i've noticed something about christians

[rpp]

If Christian symbols were being * replaced* with symbols of those other religions, you might have a case. To expect that the symbols (and followers) of other religions and those of Christianity be given equal treatment under the law is not an attack.

False logic. I can oppress you without replacing you. If I plaint a wall plain white to hide a picture underneath, have I not hidden the picture? I do not need to paint another picture on top of it.

That are being replaced. Islam can be taught in public schools, but you cannot even have a Christian prayer. Menorahs are being

The religion that is being proigated is a scientific atheism.

It is even more insulting when people claim thay are not suppressing Christianity. So please stop insulting Christians.

 

[KarenNC]

To say Christians in America and Canada are not oppresed is demonstrably false. There is tremendous discrimination in public life.

Then feel free to demonstrate with personal examples. Please give me specific examples in which you, personally, have been discriminated against because of your religion.

 

[Peterdiago]

Then feel free to demonstrate with personal examples. Please give me specific examples in which you, personally, have been discriminated against because of your religion.

False logic, again - that would be like asking a Jew in Germany in 1943 to demonstrate that he was persecuted and concluding that, because he was not, the Holocaust never happened.

People do not need to provide a personal example in order for something to be true.

 

[jmcrae]

Then feel free to demonstrate with personal examples. Please give me specific examples in which you, personally, have been discriminated against because of your religion.

I have been told on numerous occasions by employment counsellors, etc. that I shouldn’t mention that I’m a Christian to potential employers - why might that be, do you think?

 

[KarenNC]

That are being replaced. Islam can be taught in public schools, but you cannot even have a Christian prayer. Menorahs are being

No Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Neopagan, etc is barred from offering private personal prayer in a public school. However, a teacher or other person in a position of authority may not require your child to recite a Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Neopagan prayer as part of his class nor may s/he tell your child that he can “go stand in the hall” as a legitimate option if he doesn’t agree with the prayer.

I would love to see examples of the curriculum used to teach Islam in the public schools. Could you provide a link to it?

As for menorahs, I am afraid I am not sure where you were going with that one.

 

[Maxply]

For me, it’s simple. Try to talk to anyone about religion and they look at you like you’re silly. Go more specific, talk about why you think the Catholic Church has a tremendous store of intellectual resources, has worked through many challenging theological and philosophical issues over the years that are connected to spiritual matters. . . and they glaze over and think you’re nutty.

As a Catholic, you time and time again hear about how “dogmatic” (code for goofy) the Church is, how “doctrine” (code for goofy) is bad. . . even from fellow Christians.

You get much more social credit/coolness if you trash or dismiss religion. Most any religion, but especially Christianity, since those nasty Christians are persecuting types . . . interesting how ALL Christians have to deal with the Jerry Falwell stereotype.

 

[rpp]

Then feel free to demonstrate with personal examples. Please give me specific examples in which you, personally, have been discriminated against because of your religion.

When speaking at a public hearing regarding homosexual message, I was permitted to say three words before my microphone was turned off and I was physically forced out the building. The words? “As a Christian…” I said nothing else nor did I fight back. I was thrown out, by the police for being a Christian.

 

[rpp]

No Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Neopagan, etc is barred from offering private personal prayer in a public school. However, a teacher or other person in a position of authority may not require your child to recite a Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Neopagan prayer as part of his class nor may s/he tell your child that he can “go stand in the hall” as a legitimate option if he doesn’t agree with the prayer.

I would love to see examples of the curriculum used to teach Islam in the public schools. Could you provide a link to it?

As for menorahs, I am afraid I am not sure where you were going with that one.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You cannot have a a Christian lead a prayer in public School, but you can have an Moslem Cleric come in lead one. It is part of the Grade School curriculum in my little town. They also invite witches (Wicca) and other religions. But explicitly and overtly exclude Christians.

All you are doing is denying the truth. Maybe if makes you feel better to pat a Christian on the head and say “There, there I don’t mean anything.” Just like white coutry sherriff in some anonymous southern town did to the family of a black man who has just been lynched.

