It's time for us to lay down our arms!

  • Thread starter Thread starter ncjohn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

ncjohn

Guest
Shortly before the death of St. Francis, a great division arose within the City of Assisi between supporters of the Mayor and the Bishop because of the mingling of politics and religion that was common to the time. It became so bad that people were choosing sides and the city was on the verge of open violence.

Into this scene of hositility, where no one had dared to attempt mediation, came St. Francis, who had been supported by each of these men. From the bed where he was confined he asked the brothers to sing to the Mayor and Bishop these new verses, which he had added to his beautiful Canticle of Creatures, words that were to bring peace between them:

Praised be You, my Lord, through those who give pardon for Your love, and bear infirmity and tribulation.

Blessed are those who endure in peace
for by You, Most High, shall they be crowned.

We see in our Church today, as shown on these boards far too often, a growing enmity between those with different liturgical preferences and different views toward the importance of “tradition”. Are we not members of the same Body of Chirst though? Are we not working to bring about the same Kingdom? As St. Paul said, “Is Christ divided?”

How can we possibly hope to bring the peace of Christ to this weary world, that is more in need of it than ever, if we cannot even be civil with each other? How can we model the non-violence of Jesus if we are ready to take up arms against our brothers and sisters?

When the disciples were wanting to rain down fire on a group who was working in the name of Jesus, simply because they were not of their band, Jesus warned them off, saying “Anyone who is not against us is for us” and reminding them that others could not work wonders in his name while being against him.

It’s time to stop acting like spoiled children and to start “sharing our toys.” It is time to start acting like the mature followers of Christ who we all claim to be. It’s time to lay down our swords and pick up our crosses, and to recognize that our crosses are what unite us.

Father, we have sinned before you in dividing your people. We forget that we are all your beloved children and that we are all called to proclaim your Kingdom. Bring to us this day the peace that might guide us to do Your will, and the patient forebearance to deal with each other in the spirit of Your love.
 
By the sacrament of Confirmation, we become soldiers of Christ. Laying down arms is a sign of surrender to the enemy, can’t allow that.
 
Great post ncjohn- Jesus himself spoke in the strongest possible terms about the importance of unity

Speaking of His Church, the Saviour called it a kingdom, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God Matthew 13:24, 31, 33; Luke 13:18; John 18:36]; He compared it to a city the keys of which were entrusted to the Apostles Matthew 5:14; 16:19], to a sheepfold to which all His sheep must come and be united under one shepherd John 10:7-17]; to a vine and its branches, to a house built upon a rock against which not even the powers of hell should ever prevail (Matthew 16:18).

Moreover, the Saviour, just before He suffered, prayed for His disciples, for those who were afterwards to believe in Him - for His Church - that they might be and remain one as He and the Father are one John 17:20-23]; and He had already warned them that “every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand” Matthew 12:25]. As we can see, Christ’s words are expressive of the closest unity. This stance is echoed by St. Paul, who brands schism and disunion as crimes to be classed with murder and debauchery, and declares that those guilty of “dissensions” and “sects” shall not obtain the kingdom of God Galatians 5:20-21].
 
Bob, and who is the “enemy?” Our brother or sister in Christ, if they prefer a different liturgy? John’s post seemingly went right over your head, if I read you correctly. If you meant something else, it was not very clear.

Could you not have responded to the content of his post? Was there nothing of value in John’s words that struck at the heart of our problems?
 
http://bestsmileys.com/wow/3.gif

John, a beautiful post! May we listen to it with our hearts and apply it to our lives.
  1. The eucharistic mystery helps us to understand the profound meaning of the communio sanctorum. Communion always and inseparably has both a vertical and a horizontal sense: it is communion with God and communion with our brothers and sisters. Both dimensions mysteriously converge in the gift of the Eucharist. “Wherever communion with God, which is communion with the Father, with the Son and with the Holy Spirit, is destroyed, the root and source of our communion with one another is destroyed. And wherever we do not live communion among ourselves, communion with the Triune God is not alive and true either.”
Click to expand...
vatican.va/holy_father/be…itatis_en.html
Click to expand...
I think if we just keep praying for our weaker members and plant solid seeds of instruction, maybe some day a few hearts will see God’s beautiful truth in the underlying meaning of Eucharist.

Carole
 
Interesting post, but by what do you mean “lay down our arms”?
 
Caesar said:
Interesting post, but by what do you mean “lay down our arms”?
Click to expand...
That it’s time to stop the “war” between Catholics with different liturgical preferences and get our focus back on jointly proclaiming the Kingdom.
 
BobP123 said:
By the sacrament of Confirmation, we become soldiers of Christ. Laying down arms is a sign of surrender to the enemy, can’t allow that.
Click to expand...
I think you’re intentionally misinterpreting here. We still have to fight for God…but do we have to be so cutthroat when we’re trying to convince other Catholics of something? 🤷

Frankly, I’m getting sick of reading in this forum because EVERYTHING turns into a fight. Nothing is put charitably. I’m ashamed to say it, but we Traditionalists are not representing ourselves very well on this forum. A lot of our posts sound egotistical. That is not the way to win people over to our way of thinking.

I’m not backing down on any of my beliefs. I simply think that many of us are too proud…and I’m not pointing any fingers.
 
ncjohn said:
That it’s time to stop the “war” between Catholics with different liturgical preferences and get our focus back on jointly proclaiming the Kingdom.
Click to expand...
And what Kingdom is it-- that we would be jointly proclaiming.

