I've lost concept of the Trinity

[scapularkid8]

I’m stuck. I wish I could go back to my young ignorance of understanding the Trinity so it would be easier! I’m lost and can’t comprehend it. I know it’s a mystery, but there has to be some explination that satisfies human logic! After being exposed to the incorrect Mormon and Muslim view of God, I am especially lost and doubting. This problem is really ruining my prayer life and Mass experience. We’ll pray something at Mass and then I’ll just start wondering “Hmm, how am I supposed to reach out to God the Father, and why do I need to do that when Jesus is right there in the Tabernacle?” Help!!!

 

[Image_of_God]

Have you ever read St. Thomas Aquinas? He was the best philospher ever and even he admitted that the Trinity can not be understood by human reason alone. You must have the grace. Without grace you could never believe in the Trinity, it cannot be comprehended.

So pray for the grace.

 

[scapularkid8]

I just finished praying the Rosary and that helped. I figured that in order to understand God, I have to trust Him (like Mary @ the Annunciaiton), to trust I must find how He reveals Himself (the Magnificat in the Visitation), to see how He is revealed, I must look at His Son and be humble like Him(the Nativity), to follow His Son will cause me anxiety (the Presentation: “Your soul too a sword shall pierce”), and finally to get past that anxiety I must be obidient and know that He will care for everything (the Finding in the temple). Whew!! That’ll take some work, but I’ll be happy to do it. I need to pray for humility, trust, and obedience daily.

I think your signature also helps to answer my question Image!!

 

[rr1213]

We “understand” the Trinity through what we read in the Scriptures and profess in the Creeds but, in reality, the concept is beyond our ability to truly grasp. The same with the concept of eternity. Our minds as human beings simply cannot fathom three persons in one or a time when time does not exist nor end. The best we can do, in my opinion, is ask for the grace to understand according to our mean capabilities and the grace to accept what we cannot understand.

 

[Della]

scapularkid8:

We’ll pray something at Mass and then I’ll just start wondering “Hmm, how am I supposed to reach out to God the Father, and why do I need to do that when Jesus is right there in the Tabernacle?”

To answer your question, the reason we address the Father through the Son is because of the Incarnation. Since God the Son became a man he represents us before the Father. Jesus was constantly saying that he had come “to do the will of my Father.” He is the 2nd Adam, the new father of humanity, the one who revealed the love of his Father to us by his life, death, and resurrection–all of which we remember and pray in the Rosary.

The Son is the Word God has spoken into the void and the Holy Spirit is the Love the Father and Son have for each other. We share in the divine life of the Trinity when we are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. We receive the Father’s love through the Son and are enabled to act on it through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Image_of_God]

I just finished praying the Rosary and that helped. I figured that in order to understand God, I have to trust Him (like Mary @ the Annunciaiton), to trust I must find how He reveals Himself (the Magnificat in the Visitation), to see how He is revealed, I must look at His Son and be humble like Him(the Nativity), to follow His Son will cause me anxiety (the Presentation: “Your soul too a sword shall pierce”), and finally to get past that anxiety I must be obidient and know that He will care for everything (the Finding in the temple). Whew!! That’ll take some work, but I’ll be happy to do it. I need to pray for humility, trust, and obedience daily.

I think your signature also helps to answer my question Image!!

Well, what a “coincidence.” don’t you think?

 

[thistle]

I’m stuck. I wish I could go back to my young ignorance of understanding the Trinity so it would be easier! I’m lost and can’t comprehend it. I know it’s a mystery, but there has to be some explination that satisfies human logic! After being exposed to the incorrect Mormon and Muslim view of God, I am especially lost and doubting. This problem is really ruining my prayer life and Mass experience. We’ll pray something at Mass and then I’ll just start wondering “Hmm, how am I supposed to reach out to God the Father, and why do I need to do that when Jesus is right there in the Tabernacle?” Help!!!

I recommend the book Theology For Beginners by F.J. Sheed.

 

[Nan_S]

When words are inadequate, do pictures help?

 

[Nan_S]

Or, how about an explanation and an analogy:

The explanation:
A dog is zero persons in one being.
A person is one person in one being.
God is three persons in one being.

