i've noticed something about christians

[KarenNC]

Does North Carolina count as Bible Belt territory?

Smack dab in the middle of it . And, to answer a related question, no, I am not in a rural area (unless you compare us to New York ). I am on the fringe (almost literally on the city/county line) of one of the largest cities in the Southeast. Our area is listed as the 37th largest “metropolitan statistical area” of the country–so smaller than some, a lot larger than most others. Admittedly some of this is not quite as intense in the city (10 miles away). For comparison purposes, the Portland, OR area is listed as 25th in the same chart, St. Louis area the 18th (out of 50, 50th being Salt Lake City, UT)

Today in the local paper (not the Christian one) our daily Bible verse was Ephesians 2:4-5, the daily prayer "Thank you, God, for our love that pulls us toward you. Amen."and the thought for the day “Before we knew God, God knew and loved us.” It’s reprinted from The Upper Room upperroom.org/.

The CEO of the Regional Chamber of Commerce for was quoted on Dec 22 in the paper.

*Cox said he was asked recently if, because of the expected influx of new cultures and religions to the county, the Chamber would have to cease praying to the Christian God at its meetings. “Do I think that means we should stop praying?” he said. “No. Do I think we should be respectful of those who (worship differently)? Yes.” *

In the regional paper, we had a continued argument in letters to the editor about whether the commandment is “thou shalt not kill” or “thou shalt not murder” and Billy Graham (placed in the middle of the comics) was advising, as every day, on the path to salvation.

As I said earlier in the thread, I am not bringing this up to say that I feel I as a Neopagan am particularly discriminated against, even in this atmosphere. Aware of my status as a minority religion, yes, and hyperaware of the need to be watchful for the influences and effects on my young child, absolutely, but I don’t feel I am the target of a campaign of deliberate discrimination. Things could be better (and they are getting slowly more equitable–by microns sometimes, but it’s progress), but they could be infinitely worse as well.

Now do I think individuals in my area may be prejudiced against or bigoted toward my religion–no question, I’ve encountered some of them. For the majority, though, I think what is really needed is continued education in what a truly diverse community looks like and how it functions, where the diversity extends beyond whether one is Catholic or Protestant. It’s a case of what to do when the “rubber meets the road” rather than in theory. It requires a shift in awareness and a rethinking of old habits.

 

[rpp]

I think it’s because Christians are the only religion that prostylitize heavily. Catholics and Mainline Christians don’t so much but there are a lot of Baptists and Fundamentalists that can be quite obnoxious about it. When I lived in Houston, I had people approach me all the time and threaten me with hell because I was Lutheran and not Christian.

That and all the bumper stickers and slogans that a lot of Christians like to plaster all over everything. It’s hokey, it’s tacky and it’s disrespectful. When is the last time you’ve seen a Muslim wearing a shirt saying “Allah, it’s the real thing” imitating a coke slogan? Or a Jew wearing a Tommy “Hellfighter” shirt? It makes Christianity look cheap and superficial, IMO. You may disagree but I find myself ridiculing that kind of stuff thinking things like, “Wow! Aren’t you just the bestest Christian ever?”

I call it Churchianity and not Christianity and for the most part Catholicism doesn’t seem to buy into as much as some of the Protestant groups.

While I would like to see Catholics be more proactive in helping people to learn the Truth about God, His Mercy (and His Justice), I have to agree with you about the in-your-face stuff you described. It does cheapen the message.

When people do something that both clever and original, not to mention in good taste, that is what will get people’s grateful attention. Scare tactics never work. Looking at Christianity as “fire insurance” is certainly a serious turn-off for someone from a secular background who has more than a couple of functioning brain cells.

One other point. In the second sentence of your first paragraph, you made a redundant statement. “Catholics and Mainline Christians…” Since Catholic are the mainline Christians , I think you meant to say “Non-Evangelical Protestants”. (I hope you understand that say this is intended to be a good natured and well-meaning tease. )

 

[malachi_a_serva]

Hello reborn_pagan. This should prove to you that Christianity IS the true religion.

