I've had enough of scrupulosity

[justcatholic997]

sigh

Ever since I’ve started living out my faith, I’ve been struggling with what is/isn’t sin(I understand that a spiritual director would help, but I can’t get one at the moment for personal reasons). I actually have a scrupulous question now, but that’s not the purpose of this. If you want to know/help, please PM me.

My internal debates aren’t even over mortal sin(scruples vs. venial sin), but I feel like if I personally decide that something is alright, I’m saying that I don’t care about sinning. I don’t have the ability to really get help from a priest(other than Confession), which is why I’ve vented a lot of it here. I almost always end up obeying scruples, as I should give up things I enjoy for the good of my soul, right?

This wears me out mentally, and prevents me from finding joy in the faith because of it. I understand that the best advice in this situation is to talk to a priest/S.A, and I will do what I can. If you have any advice that doesn’t center around the above, feel free to share.

Please pray as well. I’m sure this is just a phase, and prayers will help me through.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinner now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[dmftx]

Praying for you. I went to a retreat a few months ago that radically changed me and my scrupulosity has withered to almost nothing. If you ponder on the life and death of Christ, and believe that He is all loving and all forgiving, then you never need to worry about whether or not you remembered to confess every sin you committed, if something that you thought, said, or did was a sin, if you were living a life honoring God, etc. Why? Do you believe our God is merciful, loving, forgiving, and all knowing? Would you say that to someone suffering and in anguish? Then say it to yourself and believe it.

God knows our inadequacies but he also knows our hearts and true desires to please Him. He forgives us long before we ask for forgiveness because He loves us. Even if we don’t think that we’ve met His expectations, He knows our fervent desire to do so and our continued strife to grow closer to Him.

Overall, I was short-changing God which was the furthest thing from what I wanted to do. I still have my moments but I remember that He knows who I am - He created me, He loves me, and He forgives me. It gives me strength.

I hope you can embrace this relationship with our God and that this has helped in sone small way. Also, if you can attend Euchariatic Adoration - give it a few tries. It is a beautiful opportunity to spend time with Him.

 

[roseofshannon]

I think scrupulosity is a phase most who are returning to their faith and really taking it seriously go through before reaching a better balance. I know I did and I see it in the lives of many saints.

I really like the analogy of St. Therese. She saw herself as a little toddler learning how to walk who would take steps and inevitably fall down.

Toddlers don’t get mad at themself and give up, but get right back up with a smile and try again. And what parent would get mad at them when they keep trying like that? Nooo–they smile with pleasure at the great effort their little one is making regardless of the amount of steps they accomplish!

So it’s obvious that you have a great desire to please Our Lord and He knows your heart well. Keep turning yourself over to Him to be your spiritual director and he will help you overcome your sins step by step, but not all at once.

I know what you mean by fearing saying to yourself that something is all right because you want to get it right so badly and fear going back to complacency. I experience the same thing and the anxiety it produces. (Anxiety is not from God.)

When a soul has made a firm amendment to stay on the path to holiness the evil one wants to stop us any way he can. He will make us try to become holy overnight and wear ourselves out and become discouraged. (Discouragement is never from God.)

So I have learned to try and stay humble and take things one step at a time. Focus on overcoming one sin at a time. If I was unsure something was a sin I learned to tell Jesus, “I’m not sure if that was right or wrong. Please show me the way and please forgive me if it is. Help me to do the right thing and I will rest in your loving arms. Jesus I trust in you.”

Balance is important. All virtue is a means between two extremes.

I had to realize that I can offer up my licit pleasures just as much as I can offer up my sacrifices and sufferings. Licit pleasures are gifts from God that He wants us to enjoy just as a lover wants their beloved to really enjoy the gifts bestowed on them.

I finally had to tell Jesus that I place my salvation completely in His hands; that I will keep trying but I know that like a loving parent He will keep guiding me, never let me stray too far and always bring me back if I do. I continue to ask Him to do this for me and I believe it’s a prayer He simply cannot and will not refuse!

Trust that He will not abandon you on your path to holiness and just promise Him you will keep getting back up and trying like the little toddler.

St. Therese, pray for us that we may become Holy like you!
Jesus we trust in your love and mercy!

