It's time for us to lay down our arms!

[BobP123]

I think you’re intentionally misinterpreting here. We still have to fight for God…but do we have to be so cutthroat when we’re trying to convince other Catholics of something?

Frankly, I’m getting sick of reading in this forum because EVERYTHING turns into a fight. Nothing is put charitably. I’m ashamed to say it, but we Traditionalists are not representing ourselves very well on this forum. A lot of our posts sound egotistical. That is not the way to win people over to our way of thinking.

I’m not backing down on any of my beliefs. I simply think that many of us are too proud…and I’m not pointing any fingers.

Sometimes I question the motives of some that don’t think they can deal with the TLM as it is but decide to post on this forum anyway. What is their agenda? Collecting brownie points from God or from their bishops? Getting high-fives from their cohorts whenever they start these “peace-making” threads? Certainly not to spread the availability of the TLM to those that would or could desire it.

Personally, I find discussions with Protestants and even atheists much more friendly than those who come prepared to fight the Church traditionalists and say they come in peace.

*Timeo Danaos et dona ferentis! *(I fear the Greeks, even if they offer gifts.)

I guess the only viable solution is to put these individuals on ignore and keep them there. They’re out of my hands.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home​

And what Kingdom is it-- that we would be jointly proclaiming.

Kingdom of God?

I see ncjohn’s point. I think it’s a matter of goals. If your goal is to fight to preserve the TLM, great! As you have pointed out, some have had to do so in schism, which is very sad. However, we are at a point today where the TLM is having a resurgence, and the Motu Proprio will further that.

If your goal is to destroy the Pauline Mass, then perhaps you should “lay down your arms.” Keep encouraging the resurgence of the TLM by focusing on its reverence, and the Pauline Mass will hopefully diminish.

---

As I said to a previous poster. To get the context in which I asked the question—the edited section is needed.

I have no desire to destroy the NO Mass—what I do desire is for people to stop manipulating it —and let the NO be said --as the Church has directed.

 

[rlg94086]

---

As I said to a previous poster. To get the context in which I asked the question—the edited section is needed.

I have no desire to destroy the NO Mass—what I do desire is for people to stop manipulating it —and let the NO be said --as the Church has directed.

Great! Again, I happen to see things moving slowly in that direction. However, it does depend on where you are. Things look better from a more orthodox parish, but attending Mass on a quick trip to California for business or vacation does make me cringe sometimes.

 

[AquinaSavio]

---

As the saying goes—If you can’t stand the heat—get out of the kitchen. Let others bear the burden of keeping the TLM alive—as have those who in the past—have kept the TLM from disappearing into oblivion. I thank them—for you to have the option of having the TLM to attend.

“If you can’t stand the heat—get out of the kitchen.” Is that supposed to excuse uncharitableness? I don’t get your point.

I fight for the TLM to be kept alive. I’m hoping to join the ICRSS, because I love it so much and feel that it is so important…however it is possible to keep it alive and not violate the virtue of charity.

Sometimes I question the motives of some that don’t think they can deal with the TLM as it is but decide to post on this forum anyway. What is their agenda? Collecting brownie points from God or from their bishops? Getting high-fives from their cohorts whenever they start these “peace-making” threads? Certainly not to spread the availability of the TLM to those that would or could desire it.

Are you referring to me?

Personally, I find discussions with Protestants and even atheists much more friendly than those who come prepared to fight the Church traditionalists and say they come in peace.

However, when you fight with these people without love, you stoop to their level.

I am drawn to the ICRSS because they emphasize spreading tradition with charity. It would seem to me that you are not trying to bring people back to the TLM, but to push them away. Personally, I think it’s better to stick to St. Francis de Sales’ method.

:twocents:

 

[Cat]

John, thanks for a very nice post. I agree.

Since my surgery in March, I’ve spent a great deal of time on this Forum during my convalescence. Obviously one can’t learn everything in 12 weeks, but I have learned a lot more about the Traditionalists than I knew before.

I think it is the Traditionalist faction, not the modernist faction, that is making the Catholic Church more “Protestant” and more “liberal.”

When people are constantly questioning and criticizing their leaders and accusing the leaders of errors, this makes other lay people feel more comfortable questioning the leaders and eventually even the teachings of the church.

After all, if the Church is doing somethign wrong to allow receiving Communion on the hand, maybe the Church is also doing something wrong to forbid homosexual sex or female ordination or even abortion.

 

[AquinaSavio]

I think it is the Traditionalist faction, not the modernist faction, that is making the Catholic Church more “Protestant” and more “liberal.”

When people are constantly questioning and criticizing their leaders and accusing the leaders of errors, this makes other lay people feel more comfortable questioning the leaders and eventually even the teachings of the church.

Previous Popes (including many saints) warned about the errors that have come into the Church today. Just because the Church allowed it doesn’t mean it is good. Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the Jews’ hearts…was it right? No.

 

[Walking_Home]

“If you can’t stand the heat—get out of the kitchen.” Is that supposed to excuse uncharitableness? I don’t get your point.

I fight for the TLM to be kept alive. I’m hoping to join the ICRSS, because I love it so much and feel that it is so important…however it is possible to keep it alive and not violate the virtue of charity.

Are you referring to me?

However, when you fight with these people without love, you stoop to their level.

I am drawn to the ICRSS because they emphasize spreading tradition with charity. It would seem to me that you are not trying to bring people back to the TLM, but to push them away. Personally, I think it’s better to stick to St. Francis de Sales’ method.

:twocents:

---

What I see happening—is the use of that old device—of divide and conquer. Keep telling people how divisive, prideful, etc., etc.,etc.—it will eventually make some believe it. It has become a much used --and apparently successful tool.

 

[BobP123]

Are you referring to me?

I was addressing you (te). I was not referring to you. (te)

However, when you fight with these people without love, you stoop to their level.

I didn’t say I didn’t love them. I think putting them on ignore is most charitable.

I am drawn to the ICRSS because they emphasize spreading tradition with charity.

I am too. But I regard the FSSP, SSPX, and the Cantius order as most charitable as well.

It would seem to me that you are not trying to bring people back to the TLM, but to push them away.

So I’ve been told. (OOPS, your words. )

 

[AquinaSavio]

---

What I see happening—is the use of that old device—of divide and conquer. Keep telling people how divisive, prideful, etc., etc.,etc.—it will eventually make some believe it. It has become a much used --and apparently successful tool.

Are you saying that there’s no possibility that some posters are being uncharitable?

 

[AquinaSavio]

I was addressing you (te). I was not referring to you. (te)

Just wanted to make sure.

I am too. But I regard the FSSP, SSPX, and the Cantius order as most charitable as well.

You’re being argumentative…I never said that they weren’t.

So I’ve been told. (OOPS, your words. )

I guess people just don’t like some friendly advice/constructive criticism.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread closed.