Your denial of the obvious demonstrates your complicity in this.

 

[rpp]

No Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Neopagan, etc is barred from offering private personal prayer in a public school. However, a teacher or other person in a position of authority may not require your child to recite a Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Neopagan prayer as part of his class nor may s/he tell your child that he can “go stand in the hall” as a legitimate option if he doesn’t agree with the prayer.

I would love to see examples of the curriculum used to teach Islam in the public schools. Could you provide a link to it?

As for menorahs, I am afraid I am not sure where you were going with that one.

Sorry, I did not complete the sentence. It should have read, “Menorahs are being put up in airports at Christmas, but not Nativity scenes.”

 

[KarenNC]

I have been told on numerous occasions by employment counsellors, etc. that I shouldn’t mention that I’m a Christian to potential employers - why might that be, do you think?

Because it is illegal for a potential employer to ask you your religion in order to prevent religious discrimination in hiring practices. You could potentially place the hiring person in a position to be accused of providing you or others preferential or discriminatory treatment by bringing up your religion if it is not a bona fide job requirement.

jobsearch.about.com/od/interviewsnetworking/a/illegalinterv.htm

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/42/chapters/21/subchapters/vi/sections/section_2000e-2.html

Your religion should also be irrelevant to your job performance unless you are being hired for a religion-specific position such as a minister. Note that religious organizations are exempt from the requirements not to discriminate on the basis of religion. caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/42/chapters/21/subchapters/vi/sections/section_2000e-1.html

 

[KarenNC]

interesting how ALL Christians have to deal with the Jerry Falwell stereotype.

True. And all Neopagans have to deal with the “I read a book about Wicca and now I am the High Priestess of the Ancient Mystic Atlantean Wizards of the Pleiades coven–isn’t that cool (and my parents are so ticked)” stereotype. Incredibly aggravating on both counts.

 

[KarenNC]

When speaking at a public hearing regarding homosexual message, I was permitted to say three words before my microphone was turned off and I was physically forced out the building. The words? “As a Christian…” I said nothing else nor did I fight back. I was thrown out, by the police for being a Christian.

OK, I agree that that was wrong based on the details given. Was there a write up in the paper of the event? I would be interested to see the media treatment of it and any other surrounding details (such as whether this happened to others, etc).

And the other incidents (since you claim a consistent pattern of discrimination)?

 

[rpp]

I would love to see examples of the curriculum used to teach Islam in the public schools. Could you provide a link to it?

Here are some links.
This site is dedicated to to the issue of teaching Islams in US public schools.
blessedcause.org/TOC/Comparative%20Religion%20Religious%20Freedom.htm

News articles about what is going on in California:
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52335
truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/byronislam.htm

This site is dedicated to providing Islamic material specifically for public school educators.
islamicedfoundation.com/public.htm

 

[rpp]

OK, I agree that that was wrong based on the details given. Was there a write up in the paper of the event? I would be interested to see the media treatment of it and any other surrounding details (such as whether this happened to others, etc).

And the other incidents (since you claim a consistent pattern of discrimination)?

Of course there was no write up in the paper. There were many repoerters there including some outside. I was not the only Christian thrown out. When we apporached them about it, they all said they would only be interested if we were homosexuals being thrown out. One even *journalist *told us that Christian deserved to be thrown out.

Other incidents? In my metro area, two Christian churches recently have been denied building purmits to expand their facilities. The reason given? Improper use of land. One church was in a residential neighborhood. The other was in a rural area just outside of town. In both cases the churches had owned land for years and it was currently unused. Both churches appealed to the courts and the courts upheald the decision.

I would provide a link, but the only decent local news web site scrubbed the artiticles.

California requires all exployers who provide health insurance to include coverage for contraception, including voluntary sterilization. When various Catholic churches and diocese objected and asked for an exemption, they were refused and courts upheald that ruling. Moslem mosques were granted an exception.