The analogy:
One way to try to grasp the concept of the Trinity is to look at an egg. It has three component parts - shell, yolk, and white. In order to be an egg, it must have those three parts. While all 3 parts are “egg”, and can be used separately, they are best and most meaningful when together. (Yes, an egg has other parts, too, but they are all sub-components of shell, yolk, and white.) Eliminate one of the three and it is missing a necessary element. The part we see revealed to the world is the shell, which we can compare to Jesus - God presented to us in a way we can touch. The part hidden from us is the yolk which we can compare to God the Father, the procreative portion and origin of new life, dimly visible through the shell. The part inbetween, nearly invisible in to the eye, is the white, which can be compared to the Holy Spirit - we may not see it right away, but when the egg is opened we can easily feel it and observe its effects.

One of the points of the egg analogy is to illustrate the interdependence of our triune God. Jesus is fully God, but not all by His lonesome. Same with the Father and the Spirit. You can even ignore one or two of the three, just as you can imagine that the eggshell has no contents worth examining, or look only at the yolk and ignore the rest. The Father is still God, even to Jews and Muslims who don’t believe in Jesus, and vice-versa. But you have an incomplete picture unless you acknowledge all three together.

Hope this helps.
Nan

 

[PauloFreire2]

We should not mix with them.

Don’t dwell on it. Go back to the basics. Go back to Christ. Focus on Jesus. Jesus is the bottom line. Do you believe in Jesus? Do you?

 

[kleary]

If you know the Latin words-

Credo in unum Deum Patrem omnipotentem; factorum coeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
Et in unum Dominum Jesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum, non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt; qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de coelis, et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria virgine, et homo factus est; crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est; et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas; et ascendit in coelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris; et iterum venturus est, cum gloria, judicare vivos et mortuos; cujus regni non erit finis. Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit; qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur; qui locutus est per Prophetas. Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam. Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum; et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum, et vitam venturi seculi. Amen.

Ken

 

[exoflare]

Read Frank Sheed’s Theology and Sanity. He has the best explanation of the Trinity that I’ve ever seen, and he doesn’t have to resort to confusing analogies to do it.

Not that there’s anything wrong with analogies, but it’s better to just cut to the chase when you can…

 

[urban-hermit]

I recommend the book Theology For Beginners by F.J. Sheed.

Amen! - Let me add my voice to those who have recommended the classic book
Theology for Beginners. I praise and thank God for having this book published. Also I would recommend another book by Frank Sheed: Theology and Sanity. In this book he delves a little deeper into consideration of the Trinity. From about three-quarters into page 82… through page 111 and on to page 115 Mr. Sheed guides us on an exploration of some of what is known about the Trinity. I have found it very enlightening and I hope you will too and if you read the above excerpt I hope you will be enticed into buying the book which is so great … and which just happens to be available from Catholic Answers.

In case it might be helpful, when I think of the Trinity I think of how St Patrick explained the Trinity to the average folks of his day over a thousand years ago, using the analogy of a shamrock or three-leaved clover… In Frank Sheed’s writing he mentions that God’s nature is infinite, and that as the Holy Trinity the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three persons who wield this infinite nature. So I sometimes think of the Persons of the Trinity as different “Faces” or Personalities of the same God.

Mr Sheed also emphasizes, as it seems you already realize, that we have to keep praying and loving God all the while we are trying to understand Him. We’ll never understand Him completely, but we can still enjoy catching glimpses of parts of His reality… Hope this helps - God bless you!

 

[roblrich]

We should not mix with them.

Don’t dwell on it. Go back to the basics. Go back to Christ. Focus on Jesus. Jesus is the bottom line. Do you believe in Jesus? Do you?

Now you are talking like a Baptist. They can’t answer theology questions, so they simply say, “Just have faith and believe”. Before we will believe, we need concepts we can understand. At least the Mormons can explain their doctrine.

I am converting to Catholicism. but if the church I am joining doesn’t understand what it believes, than maybe I should reconsider.

Now if the diagram that Nan S posted is accurate, that is something I can grasp and deal with.

Growing up Baptist and converting to Mormonism as a young adult, I was always taught that the trinity were 3 different beings. Or at least as a very young Baptist, that is what I understood. But when asking questions as a Baptist, I was often told to not concern myself with doctrine, but just to have faith and grow up and make a good living so I could donate 10% to the Baptist Church.