 

[TruthSeeker92]

Hi,

I hope that I’m not overstepping my bounds, but scrupulosity is not a spiritual issue but a biochemical one which is usually linked to OCD. I recommend reading books about it and familiarizing yourself with it, and if you are able to/comfortable speak to a counselor who is an OCD expert. If you visit the International OCD Foundation website (Google that) you will find resources.

 

[roseofshannon]

Hi,

I hope that I’m not overstepping my bounds, but scrupulosity is not a spiritual issue but a biochemical one which is usually linked to OCD. I recommend reading books about it and familiarizing yourself with it, and if you are able to/comfortable speak to a counselor who is an OCD expert. If you visit the International OCD Foundation website (Google that) you will find resources.

Hi TruthSeeker,

Huh, I didn’t know that scrupulosity is always a case of OCD. I thought that was only in certain cases. Is it always considered OCD now?

I know I went through a phase as did friends of mine and saints I have read about but have come out of it. In my case it seemed that learning more about the balance between God’s mercy and justice and His unfathomable love cleared it up over time.

But I’m totally open to learning more about it!

 

[StBenedictLabre]

Praying…

 

[anon98328916]

sigh

Ever since I’ve started living out my faith, I’ve been struggling with what is/isn’t sin(I understand that a spiritual director would help, but I can’t get one at the moment for personal reasons). I actually have a scrupulous question now, but that’s not the purpose of this. If you want to know/help, please PM me.

My internal debates aren’t even over mortal sin(scruples vs. venial sin), but I feel like if I personally decide that something is alright, I’m saying that I don’t care about sinning. I don’t have the ability to really get help from a priest(other than Confession), which is why I’ve vented a lot of it here. I almost always end up obeying scruples, as I should give up things I enjoy for the good of my soul, right?

This wears me out mentally, and prevents me from finding joy in the faith because of it. I understand that the best advice in this situation is to talk to a priest/S.A, and I will do what I can. If you have any advice that doesn’t center around the above, feel free to share.

Please pray as well. I’m sure this is just a phase, and prayers will help me through.

I suffer with OCD and scrupulous thoughts. I find while praying if I ignore the thoughts no matter how bad and how upsetting they are it really helps…continue praying and the thoughts will become less less frequent. I keep reminding myself that God knows I am not thinking those things and he loves me. Keep praying no matter what and patience is the key.

 

[LethalMouse]

sigh

Ever since I’ve started living out my faith, I’ve been struggling with what is/isn’t sin(I understand that a spiritual director would help, but I can’t get one at the moment for personal reasons). I actually have a scrupulous question now, but that’s not the purpose of this. If you want to know/help, please PM me.

My internal debates aren’t even over mortal sin(scruples vs. venial sin), but I feel like if I personally decide that something is alright, I’m saying that I don’t care about sinning. I don’t have the ability to really get help from a priest(other than Confession), which is why I’ve vented a lot of it here. I almost always end up obeying scruples, as I should give up things I enjoy for the good of my soul, right?

This wears me out mentally, and prevents me from finding joy in the faith because of it. I understand that the best advice in this situation is to talk to a priest/S.A, and I will do what I can. If you have any advice that doesn’t center around the above, feel free to share.

Please pray as well. I’m sure this is just a phase, and prayers will help me through.

First bold: See CCC:

"For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent”

Near impossible for you in your mindset to be mortal sinning in the sense you are describing

Second bold:

To find the joy of love that is God vs near resenting God because you are dotting i’s and crossing t’s… Love God first, worry about the rule book as you go and let the love guide your heart rather than fear and resentment.

---

Does anyone here know about Green Lantern??? Does no one recall what happens to the yellow lanterns and their fear powered rings??? People need to lay off the fear!

 

[tawny]

Praying for your intentions.

 

[Eichelbaum]

I hope that I’m not overstepping my bounds, but scrupulosity is not a spiritual issue but a biochemical one which is usually linked to OCD.

Forgive me, but I disagree.

Scrupulosity is often tied to things like OCD, but it should be kept in mind that there is, IMHO, a spectrum of scrupulosity.

Some cases are clearly psychological — for example, driving over a pot hole in the dark, but convincing oneself that the “pot hole” was actually a person who was struck dead. Unfortunate folks like this might absolutely drive themselves to despair worrying about this, despite all advice and reassurance, despite whatever their priest might tell them, despite all evidence to the contrary of their fears.

But other cases are just an inability to distinguish mortal from venial sin, coupled with a fear and anxiety and a pattern of interpreting one’s behavior as negatively and harshly as possible.

