I've no idea...

[DOShea]

This teacher displays a poor understanding of the Ten Commandments if he thinks that the Sixth Commandment is only relevant to adults. All of the Decalogue, understood spiritually, applies to every Christian, in every stage of life. Only, it applies in different ways, according to one’s calling and station in life, and one’s age, etc. But the Ten Commandments should be taught at an early age to all Baptized children; these children are cheated otherwise. They should be taught to recite the text of the Commandments, as well as a brief definition of each, which cuts to the essence of the Commandment. .

In fairness to the OP, this was something I brought up. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be taught, it obviously has to otherwise there would be 9 commandments in the list vice 10. I’m saying that, along the same lines you say “applies in different ways,” there is not much more than the basic teaching of it given to 7-year-olds because that is all they are capable of truly understanding at that age. There are simple terms they can understand the concept of this commandment in without the same kind of discussion that might, for example, take place in an adult RCIA class. That’s different than omitting it, which I am NOT suggesting.

Preparing them for a first confession, it doesn’t seem to me much time need be spent dealing with this commandment for someone who is 7 because it’s unlikely they are breaking it. Better to put the emphasis on the areas where they might be sinning and help them to learn how to confess those sins.

 

[Dicerning]

I may not have made it clear. Mom is for her receiving. Dad is the one with serious reservations, and I have to admit he made some points I have to admit made sense to me. Chief among them was: If communion in the CC is an expression of agreement with the doctrines of the CC than how can a child who doesn’t know, been taught, or understand those doctrines make this decision? It’s kind of really bugged me that I didn’t have ANY KIND of answer for that. All I could do was:shrug:

The parents never got married in the Catholic church and purposely skipped out on purpose in the marrieage issue? If that is the Case you made an understatement in the fact that she was a Cafeteria Catholic. The mother isn’t even in communion with the church. IMHO this is no different that baptism. The child is NOT being raised Catholic so she shouldn’t be doing the communion thing. And he mother should be informed that she is not in communion with the Church. Not by you of course by the parish priest. You are doing the right thing by referring. Good for you for being such a good teacher and wise in your decisions.

 

[Seatuck]

The school is clearly taking the steps for bringing a young child baptized in another faith into the church by educating her and offering the sacraments to her. This child is becoming Catholic although in a irregular way because there doesn’t seem to be direct parental consent. Or there could be because we don’t have the Mother’s side of the story.

No , she should not receive the Sacrament of Communion until the issues are resolved.
Mother needs to get her marriage situation straitened out. Mother obviously shouldn’t be receiving communion at Mass when they go. She may or may not realize this. She needs to be honest and direct about what she wants for her child.
No wonder the guy feels lied to . It may be coming partly from his wife. Perhaps she has regrets over her decisions and is hoping to do better for her daughter. We just don’t know.The school may be getting mixed messages and that is also causing confusion.

They need to sit down with the principal and the DRE and work this out.

 

[kage_ar]

She was baptized Methodist, not Catholic.

Then until she makes a profession of Faith, she is a protestant Christian.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

They need to sit down with the principal and the DRE and work this out.

They need to sit down with the priest. He is the one in charge of administering the sacraments.

 

[kage_ar]

She was baptized Methodist, not Catholic

The Catholic Church recognizes all baptisms as valid. I am part of an RCIA group and someone coming into the Church who has been baptized in another faith tradition is not baptized again. So, the question is “when does someone become a Catholic?”/QUOTE

After the Rite of Acceptance during RCIA a person is considered Catholic (in as far as they can then go to Confession, may have a Catholic funeral if they die, etc.)

For children under age of reason (age 7), they become Catholic when one or both parents make that step. If the child is over 7, they do it for themselves.

The person telling people that a little baptized protestant girl is Catholic is not well informed of the conversion process.

 

[ibkc]

What a total mess.

Yes, and something about it doesn’t pass the smell test with me, frankly. The blow-by-blow “Wait! Dad just called me all angry again!” “Ooooh, I just got off the phone with him again!” stuff, the shifting stories about where Mom stands in all this, the fact that this parent is apparently calling the (Protestant) teacher who can’t do anything about any of this instead of the DRE like he should be, this poster’s past history of posting odd things about Catholic schools, and, most ridiculously of all: the claim that the diocese is telling him that the girl is considered a “practicing Catholic” when she clearly was not baptised Catholic and the parent is supposedly irate - sorry, but I’m having a really hard time believing this is all true.