[Edited by Moderator]
 
John, this was a very profound and beautifully written post. 😃 Christ has found a voice on CAF and that is you! 👍 You are blessed my friend ❤️:hug1:

:gopray2:
 
Walking_Home said:
And what Kingdom is it-- that we would be jointly proclaiming.

[Edited by Moderator]
Click to expand...
As a non-Catholic (non-christian for that matter), someone from the outside looking in; perhaps 1 Timothy 6:4 would be a good verse to meditate on if you can’t see the point of ncjohn’s reasonable & IMO much needed post. It seems you’re being intentionally argumentative for it’s own sake.

Oh, & hi all, my first post.
 
Elixir said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home​

And what Kingdom is it-- that we would be jointly proclaiming.

[Edited by Moderator]

As a non-Catholic (non-christian for that matter), someone from the outside looking in; perhaps 1 Timothy 6:4 would be a good verse to meditate on if you can’t see the point of ncjohn’s reasonable & IMO much needed post. It seems you’re being intentionally argumentative for it’s own sake.

Oh, & hi all, my first post.
Click to expand...
If my post had not been edited----you would have understood the context of my question.
 
Elixir said:
As a non-Catholic (non-christian for that matter), someone from the outside looking in; perhaps 1 Timothy 6:4 would be a good verse to meditate on if you can’t see the point of ncjohn’s reasonable & IMO much needed post. It seems you’re being intentionally argumentative for it’s own sake.

Oh, & hi all, my first post.
Click to expand...
Hi Elixir, welcome to the forums 🙂 Thank you for pointing that verse out. I just read it. Amazing how someone comes along non-Catholic and non-Christian and ends up pointing out a simple bible verse to us. I think God is trying to tell us something 😉
 
Part of the problem is that people tend to be more rude and crude when typing as opposed to saying anything to your face. As soon as someone says something that gets your dander up, some do what they’d never do in person - get abrasive and insulting, even name-calling. I’ve seen at least a few instances where someone actually - agressively - stated or asked if the poster was “crazy”. Can you imagine saying that to someone’s face? I’ll bet the persons who wrote that would never.

I love my Church, my Pope, my Bishop, my mass, but not the way some here say it should be loved. For me, if you adhere to the entire cateshism, obedient to your Bishop and pastor, then I don’t care which way you want to face or speak during mass. Some of you, on the other hand would like to see people like me kicked off this board because I don’t think like you.

So many people are so quick to rip into you if they don’t agree with you. When I read that sort thing I always wonder how many Protestants are reading this and saying "see how paganism breeds such ugliness!"

You unkind, rude posters give all Catholics a bad name.😦
BTW, St. Paul said a very similar statement when chastising believers for fighting amongst themselves.
 
ddeluna said:
I love my Church, my Pope, my Bishop, my mass, but not the way some here say it should be loved. For me, if you adhere to the entire cateshism, obedient to your Bishop and pastor, then I don’t care which way you want to face or speak during mass. Some of you, on the other hand would like to see people like me kicked off this board because I don’t think like you.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
ddeluna said:
You unkind, rude posters give all Catholics a bad name.😦
BTW, St. Paul said a very similar statement when chastising believers for fighting amongst themselves.
Click to expand...
We do need to be charitable.

On the other hand there is a worrying amount of self-delusion in the Church today, almost always from liberals. There is no point pretending that a parish is a community of love with a committed and deeply spiritual membership who reach out to everyone, when the reality is that the parish is not even viable. Or rather there is a point, it keeps morale up amongst those who are at least the last to fall away, but the cost is high.
 
AquinaSavio said:
I think you’re intentionally misinterpreting here. We still have to fight for God…but do we have to be so cutthroat when we’re trying to convince other Catholics of something? 🤷

Frankly, I’m getting sick of reading in this forum because EVERYTHING turns into a fight. Nothing is put charitably. I’m ashamed to say it, but we Traditionalists are not representing ourselves very well on this forum. A lot of our posts sound egotistical. That is not the way to win people over to our way of thinking.

I’m not backing down on any of my beliefs. I simply think that many of us are too proud…and I’m not pointing any fingers.
Click to expand...
As the saying goes—If you can’t stand the heat—get out of the kitchen. Let others bear the burden of keeping the TLM alive—as have those who in the past—have kept the TLM from disappearing into oblivion. I thank them—for you to have the option of having the TLM to attend.
 
On the other hand there is a worrying amount of self-delusion in the Church today, almost always from liberals.
Click to expand...
There it is again, that word which has never been specifically defined, yet is often used derogatorily to depict a certain type of person. Is your post meant to say that anyone who attends the ordinary rite is self-deluded and a liberal?

Your words: We do need to be charitable.

Indeed, beginning with terminology and labeling — especially when they are used in such a general manner that they fail in clarity, and imply generalities of a specific group of people.
 
Walking_Home said:
And what Kingdom is it-- that we would be jointly proclaiming.
Click to expand...
:hmmm: Kingdom of God? 🙂

I see ncjohn’s point. I think it’s a matter of goals. If your goal is to fight to preserve the TLM, great! As you have pointed out, some have had to do so in schism, which is very sad. However, we are at a point today where the TLM is having a resurgence, and the Motu Proprio will further that. 👍

If your goal is to destroy the Pauline Mass, then perhaps you should “lay down your arms.” Keep encouraging the resurgence of the TLM by focusing on its reverence, and the Pauline Mass will hopefully diminish.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top