 

[VociMike]

Then feel free to demonstrate with personal examples. Please give me specific examples in which you, personally, have been discriminated against because of your religion.

Why must they be personal examples?

Anyway, this website is a good source of anti-Christian, and in particular anti-Catholic, actions. Check their archives as well.

catholicleague.org/news.htm

 

[KarenNC]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You cannot have a a Christian lead a prayer in public School, but you can have an Moslem Cleric come in lead one. It is part of the Grade School curriculum in my little town. They also invite witches (Wicca) and other religions. But explicitly and overtly exclude Christians.

If it is part of the grade school curriculum, you should have no problem finding a reference to it in the school’s scope and sequence (the outlines for what is to be taught in each grade). Many school systems list theirs on their websites or have links to the state website showing it.

Even if you cannot find something in the state scope and sequence (the standards set for public school education), I am sure that the fact that Muslims clerics lead classes in prayers to Allah regularly made the papers somewhere, if not in your town. Perhaps it was mentioned in a church publication somewhere? Again, I would love to read further about it and see the exact details and context.

All you are doing is denying the truth. Maybe if makes you feel better to pat a Christian on the head and say “There, there I don’t mean anything.” Just like white coutry sherriff in some anonymous southern town did to the family of a black man who has just been lynched. Your denial of the obvious demonstrates your complicity in this.

Please provide specific evidence of my discrimination against you or any other Christian if you are going to make that accusation.

 

[rpp]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You cannot have a a Christian lead a prayer in public School, but you can have an Moslem Cleric come in lead one. It is part of the Grade School curriculum in my little town. They also invite witches (Wicca) and other religions. But explicitly and overtly exclude Christians.

If it is part of the grade school curriculum, you should have no problem finding a reference to it in the school’s scope and sequence (the outlines for what is to be taught in each grade). Many school systems list theirs on their websites or have links to the state website showing it.

Even if you cannot find something in the state scope and sequence (the standards set for public school education), I am sure that the fact that Muslims clerics lead classes in prayers to Allah regularly made the papers somewhere, if not in your town. Perhaps it was mentioned in a church publication somewhere? Again, I would love to read further about it and see the exact details and context.

See my previous posts.

Please provide specific evidence of my discrimination against you or any other Christian if you are going to make that accusation.

Clear evidence, in the form of personal experiences and links to numerous articles have been provided to you. If it were not for discrimination, organiuzation like the Catholic League, the Anti-Defamation Leaaue, and the American Family Association, would not even exist.

Those who denied (and still deny) the Nazi Death Camps helped those ran them. Those who claimed that black people were well off in the South participated in discrimination. Those who help cover-0up a problem are part of the problem. When you deny that this obvious discrimination exists, you participate and furthering it.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I’m an archaeologist and it has always been very upsetting to me that my collegues make no attept to disguise their disgust for Christianity, while at the same time speaking as reverently as possible about any other type of (or lack of) religion.

I was once scolded by someone and accused of being intolerant for relating an episode of the “Simpsons” where Homer disguised himself as the elephant-headed Hindu diety Ganesh.

It’s cool to be anti-Christian in intellectual circles.

1. Maybe it’s because most other religions don’t have the atrocious record that Christianity has.​

1. Maybe the people you know have met only Christians who are throughly unpleasant people. Christians are a pretty ghastly lot - they are the worst possible advertisement for Christianity. There’s no point rabbiting on about saints (as people sometimes do) because most Christians are indistinguishable from so-called non-Christians - one can hardly judge of a religion by looking only at the bst examples of those who adhere to it; a far better test is to look at the how the “average Christian” behaves. And if the averafge Christian is as greedy, stupid, selfish, adulterous, bad-tempered, dishonest, & foul-mouhed as his neighbour who claim to be Christian, then Christianity is obviously not important enough to people for them to want to change their ways; which doesn’t say very much for it.