The world ACCEPTS all others with open arms…WHY? because Satan is the prince of this world and wants anybody/everybody in:
a) a false religious system
or
b) not accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as their LORD and SAVIOR - they are allowed to chose ALLAH, or Budda, or whoever or even NOTHING…but definately not Jesus Christ. WHY? Because he is the only way to the Father and Salvation. And all other answers lead to eternal damnation.

I haven’t read your profile. Jesus himself said the world would hate Christians because they (the world) hated him (The Lord Jesus Christ) first (his message of course).

I will read your profile and past comments to get an idea of where you are at. You are at this forum for a reason…

That reason being a step towards accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I know it. You know it.



Accept him and you will be able to repent of your sins and have eternal life.

 

[rpp]

**Matthew 5
11 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: 12 Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.

Luke 21
11 And there shall be great earthquakes in divers places, and pestilences, and famines, and terrors from heaven; and there shall be great signs. 12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands upon you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, dragging you before kings and governors, for my name’s sake. **

Unfortunatley the truth isn’t very popular in this crazy world of ours!

Good quotes! In todays first reading at Mass (I am a daily Communicant) was from Hebrews and was basically what Matthew wrote.

 

[reborn_pagan]

Hello reborn_pagan. This should prove to you that Christianity IS the true religion.

The world ACCEPTS all others with open arms…WHY? because Satan is the prince of this world and wants anybody/everybody in:
a) a false religious system
or
b) not accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as their LORD and SAVIOR - they are allowed to chose ALLAH, or Budda, or whoever or even NOTHING…but definately not Jesus Christ. WHY? Because he is the only way to the Father and Salvation. And all other answers lead to eternal damnation.

I haven’t read your profile. Jesus himself said the world would hate Christians because they (the world) hated him (The Lord Jesus Christ) first (his message of course).

I will read your profile and past comments to get an idea of where you are at. You are at this forum for a reason…

That reason being a step towards accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I know it. You know it.



Accept him and you will be able to repent of your sins and have eternal life.

-.- no offense but its stuff like that i do not like, i get on here talking about how christians get the short end of the stick and i’m not fighting them for once and yet i still got people wanting me to convert to them…and the reason i am here is not to take a first step to christianity, but to try telling people what wicca is all about. and if i accept christ it will not be because of you or anyother person in my life who has told me to do so…but because i choose to.

and there is nothing that you said makes catholics being the ONE TRUE RELIGION

 

[rpp]

Hello reborn_pagan. This should prove to you that Christianity IS the true religion.

The world ACCEPTS all others with open arms…WHY? because Satan is the prince of this world and wants anybody/everybody in:
a) a false religious system
or
b) not accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as their LORD and SAVIOR - they are allowed to chose ALLAH, or Budda, or whoever or even NOTHING…but definately not Jesus Christ. WHY? Because he is the only way to the Father and Salvation. And all other answers lead to eternal damnation.

I haven’t read your profile. Jesus himself said the world would hate Christians because they (the world) hated him (The Lord Jesus Christ) first (his message of course).

I will read your profile and past comments to get an idea of where you are at. You are at this forum for a reason…

That reason being a step towards accepting The Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I know it. You know it.



Accept him and you will be able to repent of your sins and have eternal life.

-.- no offense but its stuff like that i do not like, i get on here talking about how christians get the short end of the stick and i’m not fighting them for once and yet i still got people wanting me to convert to them…and the reason i am here is not to take a first step to christianity, but to try telling people what wicca is all about. and if i accept christ it will not be because of you or anyother person in my life who has told me to do so…but because i choose to.

and there is nothing that you said makes catholics being the ONE TRUE RELIGION

With much sincere respect to both sides here. I think this is a discussion best left for another thread.

