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PJM
Guest
Thank YOU!
A I asked the question prompted by your response [YES I know it was of topic], but this is after all a Catholic Form
God Bless you!
Patrick
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A I asked the question prompted by your response [YES I know it was of topic], but this is after all a Catholic Form
God Bless you!
Patrick
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Peter_J
Guest
Hi again. I don’t think I ever answered the OP’s question, but may I say that what I don’t like about participating on CAF is when Protestants make comments like the above. Just because some Catholics aren’t as legalistic as some posters and bloggers (or “traditionalist Catholics” generally) are, does not mean we aren’t obedient.
Heck, I like to think that I’m more obedient than the ultra-legalistic “more-Catholic than-the-Pope” posters.
P
PJM
Guest
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steido01
Guest
Like you, I generally lean toward skepticism. After all, there remains a certain breed of pugnacious folk present in all denominations who tend to exaggerate (often greatly and without much information) how widespread such abuses are. Yet that doesn’t make actual abuses any less real. Even the boy who cried ‘Wolf!’ was correct once, and that story ended with very real abuse. Just a thought.
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LutheranScholar
Guest
Exactly. Martin Luther’s Reformation didn’t exactly occur without cause and people being people won’t always toe the line. Fortunately, President Harrison is working to do away with such abuses in the LCMS’ case. I don’t understand the concept of " Deferred Vicars" that well, but I’m sure there would be a validly ordained minister who would consecrate the elements before such a person would celebrate Holy Communion ( at least, that was the practice of our Lay Minister when he was serving at our parish). Of course vigilance is called for.
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arthra
Guest
Basically to respond to any questions about Baha’i Faith… and share our common experience!For my non-Catholic brothers and sisters of all faiths:
I’ve noticed many of you have been at Catholic Answers Forums for many months (or years), what is it about these forums that keeps you returning to them again and again?
PS…We LOVE having you here!:flowers::hug1:
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prodromos
Guest
That sentiment isn’t necessarily shared by the site administrators. Quite a number have had their posting privileges revoked for no apparent reason.PS…We LOVE having you here!
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Peter_J
Guest
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Convertin99, great question, and I hope your health is improving.
I’ve lurked off and on for about 10 years. At first I wanted to just have some questions answered that mystified me about the Catholic faith, such as what exactly the reasoning behind annulments, opposition to ABC, etc., was, as I was working in a Catholic hospital at the time and met a lot of Catholics, some who agreed with traditional Catholic mores, some who didn’t.
There were many posters at the time that I enjoyed conversing with and therefore I stayed. However recently there is a lot going on in Real Life that has me not posting much.
At one point I was very interested in pursuing Catholicism further, but unfortunately, I have to say that the papacy of Pope Francis has made me much less likely to do so. Not because of anything Pope Francis himself has done, but how his papacy seems to have made public many deep divisions even among the Church hierarchy – though I suppose they were there all along.
I’ve also listened to the CA Live radio show, and listened to EWTN radio and watched EWTN on TV as well. If anything, this has made me more confused. Apologists who claim to defend the faith disagree on issues such as, is it OK to take someone off a ventilator (YES per all Catholic medical personnel I’ve ever known but NO per one CA apologist), or OK to get a vaccine derived from fetal cells (YES per everyone, but Colin Donovan stated that people were obligated to try to get the vaccines that are NOT derived from that to be used in the US, or at to at least tell the doctor that they were opposed to how the vaccine was made. No other apologist has stated that Catholics have such an obligation).
Then there’s the debate over “licit use of hormonal therapy”. Most seem to at least begrudgingly admit there is such a thing, but many seem to think Catholics are obligated to try every other possible treatment first, and only use “birth control pills” as a last resort.
Or is it OK to donate organs after death - most say YES but some state it’s ONLY ok if it’s after the heart has stopped beating. Or is it OK to curse and swear - some say yes, others say no.
Even Father Mitch Pacwa, who I find very erudite and learned, confused me when a caller asked him if it was OK to get a tattoo and he said NO. Even though the CAF apologists here have never stated that.
But I realize lay and even ordained apologists are not the Magisterium. But then, what is the Magisterium? Now even Cardinals are publicly questioning the Pope and being threatened with demotion.
So I really haven’t been convinced that the Catholic Church actually can be trusted as a Teaching Authority. Yes, I know the Church is full of sinners and all, but this isn’t about clerics merely failing to live up to what they preach. It’s about clerics not even preaching the same thing.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone with this post, I am trying to be charitable while also being honest.