Besides, most criminals in “Christian” countries are Christian - prisons are crammmed to bursting with Christian rapists, Christian money-launderers, Christian wife-beaters, Christian perjurers, Christian paedophiles, Christian traitors, & other equally vile scum. It is Christianity that has spawned the lying, fornicating, deceiving, hypocritical televangelist who exploits the fears & credulity of the ignorant & the lonely, & battens on the thousands of dollars he wheedles out of them with his frauds & lies. No punishment is too harsh for those who exploit others by using religion. They ought to be deprived of all civil rights, like the wolves they are.

There is a great deal to be said for making this religion illegal. It is a fact that Christianity is always attractive when it is persecuted. And it is always sickest & most self-satisfied, when it is most powerful & comfortable. Which is partly why the Reformation was necessary; there is a vast difference betyween the martyred & crucified St.Peter, and “Our Most Holy Lord” the Pope 1450 years later.

Your colleagues are reacting to what is disgusting in a healthy way. If they admired or condoned what is disgusting for being disgusting, that would be worrying; but to be revolted by what is revolting is entirely appropriate. To defend what is disgusting & worthy to be called disgusting would be a very unhealthy & perverted reaction. ##

 

[KarenNC]

**]Clear evidence, in the form of personal experiences **

??? Asking you to provide details to back up your claim of a systematic program of active discrimination against Christians with examples of your personal oppression is oppressing you?

and links to numerous articles have been provided to you. If it were not for discrimination, organiuzation like the Catholic League, the Anti-Defamation Leaaue, and the American Family Association, would not even exist.

The Anti Defamation League is aimed at discrimination against Jews, not Christians. It’s existence (as well as that of any other anti-discrimination group) can hardly be cited as proof that I discriminate against Christians. You claimed that I personally do such. I am asking you to back this up in regards to me as an individual, not simply link me to more rhetoric about how everyone else “persecutes” you.

There also exist groups to combat discrimination against Islam, Wicca, other Neopagan religions, etc.

I have never denied there were individual incidents of discrimination against any number of groups, religious or otherwise. We do not live in a perfect world or a perfect country.

I did state that I simply do not see a systematic campaign of oppression against Christians any more than I do against any other religion in this country, including mine. Playing a game of “I’m more persecuted than you” (and it is done by many groups, including Neopagans) is not helpful to anyone.

We should all be grateful that we do not live in a country that does actively persecute people (ie kill them, deny them basic civil rights or citizenship) based on their religion and that we no longer have laws, such as many of the ones existing around the time of the founding of our country, that extended civil rights to all “except Papists.”

Those who denied (and still deny) the Nazi Death Camps helped those ran them. Those who claimed that black people were well off in the South participated in discrimination. Those who help cover-0up a problem are part of the problem. When you deny that this obvious discrimination exists, you participate and furthering it.

When you are more interested in rational civil discussion than name-calling, I will be glad to talk with you further.

 

[Rawb]

KarenNC, just to add to your examples (I was class of 2006);

Third grade we had a lady come in and explain Judiasm to us. Nobody taught us about Christianity, Buddhism, or Neopaganism.

Seventh Grade, in English/History (The class was connected) we read a book about a Muslim girl while we learned about Islam. I can still remember very clearly learning about the Muslim Hell. We played a game over a series of weeks where we were sorted into groups and, as we earned points, got closer and closer to Mecca. That same year when we learned about the Medieval times we didn’t learn anything about Christianity’s importance in the era, particularly Catholicism. In fact, we were sent home a letter stating that no religious ideas would be presented in the unit.

High school history we learn about Islam/Judaism/Christianity together. Sort of. Jesus was presented as a ‘prophet’ so they didn’t even get Christianity right. Brief one page on Christianity and Judaism, another huge section on Islam, more studying it. Large section on Early Creation Myths of the Hindu, Aztecs, and Chinese. While discussing the “Dark Ages” were shown how the Church suppressed all intellectual thought. In English, when I tried to present Christian ideas in interpretations of a poem, I was told I was wrong and to look at it again. I wrote it my way and recieved a lower grade.

So a brief overview of the typical public school education, put forth for your interpretation.