I've never heard a good answer from non-Catholic Christians re: Matt. 18:15-17

[Lampo]

catholics are more challenging because you have an infallibility issue to protect.

The protection of the charism of infallibility comes from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lampo]

Is the Church spoken of in Matt. 18 a Protestant Church?

 

[Lampo]

How is the situation handled in my second scenario in post #50?

 

[falbodk]

Looks like we have two subjects to answer now? Both seem to be asking the Protestant view on infant baptisim and on the proper way to clear up problems or disputes with a brother or sister in the Lord. By the way, I’m an Evangelical Protestant, former cradle Catholic, and have come to have much respect for the Catholic Church and her history. A dear Catholic friend has been teaching much and clearing up many Protestant misconceptions for me.

Anyway, here’s the best explaination that I can give:

1: Protestants, at least in my conservative circles, believe that you believe first, then be baptized as an act of obedience. A baby can not actively make the decision to be baptized or understand it’s meaning.

2: I could use a little more info about the person teaching your children wrong doctrine, but, I’ll take a shot at this anyway. Assuming you are both of the same faith, then, I think you should be taking this issue to the leadership of your congregation or parish if you can not resolve it one on one or with another brothers assistance. It would not be productive to mix up denominations and doctrinal differences when trying to solve a doctrinal dispute.

I’d also ask why your children are under the teaching of someone that does not share your doctrinal position? Are you members of the same church? Is this person inline with church doctrine?

Disputes with other christians can be very trying, may our Lord lead you and your friend. God bless you in this effort.

dan

 

[Lampo]

Looks like we have two subjects to answer now? Both seem to be asking the Protestant view on infant baptisim and on the proper way to clear up problems or disputes with a brother or sister in the Lord. By the way, I’m an Evangelical Protestant, former cradle Catholic, and have come to have much respect for the Catholic Church and her history. A dear Catholic friend has been teaching much and clearing up many Protestant misconceptions for me.

Anyway, here’s the best explaination that I can give:

1: Protestants, at least in my conservative circles, believe that you believe first, then be baptized as an act of obedience. A baby can not actively make the decision to be baptized or understand it’s meaning.

2: I could use a little more info about the person teaching your children wrong doctrine, but, I’ll take a shot at this anyway. Assuming you are both of the same faith, then, I think you should be taking this issue to the leadership of your congregation or parish if you can not resolve it one on one or with another brothers assistance. It would not be productive to mix up denominations and doctrinal differences when trying to solve a doctrinal dispute.

I’d also ask why your children are under the teaching of someone that does not share your doctrinal position? Are you members of the same church? Is this person inline with church doctrine?

Disputes with other christians can be very trying, may our Lord lead you and your friend. God bless you in this effort.

dan

Thank you for your response. However, this is a hypothetical scenario. I didn’t aim to discuss infant baptism. My main question is what “church” Jesus was referring to in Matt. 18.

Please see post #50.

 

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

This is exactly my point. Not all of these people speak the truth. It is utterly impossible for that to happen considering the variations.

To find the truth seek out the wisdom of the ages.

yeah like the wisdom of the ages which says that the earth is flat.

Have you investigated? What have you found? How has the original teaching varied, or not? How close to the source (Jesus and his apostles)is the teaching?

Have a look at Justin’s first apology, chapter LXI, written ca. 140 ad. ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lxi.html What does he say about baptism?

Have a look at the didache (di-Dah-key) earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html What does it say about baptism in chapter 7?

Has any of these teachings been altered in the Catholic Church at any time? What is the likely source?

Sub

 

[falbodk]

Thank you for your response. However, this is a hypothetical scenario. I didn’t aim to discuss infant baptism. My main question is what “church” Jesus was referring to in Matt. 18.

Please see post #50.

Hi Lampo, Yes, I see that I messed up, I’m new to the forum and thought I was responding to the end, but, was actually on page one. You really started something Good question though, I enjoyed the more thoughtful replies. dan

 

[Lampo]

Hi Lampo, Yes, I see that I messed up, I’m new to the forum and thought I was responding to the end, but, was actually on page one. You really started something Good question though, I enjoyed the more thoughtful replies. dan

Cool. I’m glad you are in these forums!

 

[falbodk]

Cool. I’m glad you are in these forums!