 

[kage_ar]

most ridiculously of all: the claim that the diocese is telling him that the girl is considered a “practicing Catholic” when she clearly was not baptised Catholic and the parent is supposedly irate - sorry, but I’m having a really hard time believing this is all true.

What people are TOLD and what they HEAR are sometimes very much different things. My guess, someone tried to say in a nice way “if the mom decided to take God and the afterlife seriously and decided that her daughter should actually practice the Faith, this daughter’s baptism ‘counts’ and the little girl can make her profession of Faith at FHC and be considered a practicing Catholic”. I-hate-catholics dad only hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest…

 

[Jesus_123]

…

As stated on another thread.

A child under the age of reason (about 7) becomes Catholic when a Catholic parent has the child Baptized or ** registers their childs non-Catholic Baptism with the parish**. At that time the additional Rites of Baptism are supplied.

A child over the age of reason would go through RCIA Adapted for children and complete all their Sacraments of Initiation at one time when it is determined they are ready.

For any child to prepare and receive any Sacrament in the Catholic Church the parent MUST be required to present a certified and sealed Baptism certificate from a Catholic parish. This is available for children who were Baptized in a non-Catholic Community when they are entered into the parish Baptismal register.

The Magesterial Teaching in The Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite clear in regard to non-Catholic’s not being able to receive communion in the Catholic Church . . . please see the Post #12 on the link below for quotes from the Catechism re this . . .

:compcoff: Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=423044

However . . . the comment highlighted in red in Br. Rich SFO’s post above might explain why there is confusion in regard to this particular child’s status . . . but the authoritative citations are needed for reference . . . **Br. Rich . . . do you have any authority you can share with us . . . ? . . . **to clarify more clearly this aspect of the possibility of becoming a member of the Catholic Church if a Catholic parent enters the child’s baptism into a Catholic Parish’s Baptismal Register . . . ? . . . I checked on the Vatican site and several places on the web . . . but didn’t find anything . . . which doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist . . . but more probably means that the specific search criteria I used just isn’t picking up anything . . .

If the above highlighted policy is indeed valid Catholic policy . . . and the Catholic mother in question registered her child’s non-Catholic Methodist Baptismal Certificate in a local Catholic church (not just with the school) . . . this could explain why the child could be considered Catholic . . . as quoted above this does not require both parents permission for the registration . . . but if this has not occurred . . . going by the Catechism . . . it would appear that incorrect information is being given to these parents all round . . .

I would recommend the teacher . . . not a emotional parent . . . check with the school’s Parish priest re the facts in regard to the above highlighted possibility . . . thoroughly . . . if the Catholic mother did not engage in this activity of registering the child’s purportedly valid Methodist baptism in a Catholic Church’s Baptismal Registry prior to her reaching the age of reason . . . *(assuming at this point that the above highlighted section is a valid policy) *then surely the teachings of the Catechism would rule in this case . . . and the child cannot be considered Catholic . . . and is precluded from receiving the **Holy Eucharist **at this time until or unless she . . . of her own free will . . . decides to become Catholic . . . and follows the normal pathway for a non-Catholic to enter the Catholic Church . . .

If before the child reached the age of reason/discernment/discretion . . . *which **Catholic Canon Law *records is approximately the age of seven (7) . . . the Catholic mother entered into the above quoted highlighted activity . . . this could explain why there is confusion in this individual case . . . and if this policy is valid . . . then the child is Catholic . . .

There needs to be further research . . . and then discussion of Church policy and the Catechism regulations need to be clarified for these parents by an authority who can intelligently speak for the Church on such matters . . . the Bishop himself . . . not a perhaps poorly informed member of his staff . . . is the best final authority when all the facts of the case are researched and clarified . . . he has the final judgment responsibility . . .

This very well may just be a matter of misinformation . . . I’m sure it can be cleared up satisfactorily one way or another . . . when all the facts are known and considered by clerical authority within the diocese . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Holy Mother Mary please guide and direct+
​

 

[Deacon_Latif]

I am a Catholic and I learned that as well, in even more detail. (Impure thoughts, actions, lewd talk, etc.)

To be clear, Dorothy, Lutheran catechetical tradition does not shy from teaching a commandment like this in all its depth, but as I say, we tend to do so in an age appropriate manner. The text from the Small Catechism I quoted above is the basic explanation of the Commandment which is taught in the early grades.