Obviously, there’s a psychological component here, but it’s also very, very spiritual, because one of its root causes is just a simple lack of trust in Jesus. It’s also a matter of ignorance: I think a lot of scruples are just a poorly formed conscience that doesn’t know how to look at behavior with the mind of the Church. For example, I take people who ask is this a sin? quite at their word — they don’t know if the act is sinful or not, while many people simply call them scrupulous. I think that’s an abuse of the term.

Anyway, my long-winded point is just that instantly invoking things like OCD can be a bit limiting, especially if a person exhibits no other traits of OCD in other aspects of their life.

 

[roseofshannon]

Forgive me, but I disagree.

Scrupulosity is often tied to things like OCD, but it should be kept in mind that there is, IMHO, a spectrum of scrupulosity.

Some cases are clearly psychological — for example, driving over a pot hole in the dark, but convincing oneself that the “pot hole” was actually a person who was struck dead. Unfortunate folks like this might absolutely drive themselves to despair worrying about this, despite all advice and reassurance, despite whatever their priest might tell them, despite all evidence to the contrary of their fears.

But other cases are just an inability to distinguish mortal from venial sin, coupled with a fear and anxiety and a pattern of interpreting one’s behavior as negatively and harshly as possible.

Obviously, there’s a psychological component here, but it’s also very, very spiritual, because one of its root causes is just a simple lack of trust in Jesus. It’s also a matter of ignorance: I think a lot of scruples are just a poorly formed conscience that doesn’t know how to look at behavior with the mind of the Church. For example, I take people who ask is this a sin? quite at their word — they don’t know if the act is sinful or not, while many people simply call them scrupulous. I think that’s an abuse of the term.

Anyway, my long-winded point is just that instantly invoking things like OCD can be a bit limiting, especially if a person exhibits no other traits of OCD in other aspects of their life.

Not to mention that it would be rare to find a psychologist who can actually help you determine what is and what isn’t a sin.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t have the ability to really get help from a priest(other than Confession)

And that is what you need…a* regular confessor. * That is where to start and that is what is the age old practice.

---

I will re-post an older post of mine

A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” *who can direct them --and even give them some general principles to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience). Thus with their direction they can dismiss scruples. Scruples are to be dismissed not argued with.

Scruples are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one?

Such ‘obedience’ (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.

As to counseling - that could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)

Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous

 

[Bookcat]

My internal debates aren’t even over mortal sin(scruples vs. venial sin), but I feel like if I personally decide that something is alright, I’m saying that I don’t care about sinning.

Note the word “feel” there. I imagine your reason tells you otherwise.

Go with* reason*.

If your judging that something is not a venial sin - but good and right - does that mean you “do not care about sinning?”

No.

Your reason can help you see that such does not follow.

Feelings are not necessarily correct “measures”. Especially for someone struggling with scruples.

 

[sudy]

Perhaps try focusing on love instead of sin, as love is in direct conflict with sin. Jesus taught us to love God, and to love our neighbours as ourselves.

1 Corinthians 13 says that love is always patient and kind; love is never jealous; love is not boastful or conceited, it is never rude and never seeks its own advantage, it does not take offence or store up grievances. Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but finds its joy in the truth. It is always ready to make allowances, to trust, to hope and to endure whatever comes. Love never comes to an end.

Remember that love covers a multitude of sins.

I recommend speaking with your priest about this - even during confession - as he will be able to give you the guidance you need and will be a great source of comfort for you.

 

[porthos11]

sigh

Ever since I’ve started living out my faith, I’ve been struggling with what is/isn’t sin(I understand that a spiritual director would help, but I can’t get one at the moment for personal reasons). I actually have a scrupulous question now, but that’s not the purpose of this. If you want to know/help, please PM me.

My internal debates aren’t even over mortal sin(scruples vs. venial sin), but I feel like if I personally decide that something is alright, I’m saying that I don’t care about sinning. I don’t have the ability to really get help from a priest(other than Confession), which is why I’ve vented a lot of it here. I almost always end up obeying scruples, as I should give up things I enjoy for the good of my soul, right?

This wears me out mentally, and prevents me from finding joy in the faith because of it. I understand that the best advice in this situation is to talk to a priest/S.A, and I will do what I can. If you have any advice that doesn’t center around the above, feel free to share.