Thanks, I think I’m going to enjoy this. I really enjoy my discussions with my Catholic friend from work. We have lively, but, respectful debates and I’m learning a lot that I never learned as a young Catholic. We’ll this subject is probably for another thread, so, bye for now…

 

[Lampo]

Thanks, I think I’m going to enjoy this. I really enjoy my discussions with my Catholic friend from work. We have lively, but, respectful debates and I’m learning a lot that I never learned as a young Catholic. We’ll this subject is probably for another thread, so, bye for now…

Later…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thanks, I think I’m going to enjoy this. I really enjoy my discussions with my Catholic friend from work. We have lively, but, respectful debates and I’m learning a lot that I never learned as a young Catholic. We’ll this subject is probably for another thread, so, bye for now…

Life is a learning process. I just learned about the Didache last night in RCIA! (Maybe I had heard about it before, but never paid attention).

Watch out, though, this Forum is highly addictive! :yup:

 

[qui_est_ce]

Thanks, I think I’m going to enjoy this. I really enjoy my discussions with my Catholic friend from work. We have lively, but, respectful debates and I’m learning a lot that I never learned as a young Catholic. We’ll this subject is probably for another thread, so, bye for now…

Have you seen this thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=192532

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Quote:
To find the truth seek out the wisdom of the ages.

Quote (AgnosTheist):

yeah like the wisdom of the ages which says that the earth is flat.

Have you investigated? What have you found? How has the original teaching varied, or not? How close to the source (Jesus and his apostles)is the teaching?

Give up using logic with Aggy,… now.

He’s not interested in anything but simple contradiction of anything he doesn’t agree with.

A good example of this is the above “exchange”, where he posits that a “wisdom of the ages” is the flat earth theory.

Since he has no interest in working toward understanding, he’s not worth anyone’s time in conversation,… unless you enjoy the “I know you are but what am I…!?” game.

Best to both of you.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Now YOU are verse slinging???

Its been quite a while the last time i was engaged in serious bible verse slingings…that was before 9/11/2001. And as much as i try to avoid it, in these kinds of discussion- its unavoidable.

I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking you. You are a better apologist than I.

i just remember bits & pieces of the bible now. i think paul gets it from visions or dreams. i’m not so sure. what do you think?

Galatians 2:9:
“and when they recognized the grace bestowed upon me [Paul], James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas their right hands in partnership, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.”

This is what “laying of hands” and Apostolic Succession is about.

it says ‘right hands in partnership’. its a partnership, not a succession. a successor is someone who follows to take over.

its interesting that 3 people were referred to as pillars. that means peter really isnt the only foundation of the church. and it sounds like an unbalanced division of labor. the 12 apostles to the jews, while Paul & Barnabas to the Gentiles. thats a lot bigger responsibility to the latter 2. Paul should have been credited as the 1st pope, since all the popes who followed were gentiles.

And we do such a good job

 

[qui_est_ce]

its interesting that 3 people were referred to as pillars. that means peter really isnt the only foundation of the church. and it sounds like an unbalanced division of labor. the 12 apostles to the jews, while Paul & Barnabas to the Gentiles. thats a lot bigger responsibility to the latter 2. Paul should have been credited as the 1st pope, since all the popes who followed were gentiles.

Life isn’t fair, is it?

 

[AgnosTheist]

If you really want to have fun, go here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2879362#post2879362

In fact I COMMAND you.

i checked it out. looks its been beaten to death already. i mean, what more can i add there? every angle has been discussed.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

So, which Church?

catholic
protestant
orthodox

Answer, None of above, Jesus was speaking to the apostles, and the protestant, catholic, orthodox churches are products of development of doctrine over time.

 

[Marc1152]

catholic
protestant
orthodox

Answer, None of above, Jesus was speaking to the apostles, and the protestant, catholic, orthodox churches are products of development of doctrine over time.

Not really. The unified Church, what is now both Western and Eastern branches was organized immediately after Pentecost. Missionaries sent out followed soon by organized Jurisdictions, Bishops appointed etc.All within the lifetime of the Apostiles.

The Church was and is a physical entity, with a traceable history. It was not invisible or just a set of doctrines. It existed concretely and still does today. You can find it in the directory and take a bus over to it.

Marc