 

[Deacon_Latif]

In fairness to the OP, this was something I brought up. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be taught, it obviously has to otherwise there would be 9 commandments in the list vice 10. I’m saying that, along the same lines you say “applies in different ways,” there is not much more than the basic teaching of it given to 7-year-olds because that is all they are capable of truly understanding at that age. There are simple terms they can understand the concept of this commandment in without the same kind of discussion that might, for example, take place in an adult RCIA class. That’s different than omitting it, which I am NOT suggesting.

Preparing them for a first confession, it doesn’t seem to me much time need be spent dealing with this commandment for someone who is 7 because it’s unlikely they are breaking it. Better to put the emphasis on the areas where they might be sinning and help them to learn how to confess those sins.

Sometimes I get lost with abbreviations; in this case, I’m not sure what OP means. But I get your point, and I’m sorry if it seemed my comment treated yours unfairly.

 

[Phemie]

Yes, and something about it doesn’t pass the smell test with me, frankly. The blow-by-blow “Wait! Dad just called me all angry again!” “Ooooh, I just got off the phone with him again!” stuff, the shifting stories about where Mom stands in all this, the fact that this parent is apparently calling the (Protestant) teacher who can’t do anything about any of this instead of the DRE like he should be, this poster’s past history of posting odd things about Catholic schools, and, most ridiculously of all: the claim that the diocese is telling him that the girl is considered a “practicing Catholic” when she clearly was not baptised Catholic and the parent is supposedly irate - sorry, but I’m having a really hard time believing this is all true.

I don’t have a problem believing it. Our daughter had a Protestant child in her parish catechism class who was all ready to make his First Communion. Fr. knew he was Protestant but if he wanted to receive and be Catholic he was going to be allowed to do so since the parents had no objection. In the end the boy opted not to receive but it was close.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The Magesterial Teaching in The Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite clear in regard to non-Catholic’s not being able to receive communion in the Catholic Church . . . please see the Post #12 on the link below for quotes from the Catechism re this . . .

:compcoff: Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=423044

However . . . the comment highlighted in red in Br. Rich SFO’s post above might explain why there is confusion in regard to this particular child’s status . . . but the authoritative citations are needed for reference . . . **Br. Rich . . . do you have any authority you can share with us . . . ? . . . **to clarify more clearly this aspect of the possibility of becoming a member of the Catholic Church if a Catholic parent enters the child’s baptism into a Catholic Parish’s Baptismal Register . . . ? . . . I checked on the Vatican site and several places on the web . . . but didn’t find anything . . . which doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist . . . but more probably means that the specific search criteria I used just isn’t picking up anything . . .

If the above highlighted policy is indeed valid Catholic policy . . . and the Catholic mother in question registered her child’s non-Catholic Methodist Baptismal Certificate in a local Catholic church (not just with the school) . . . this could explain why the child could be considered Catholic . . . as quoted above this does not require both parents permission for the registration . . . but if this has not occurred . . . going by the Catechism . . . it would appear that incorrect information is being given to these parents all round . . .

I would recommend the teacher . . . not a emotional parent . . . check with the school’s Parish priest re the facts in regard to the above highlighted possibility . . . thoroughly . . . if the Catholic mother did not engage in this activity of registering the child’s purportedly valid Methodist baptism in a Catholic Church’s Baptismal Registry prior to her reaching the age of reason . . . *(assuming at this point that the above highlighted section is a valid policy) *then surely the teachings of the Catechism would rule in this case . . . and the child cannot be considered Catholic . . . and is precluded from receiving the **Holy Eucharist **at this time until or unless she . . . of her own free will . . . decides to become Catholic . . . and follows the normal pathway for a non-Catholic to enter the Catholic Church . . .

If before the child reached the age of reason/discernment/discretion . . . *which **Catholic Canon Law ***records is approximately the age of seven (7) . . . the Catholic mother entered into the above quoted highlighted activity . . . this could explain why there is confusion in this individual case . . . and if this policy is valid . . . then the child is Catholic . . .

There needs to be further research . . . and then discussion of Church policy and the Catechism regulations need to be clarified for these parents by an authority who can intelligently speak for the Church on such matters . . . the Bishop himself . . . not a perhaps poorly informed member of his staff . . . is the best final authority when all the facts of the case are researched and clarified . . . he has the final judgment responsibility . . .