I’ve lurked off and on for about 10 years. At first I wanted to just have some questions answered that mystified me about the Catholic faith, such as what exactly the reasoning behind annulments, opposition to ABC, etc., was, as I was working in a Catholic hospital at the time and met a lot of Catholics, some who agreed with traditional Catholic mores, some who didn’t.
There were many posters at the time that I enjoyed conversing with and therefore I stayed. However recently there is a lot going on in Real Life that has me not posting much.
At one point I was very interested in pursuing Catholicism further, but unfortunately, I have to say that the papacy of Pope Francis has made me much less likely to do so. Not because of anything Pope Francis himself has done, but how his papacy seems to have made public many deep divisions even among the Church hierarchy – though I suppose they were there all along.
I’ve also listened to the CA Live radio show, and listened to EWTN radio and watched EWTN on TV as well. If anything, this has made me more confused. Apologists who claim to defend the faith disagree on issues such as, is it OK to take someone off a ventilator (YES per all Catholic medical personnel I’ve ever known but NO per one CA apologist), or OK to get a vaccine derived from fetal cells (YES per everyone, but Colin Donovan stated that people were obligated to try to get the vaccines that are NOT derived from that to be used in the US, or at to at least tell the doctor that they were opposed to how the vaccine was made. No other apologist has stated that Catholics have such an obligation).
Then there’s the debate over “licit use of hormonal therapy”. Most seem to at least begrudgingly admit there is such a thing, but many seem to think Catholics are obligated to try every other possible treatment first, and only use “birth control pills” as a last resort.
Or is it OK to donate organs after death - most say YES but some state it’s ONLY ok if it’s after the heart has stopped beating. Or is it OK to curse and swear - some say yes, others say no.
Even Father Mitch Pacwa, who I find very erudite and learned, confused me when a caller asked him if it was OK to get a tattoo and he said NO. Even though the CAF apologists here have never stated that.
But I realize lay and even ordained apologists are not the Magisterium. But then, what is the Magisterium? Now even Cardinals are publicly questioning the Pope and being threatened with demotion.
So I really haven’t been convinced that the Catholic Church actually can be trusted as a Teaching Authority. Yes, I know the Church is full of sinners and all, but this isn’t about clerics merely failing to live up to what they preach. It’s about clerics not even preaching the same thing.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone with this post, I am trying to be charitable while also being honest.
M
MaryT777
Guest
I appreciate your answer. I do believe if you look close enough you’ll find the same problem in non Catholic religions. The difference is a disagreeing group with form a new Church or synod. Many Churches are divided into synods within their denominations, “high” or “low” church while under the same denominational umbrellas.
I wish you the best on your faith journey and God Bless.
Mary.
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Spritus1
Guest
Dear Toeinthewater
Do not let anything deter you from becoming catholic. The Catholic Church has both a human and Divine element. The human element is imperfect, made up as it is of fallen humanity. The leadership or hierarchy of the Catholic Church, even a pope, are not exempt from sharing this fallen nature.
Why you should become catholic is for one reason: the Mass/ Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Jesus truly and really present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity just as He promised us - “This is My Body”. The God Man who could multiply loaves and turn water into wine surely has not trouble in altering the substance of the bread and wine at Mass.
In fact these miracles precede the Eucharistic discourse to make it possible for His hearers to accept that yes Jesus could transform bread and wine into His Body and Blood as they had witnessed the miracles he had performed using bread and wine.
Just as God gave the Israelites manna to sustain them on their long and weary journey, so too does Jesus give us His very Body and Blood to sustain us on our journeys. He truly has not left us orphans.
God bless you.
Do not let anything deter you from becoming catholic. The Catholic Church has both a human and Divine element. The human element is imperfect, made up as it is of fallen humanity. The leadership or hierarchy of the Catholic Church, even a pope, are not exempt from sharing this fallen nature.
Why you should become catholic is for one reason: the Mass/ Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Jesus truly and really present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity just as He promised us - “This is My Body”. The God Man who could multiply loaves and turn water into wine surely has not trouble in altering the substance of the bread and wine at Mass.
In fact these miracles precede the Eucharistic discourse to make it possible for His hearers to accept that yes Jesus could transform bread and wine into His Body and Blood as they had witnessed the miracles he had performed using bread and wine.