Please pray as well. I’m sure this is just a phase, and prayers will help me through.

Of course you care. I’ll bet that when you’re confronted with a manifest sin, you know not commit it, and if you do fall into it, you know with full clarity that you did; i.e. you get no “did I sin?” type questions.

Acting on an unknown with the best information you have at hand and proceeding as if it were not sinful is not that you don’t care about sin. You do care, otherwise, why would you even deliberate it? You have to proceed, if you have no other information but are still uncertain, as if it were not a sin, and do it with a clear conscience. This is one way to overcome scrupulosity. And further, do not confess it, even as uncertain.

This kind of stuff is best done with a good confessor or spiritual director, but since things are what you say, you work with the best of your resources.

Giving up good things for the good of the soul is meritorious, but one gives up good things willingly. Giving up good things to calm a scrupulous conscience is not a good spiritual exercise. I would daresay, embrace the good things out of spite for the scrupulosity.

Scrupulosity is a scourge, an unholy thorn. It’s not even a “cross to bear”. It’s something to be absolutely despised and thrown off with no respect whatsoever.

 

[Bookcat]

Scrupulosity is a scourge, an unholy thorn. It’s not even a “cross to bear”. It’s something to be absolutely despised and thrown off with no respect whatsoever.

Well yes to the despising of scruples (to use the older language on the subject) - but while doing so - it can still though be “a cross to bear”. Not one to keep willingly but one to “bear” while it lasts. While one is seeking actively to throw such off with the help of a regular confessor.

 

[justcatholic997]

I see the responses about Confession/confessor, even though I wasn’t looking for that. I understand that it’s the best thing for it, so I emailed my priest, as I only see him once per week(can’t go to weekday services).

How can I determine sin vs. scruple? I can’t exactly go to my priest for every little thing, so I should have guidelines on that.

Last question is on listening to confessor advice. I asked him about AMV’s online(worried about breaking copyright/stealing money from companies) and he said they were fine to watch, as long as I didn’t download them. However, I still can’t bring myself to watch on without ads, as I think it would be stealing money(it’d only be a small amount, but that still matters) from the artists of the animation/music. What would be the correct way to obey here?

 

[porthos11]

I see the responses about Confession/confessor, even though I wasn’t looking for that. I understand that it’s the best thing for it, so I emailed my priest, as I only see him once per week(can’t go to weekday services).

How can I determine sin vs. scruple? I can’t exactly go to my priest for every little thing, so I should have guidelines on that.

Last question is on listening to confessor advice. I asked him about AMV’s online(worried about breaking copyright/stealing money from companies) and he said they were fine to watch, as long as I didn’t download them. However, I still can’t bring myself to watch on without ads, as I think it would be stealing money(it’d only be a small amount, but that still matters) from the artists of the animation/music. What would be the correct way to obey here?

You may not have asked the confessor question, but it’s one you need to hear anyway.

You know what is sin. Even for the scrupulous, the sin is clear and there is no question. Scruple is merely an annoyance, a constant “did I sin or not?” If you have that feeling, it’s a scruple, and you are to proceed as if it is not a sin.

As for obeying your confessor, it must be absolute, unquestioning, and unconditional. In fact, your asking here about his advice here is a violation of that principle, as you should not be second-guessing him. There is only one answer: do as he says. In other words, if you want to watch the videos and Father says it’s fine to watch the videos, then for cryin’ out loud, watch the videos.

And how you can even think that skipping ads somehow constitutes “stealing” money baffles me. Unless somehow it increases the balance of your bank account. From an advertising perspective, you are the customer/market, and you can’t be forced to ensure any particular company earns a cent. Especially since you’re not even the one paying, but rather, the hosting site.

If you really can’t get to a trusted confessor for whatever reason, that’s fine (well, not really, but it is what it is). But you have to adhere to certain principles, and one of those is that if you are not sure, and you’ve done all you can, you are to proceed with the presumption that it is not a sin and you are not to confess it even as “uncertain.”

 

[Bookcat]

How can I determine sin vs. scruple? I can’t exactly go to my priest for every little thing, so I should have guidelines on that.

Your confessor can give you (or confirm for you) certain “general rules” to follow and apply due to your scruples (for example he might direct regarding your concern about venial sin “unless your certain it is a sin - it is not for you a sin”)

The general key regarding scruples is obedience to a regular confessor. The general principles he gives too fall under that.