This very well may just be a matter of misinformation . . . I’m sure it can be cleared up satisfactorily one way or another . . . when all the facts are known and considered by clerical authority within the diocese . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Holy Mother Mary please guide and direct+

​

My post was not meant to exclude the possibility that two non-Catholic people could show up at a Catholic parish and ask that their childs Baptism be recorded in the parish records. Most pastors would ask if either were Catholic and intended to raise the child in the faith? He would not do so if neither were nor intended to raise the child Catholic. However in the oddball case, if he were to register the Baptism, the child would become a member of the Catholic Church.

 

[ibkc]

I don’t have a problem believing it. Our daughter had a Protestant child in her parish catechism class who was all ready to make his First Communion. Fr. knew he was Protestant but if he wanted to receive and be Catholic he was going to be allowed to do so since the parents had no objection. In the end the boy opted not to receive but it was close.

Yes, but that isn’t what’s claimed to be going on here at all. Here we have a parish AND diocese claimed to be pushing a child into all this despite the very angry objections of a parent. We also have the claim that this parent is repeatedly calling a Protestant teacher who knows nothing about the process and can’t do anything about it anyway, and shifting claims about whether the child’s mother has been passive-aggressively letting all this go on behind the dad’s back. Has she or hasn’t she?

In the spirit of charity I will suggest that if this is really true, Lutheranteach needs to excuse himself from the situation. The dad’s first issue is with the kid’s mother. From what we’re being told here, the two parents have not been on the same page at all regarding this child’s religious instruction. The second issue is with the DRE and the third is with the pastor. Lutheranteach can’t do anything about any of this, and this whole thing of taking phone calls, running back and breathlessly typing out dramatic updates to a group of people on the internet is pointless. The father needs to get with the mother and call a meeting with the school and the pastor. Full stop.

 

[Jesus_123]

My post was not meant to exclude the possibility that two non-Catholic people could show up at a Catholic parish and ask that their childs Baptism be recorded in the parish records. Most pastors would ask if either were Catholic and intended to raise the child in the faith? He would not do so if neither were nor intended to raise the child Catholic. However in the oddball case, if he were to register the Baptism, the child would become a member of the Catholic Church.

Hi Br. Rich SFO . . .

Do you know of any authoritative reference re a policy of registering of a non-Catholic baptism in a Catholic parish church registry . . . that might cover even part of this situation . . . ? . . .

. . . all for Jesus+​

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi Br. Rich SFO . . .

Do you know of any authoritative reference re a policy of registering of a non-Catholic baptism in a Catholic parish church registry . . . that might cover even part of this situation . . . ? . . .

. . . all for Jesus+​

I’m sure there is? It is just how it’s done when two people convert and have a child under the Age of Reason. Or when a Catholic parent who is returning to union with the Catholic Church presents their child who was Baptized in another Christian Community.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

**

Neither felt comfortable with promising to raise the child as a Catholic.

**

And then the child was baptized in the Methodist Church, correct? THEN SHE’S NOT CATHOLIC!!!

Honestly, I think it’s Mom who has the problem. Dad has made it clear he doesn’t want the child Catholic, it’s Mom who’s trying to find a “loophole” so she can somehow be “both”. Which, despite some misguided “pastoral” advice, is NOT possible in the Catholic Church.

In Christ,

Ellen

p.s.: and of course the poor little girl wants to do because all her friends are-she’s a kid! She obviously doesn’t understand the significance of the Sacrament (“it looks like fun”). It’d be the same if the rest of her class was going to a party at Chuck E Cheese and her Dad said she couldn’t go. I truly do feel sorry for her being caught in the middle like this.

 

[Seatuck]

They need to sit down with the priest. He is the one in charge of administering the sacraments.

Yes, the priest also. I would have suggested it but I didn’t think that likely to happen since the mom must know she would have to admit being in an invalid marriage and possibly the father not being respectful of the authority of the priest…

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Yes, the priest also. I would have suggested it but I didn’t think that likely to happen since the mom must know she would have to admit being in an invalid marriage and possibly the father not being respectful of the authority of the priest…

True, but nothing can be solved without him. The DRE can’t make the marriage valid and I doubt the dad would have anymore respect for him/her than he would for the priest.

 

[DOShea]

Sometimes I get lost with abbreviations; in this case, I’m not sure what OP means. But I get your point, and I’m sorry if it seemed my comment treated yours unfairly.

OP stands for “Original Poster,” the person who started the topic. No apology necessary, Deacon, I wasn’t clear the first time and just wanted to acknowledge I think we were actually on the same wavelength.