Just as God gave the Israelites manna to sustain them on their long and weary journey, so too does Jesus give us His very Body and Blood to sustain us on our journeys. He truly has not left us orphans.
God bless you.
S
Spritus1
Guest
Also toeinthewater
Try to check out the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano on the internet.
The whole Bible pointed to Jesus as the saviour. Born in Bethlehem- which means House of Bread - He was laid in a manger from the French mange (to eat), whose purpose was to hold food. He described Himself as the Bread of Life.
Lanciano where the Eucharistic miracle occurred is held to have been the birthplace of Longinus, the soldier who pierced Christ’s side with the lance when He was on the Cross. Blood and water poured out from the side of Christ and in all likelihood Longinus was covered in the Most Precious Blood and Water from Our Lord’s side. Longinus was effectively baptised by Christ in Christ’s own Water and probably consumed some of the Precious Blood thus making his first Holy Communion also in that instant.
We know that immediately after plunging his spear into Our Lord’s side he declared emphatically “truly this Man was the Son of God”. No equivocation or hesitancy or doubt.
It surely would have been a foolish and doubtless very dangerous thing for him to say in the circumstances given his position and the fact that his superior had just had Jesus killed yet there he was publicly proclaiming Jesus the Son of God. What happened to effect such a startling change?
It is surely no accident that the Eucharistic miracle took place in Lanciano as it is a clear and solid link with Our Lord’s sacrifice on Calvary.
St Longinus Pray for Us.
Try to check out the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano on the internet.
The whole Bible pointed to Jesus as the saviour. Born in Bethlehem- which means House of Bread - He was laid in a manger from the French mange (to eat), whose purpose was to hold food. He described Himself as the Bread of Life.
Lanciano where the Eucharistic miracle occurred is held to have been the birthplace of Longinus, the soldier who pierced Christ’s side with the lance when He was on the Cross. Blood and water poured out from the side of Christ and in all likelihood Longinus was covered in the Most Precious Blood and Water from Our Lord’s side. Longinus was effectively baptised by Christ in Christ’s own Water and probably consumed some of the Precious Blood thus making his first Holy Communion also in that instant.
We know that immediately after plunging his spear into Our Lord’s side he declared emphatically “truly this Man was the Son of God”. No equivocation or hesitancy or doubt.
It surely would have been a foolish and doubtless very dangerous thing for him to say in the circumstances given his position and the fact that his superior had just had Jesus killed yet there he was publicly proclaiming Jesus the Son of God. What happened to effect such a startling change?
It is surely no accident that the Eucharistic miracle took place in Lanciano as it is a clear and solid link with Our Lord’s sacrifice on Calvary.
St Longinus Pray for Us.
S
Spritus1
Guest
Let no one and nothing deprive you of partaking of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Our Lord at Mass. I cannot imagine living life without It. It, the Eucharist is our most precious treasure and for all its imperfections and defects it is only the Catholic Church that has the Mass and the Blessed Sacrament. If for nothing else, it is that fact alone that keeps me in the Catholic Church.
But of course the treasury of the Church is immense; sacraments such as Confession are priceless, the patrimony, the writings of the Church Fathers, the Saints etc.
But all these, great though they are, pale into insignificance when compared to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. To commune with Jesus at Mass, to sit with Jesus, to kneel before Him in Adoration is the closest to heaven we will ever get in this world until finally we see Him face to face, please God.
But of course the treasury of the Church is immense; sacraments such as Confession are priceless, the patrimony, the writings of the Church Fathers, the Saints etc.
But all these, great though they are, pale into insignificance when compared to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. To commune with Jesus at Mass, to sit with Jesus, to kneel before Him in Adoration is the closest to heaven we will ever get in this world until finally we see Him face to face, please God.
S
Spritus1
Guest
Toeinthewater
One final point and I don’t want to alarm you. But expect the powers of hell to not take kindly to you if you decide to continue on a journey to becoming Catholic. They will not like it, not one bit. You will experience annoying obstacles, nagging doubts, setbacks, troubles of different sorts, distractions or suchlike and possibly if these fail, some more overt manifestations. All quite normal.
Do Not Be Afraid. Invoke Holy Michael Archangel, St Benedict and St Pio and Our Lady.
You walk under the shield of Christ Himself. You need fear nothing. Nothing.
