestant living in the South in the U.S. I have a lot of experience with protestant fundamentalist groups. They are defined mainly by their “separatist” mentality.

I see that in the SSPX. There are so many similarities to protestant fundamentalists that it’s eerie. You can see it in their dress; the attitude that they are somehow the only ones interpreting church documents correctly (the bible with the fundies); the insistence that the Douay-Rheims bible is the only correct one to use (KJV only with fundies), etc. There is a strict overemphasis on the roles of men and women, with many insisting that women don’t need college or higher education and that they should only be trained to be wives and mothers.

Sometimes when I read the posts over at the other forums you mentioned, it’s as if they have stolen the fundamentalist playbook and have just given it a Catholic spin. They prooftext encyclicals rather than the bible.

These attitudes do exist, to some degree, in traditionalists at diocesan approved masses. I certainly ran into some of it at my FSSP parish. And I’m sure there are people who attend the SSPX who do so simply out of desperation for a decent mass and don’t buy into all the weirdness.

But yes, the Crazy does exist and it’s good to avoid it.

I see the same thing. The fundamentalist Protestant kids I met in college had the same wild-eyed expression that the SSPX folks that used to attend our chapel had. They were just plain scary.

Fortunately, they all got mad when the Diocese called in the Institute of Christ the King to serve us and went off and established their own place.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, that’s too true.

It’s also frustrating because there are Noisy Crazies in the NO, so that everytime a self-defined traditionalist mentions a NO mass they have to highlight the goofiest and most “out there” ones available, as if everyone who attends the NO mass is in favor of priests dressed up like Bozo the Clown and EMHC’s wearing devil costumes, liturgical dancing, drum sets and electric guitars (a particular whole-lotta-crazy that I’m dealing with right now), etc.

~sigh~ What to do, what to do …

Yes, it gets very frustrating. I think the worst disservice that the “fringe” people offer is that they become cannon fodder for those on the other side.

If you don’t approve of liturgical dancing and clown Masses, then you must be a wacko-traditionalist who denies Vatican II, thinks that the NO is invlaid, and, of course, is judgmental and thinks you’re holier than the pope.

On the other hand, if you think the NO is valid and Vatican II was a good thing, then you must be a wacko-modernist who hates Latin, considers pizza and beer valid matter for the celebration of the Eucharist, and wears big floppy shoes and a red nose that honks when serving as a lector.

Why do we assume that those we disagree with are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum?

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I honestly don’t know if The Crazy are just a very vocal minority, or if they are actually the majority. I do consider Bishop Williams to be one of The Crazy.

What I worry about is the people who might get sucked in. I really am starting to believe that they are a cult. Based on things I’ve seen, that is.

 

[estesbob]

I had a raher uncomfortable experience at my Old parish. i was back in KC and dropped by the Church i was baptized in, married in and had my children baptized in. i often go there for daily mass when I am in town. There is a “traditional” Catholic group that has permission to have a Latin mass there every day at noon. i had forgotten about this and on Saturday around 1PM I was nearby so I though Id drop int. well there were all sorts of kids in the parking lot all dressed up the way i remember us dressing when I wentt to that Church in the 50s. Then an adlut came out and strarted telling me how great** **Church was . Well i know this sunds petty but My Grandparents helped build this Church and my parents and sibeings were all active in this Church and these INTERLOPERS who only rented space were bragging about THEIR church. So you know what i did!!! I told them yes it is a great Church and I got my car and drove off:blush: