CopticChristian
** I follow events rather closely in Egypt **and have noted with sadness and concern the discrimination against and fears among Coptic Christians there, I
** Anyway, back to your question. To me the parable of the Good Samaritan** shows that Christ put Christian behavior
** My basic point is that doctrine and liturgy are not where the emphasis of Jesus was
** This reminds me of a story****. A man was lauding his Presbyterian faith. Someone asked him what he believed. His response: “I believe what the Presbyterians believe.” What do they believe? was the next question. Well, I don’t know all that much about that, but I believe what they believe.
** I have observed over the years that religion for most people is a form of tribalism** based on the instinct of humankind to divide into competing groups, nations, whatever.
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**Take the Catholic/Methodist dialogue to which you make reference.** Fine. I strongly support such dialogue. What troubles me is that the Catholic approach to dialogue seems motivated by the intent to convert the other party, because the Methodists (in this case) are wrong. The Methodists I know are usually very respectful of other religions, whether Catholic or whatever. By the way, changing Methodists into Catholics is an enormous challenge. The United Methodists are one of the most ecumenical mainline denominations there is. And they are not all that tribalistic. If Methodists move from one community to another they may attend a Presbyterian or UCC Church, etc. Vice versa, too. In Canada, for example, there are no Methodists, because in Canada - way back in 1925 - the Methodists, Congregationalists, and most Presbyterians merged to create the United Church of Canada.
**Methodists I know tend to de-emphasize doctrine** and also permit wide variation when it comes to liturgy. When an effort was made to involve John Wesley in sectarian debate, he replied "think and let think" and (paraphrasing) "if your heart is right, if you love God as I love God, let us join hands and walk together." Now, that is Christianity. So much of Catholicism seems intent on proselytizing as on "Journey Home". Evangelical Protestants are big on 'being saved' but are not all that denominational. Mainline Protestants focus more attention upon following Jesus (Matt. 25) rather than concern for 'correct' doctrines concerning him.
**God bless 'em all.** My personal faith is in God and I try to be a faithful disciple of Christ. As for those doctrinal and litugical differences, they are secondary to me. To begin with, this universe or so huge and mysterious that I doubt if our finite minds know all that much. I am ready to wait until the world-to-come to get a valid view of it all. 'Now we see through a glass darkly....'
This is strictly my opinion based on observation. The dialogues laud what we see in the other groups. Methodists as you know are spiritually minded. In the OHCAC there are those that are unworldly…Nuns, Priests, Monks, Ascetics…there is no such thing as a Protestant Monastery…In all the dialogues the focus is on things like honoring what each Particular group brings to the table…Reformed/Bible Study…we agree…Methodist/Spirituality…we agree…you will see that the dialogues focus on a refocus on Eucharist, Baptism, and other doctrines. The first is the Eucharist and you will see that many of the dialogues include an agreement in understanding of the importance of the Supper…no one denigrates this.
While I appreciate your concern for the Coptics, I get a lump in my throat and have to swallow hard with the notion of Coptic Protestants…Western thought going East?
The samaritan is parallel to Pauls telling the Jews that there are those in the covenant that are not of the covenant and those outside the covenant that are in the covenant for circumcision is a matter of the heart…the Gentile does what the law requires even though they have not the law…Then the question is what is the Covenant and I disagree…the example is more than just this behavior.
Concerning Liturgy I disagree…The Last Supper is the culmination of the ministry up until the Crucifixion and resurrection and when seen as a continuum as Catholics do you are not understanding by focusing on what you understand as liturgy.
If you would like, why not read the Catholic Postings and see if you can find one Catholic that does not know what they believe and would say they believe what other’s believe. Ask any Catholic if the Eucharistic Worship is the center of our Faith upon which all other beliefs flow? You may find that interesting.
Imagine that you see One Church that has all truths and all methods of experience and all truths…, like an egg, whole, intact…imagine that in your mind as you close your eyes just off to the left of your vision…then imagine that you see splinter groups going off on their own emphasizing
Bible Study
Evangelizatioin
Conversion
Spirituality
Doctrine
Then as you imagine all the varied and sundried Protestant splinter groups, imagine them like stars…imagine for a moment these groups to the right of your vision…
Now you have on the left, an egg, what we call the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church…on the right you have all the Protestant splinter tribes as you say…like stars
Now as you hold both of those images in your mind…imagine that the vision on your left the OHCAC, you see in the egg the stars you see on the right and in an instant you now understand that what you see on the right exists on the left…perhaps that might help you understand how I see it.
The next step is for the stars on the right and the egg with stars on the left to come together with an egg filled with stars…
What to do?
I don’t know for certain, Rinnie. But I hope we both find out when we see who we meet in heaven.