 

[FCEGM]

Now you are talking like a Baptist. They can’t answer theology questions, so they simply say, “Just have faith and believe”. Before we will believe, we need concepts we can understand. At least the Mormons can explain their doctrine.

I am converting to Catholicism. but if the church I am joining doesn’t understand what it believes, than maybe I should reconsider.

Now if the diagram that Nan S posted is accurate, that is something I can grasp and deal with.

Growing up Baptist and converting to Mormonism as a young adult, I was always taught that the trinity were 3 different beings. Or at least as a very young Baptist, that is what I understood. But when asking questions as a Baptist, I was often told to not concern myself with doctrine, but just to have faith and grow up and make a good living so I could donate 10% to the Baptist Church.

I guess as long as they see Him as their “personal Savior” it doesn’t much matter to them just Who He is as long as they save their skin.

 

[Karin]

I’m stuck. I wish I could go back to my young ignorance of understanding the Trinity so it would be easier! I’m lost and can’t comprehend it. I know it’s a mystery, but there has to be some explination that satisfies human logic! After being exposed to the incorrect Mormon and Muslim view of God, I am especially lost and doubting. This problem is really ruining my prayer life and Mass experience. We’ll pray something at Mass and then I’ll just start wondering “Hmm, how am I supposed to reach out to God the Father, and why do I need to do that when Jesus is right there in the Tabernacle?” Help!!!

May I also suggest that you AVOID the Mormons and Muslims and anybody else with a contradictory view from us of God

 

[jschwehm]

These two podcasts may help:

catholicxjw.blogspot.com/2006/05/jesus-is-god.html

catholicxjw.blogspot.com/2006/08/holy-spirit-is-god.html

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[roblrich]

Thanks Jeff, I am downloading them this very moment.

As I said in an earlier post, I was raised Southern Baptist (my father was a Southern Baptist minister), and I converted while in the army living in Italy in the early 1980’s to Mormonism. I always had great respect for the Mormon church, something I did not have for the Baptist faith. At least the Mormon’s doctrine claimed it to be the restored church, something that was lost during the Reformation.

That was always the sore spot with me in the Southern Baptist faith, as protestants got mad at the church during the Reformation and they took their ball and went home. I eventually converted to Mormonism, and as a member of that Church for years and actually knowing what they teach and just don’t assume it as many outside the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Church does, it was very, very similar to the Baptist faith. LDS claim to be the true church by Joseph’s Smith’s witness and restoration which eventually led Smith to be visited and baptized by John the Baptist’s spirit, and restoring the Church with this act. But I finally grew to be skeptical about these events.

I believe that there is a true Church and the true Church has Christ’s/God’s authority on earth. And I have come to the conclusion that the Roman Catholic Church is the only faith to turn to if I believe this.

Now I found out yesterday from this forum, that the Catholic Church will not recognize my baptism from the Church of LDS, although I was baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

The Catholic Church won’t recognize that baptism, but they may accept the baptism I received in the Southern Baptist Church as a child. That is amazing to me. I have absolutely no problem getting rebaptized if I need to be to convert. I’ll do anything necessary and asked of me. But for the Church to recognize a Southern Baptist baptism over a LDS baptism is beyond me.

But whatever is God’s will…

 

[Karin]

The Catholic Church won’t recognize that baptism, but they may accept the baptism I received in the Southern Baptist Church as a child. That is amazing to me. I have absolutely no problem getting rebaptized if I need to be to convert. I’ll do anything necessary and asked of me. But for the Church to recognize a Southern Baptist baptism over a LDS baptism is beyond me.

But whatever is God’s will…

**July 30, 2018: World Day against Trafficking in Persons - ZENIT - English 27, 2001
**

*Vatican City – The Vatican’s recent clarification that Mormon baptism is not Christian does not imply a judgment on the moral life of members of the Utah-based sect, L’Osservatore Romano reported. *
*An article in the semiofficial Vatican newspaper referred to the recent document, published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which explains that Catholic baptism is essentially different from Mormon baptism. *
*The Mormons believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three gods who form one divinity – not three Persons in one God, as Christians believe. *“The congregation’s decision is an answer to a particular question, which refers to the Mormons’ doctrine of baptism and, obviously, does not mean a judgment on the people who adhere to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” the article clarified.