Walk in Christ’s truth, on His path and bless God for calling you.
May God bless you.
One final point and I don’t want to alarm you. But expect the powers of hell to not take kindly to you if you decide to continue on a journey to becoming Catholic. They will not like it, not one bit. You will experience annoying obstacles, nagging doubts, setbacks, troubles of different sorts, distractions or suchlike and possibly if these fail, some more overt manifestations. All quite normal.
Do Not Be Afraid. Invoke Holy Michael Archangel, St Benedict and St Pio and Our Lady.
You walk under the shield of Christ Himself. You need fear nothing. Nothing.
Walk in Christ’s truth, on His path and bless God for calling you.
May God bless you.
P
PJM
Guest
MY dear friend in Christ,
GREAT post and questions. THANKS
Are you aware that the CAF Forum limits space?
Each of your points deserves an in-depth reply, which is not possible given the space limitations here.[PLEASE look for a private message from me]
It needs to be pointed out that the CAF is a Public Form, so not everyone who identifies themselves as “Catholics”, are equally qualified to ALL of your legitimate concerns
Nor is it likely that anyone one of us [other than perhaps a Priest], is qualified to respond to all of your issues.
One should be aware that while everyone is free to express their opinion; that one’s opinion is often that; nothing more than a personal opinion. And YES, when seeking answers as you are that can be a serious problem. A good rule to follow is that if said opinions are not supported by evidence to remain wary of that advice.
Much of what you address deals with Moral Theology to a more or lesser degree. That’s a broad field, and often requires an experts opinion, not always available here
Allow me to agree with Father Mitch Pacwa on the tattoo.
**From our Catholic Catechism
364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.**
The answer is NO because our bodies are in a real sense on-loan to us from God. And as our Souls are integral to each body; further our bodies hold the possibility of being “home” to God the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, and even more so for Catholics who have the conditional opportunity to ALSO receive Jesus Himself [the Real Presence] of the GOD who created us, into our bodies in Catholic Holy Communion. Any act that in a manner defaces one’s body is sinful because it opposes God’s Will for each of us. Tattoo’s being an ego driven choice certainly falls into that category. The seriousness of that sin is conditional on the personal intent, the type of tattoo, and it’s location.
God Bless you!
And please look for my private message
Patrick
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
To those trying to evangelize me; I am sure you have good intentions, but I don’t think this is the appropriate topic for that. I merely wanted to answer the OP question. I really do not have time myself right now, due to various RL issues, for in-depth discussion of all the topics I mentioned. If I do ever get the time, I will post the appropriate topics in the appropriate forum.
P
PJM
Guest
quote
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Hi Tommy,
We’re delighted your with CAF!
A question for you to ponder:
Is it POSSIBLE that God can hold contrary Faith beliefs on the same defined issues?
God Bless you
Patrick end quote
I remain on CAF because it affords me an opportunity to share my Catholic Faith.
I posed the question to hopefully get you to think “out of the box.”
God willing we should be seeking understanding and truth and not simply dialoging for the sake of conversation.
God Bless you my friend
Patrick
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Hi Tommy,
We’re delighted your with CAF!
A question for you to ponder:
Is it POSSIBLE that God can hold contrary Faith beliefs on the same defined issues?
God Bless you
Patrick end quote
Thanks for asking
I remain on CAF because it affords me an opportunity to share my Catholic Faith.
I posed the question to hopefully get you to think “out of the box.”
God willing we should be seeking understanding and truth and not simply dialoging for the sake of conversation.
God Bless you my friend
Patrick
P
Peter_J
Guest
Well yes, there are also people who exaggerate how widespread such abuses are. But I was referring to people who just say e.g. “Here’s a picture of an RC ‘clown mass’, so there.” (without even making any claim about how widespread such abuses are) as if that alone makes an argument for them.
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Peter_J
Guest
Although I won’t proffer an answer to the question (because I’m Catholic), I would like to comment that it’s a question of great importance to me.For my non-Catholic brothers and sisters of all faiths:
I’ve noticed many of you have been at Catholic Answers Forums for many months (or years
PS…We LOVE having you here!
As a (hypothetical) example, if a given Protestant poster’s participation here is all about collaboration with, let’s say, “traditionalist” RCs, then his/her posts aren’t of much interest to me regardless of whether he/she is Lutheran or Baptist, Orthodox or Pentecostal, etc.
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