Reborn_pagan, I appreciate your observations about the plight of Christians in many parts of this country. While I myself am certainly not a Pagan, (and I do believe the Catholic Church is the one true religion) I also realize that should you choose to look into it, you will do it your own time and in a way which addresses your questions.

malachi_a_serva, while it is good speak of the Lord “in season and out of season” it is also important not to drive people away. I would say that you are almost certainly correct in your assesment. Perhaps even unwittingly doubly so. The Catholic Church is not only attacked by all the same people who attack Christians in general, it is also attacked by many Protestant groups, like those who target Catholics for “conversion” or who think the publisher Jack Chic has got it right. So if we use your first sentence as a proof, you should get to to Catholic Church just as soon as possible!

 

[malachi_a_serva]

Hi reborn_pagan; definately I agree with you…you will not accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour because of anything I or anyone else has to say. It is between you and GOD.

I did not say that Catholicism was the one true religion, but that Christianity is the only way to receive salvation. I didn’t mean anything by my post, just that I do not want to see you go to HELL. That is all. I believe God wants me to as per;

EZEKIAL 3: 18-19
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

With the logic I used, I recall many non-Catholics in History being persecuted and put to death via the RCC, but I agree that RC’s are persecuted, as are Protestants - the common denominator in both is The Lord Jesus Christ, hence the attacks. I myself am not Catholic nor am I a Protestant. I would bet Satan wants all to avoid anything that mentions The Lord Jesus Christ…in fear someone would be lead to God’s saving Grace and be reborn.

 

[rpp]

With the logic I used, I recall many non-Catholics in History being persecuted and put to death via the RCC, but I agree that RC’s are persecuted, as are Protestants - the common denominator in both is The Lord Jesus Christ, hence the attacks. **I myself am not Catholic nor am I a Protestant. ** I would bet Satan wants all to avoid anything that mentions The Lord Jesus Christ…in fear someone would be lead to God’s saving Grace and be reborn.

And the English, who wrote nearly all the history we English-speaking Americans inherited, killed more Catholics during the reigns of Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth I than did the entire 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition.

There have been many sectarian wars since the Reformation. Every last one of them is a sad sorry example of Man at his worst.

As for your second bolded comment, I do not understand it. Either you are Catholic (or Eastern Ortodox) or you <>, that is reject, the many teachings of the Church which the entire Western world held to for about 1500 years and seek some other. If you are Christian, you are one or the other. The idea of a “parrallel true Church” (e.g. Trail of Blood) is a badly told myth.

The rest of what you said, particularly the last sentence, is exactly right!

 

[malachi_a_serva]

I stand corrected. You are right. I am personally a “protestant” as I once belonged to the Roman Catholic Church. The church I attend is non denominational but holds to the Baptist theology. It is independent and and some hold that they were never part of the Roman Catholic Church. I don’t challenge them on their position; but you are right, I am a protestant. I do not like the term as I do not wish to protest against anyone or anything. Yet, to stand for the truth as a Born Again believer; if that labels me a protestant than so be it. By the Grace of GOD, if I could have protested Jesus’s unjustly persecution I would do so (easier said than done, nonetheless I woud like to think so) with the LORD’s strength anything is possible. His crucifiction could not be stopped however as it was God’s will.

I have been away almost 1 yr from this forum and do not wish to attack nor argue. Just voice opinions, read opinions, challenge (in a charitable way) opinions, and understand positions. I am unbendable on the “Jesus” is the only way to Salvation position. If that offends you or anyone else - that is between them and GOD; not me. and we all know it will offend people…as the point I raised. This is Satan’s playground…

For now…

 

[JimmyJeff]

While I would like to see Catholics be more proactive in helping people to learn the Truth about God, His Mercy (and His Justice), I have to agree with you about the in-your-face stuff you described. It does cheapen the message.

When people do something that both clever and original, not to mention in good taste, that is what will get people’s grateful attention. Scare tactics never work. Looking at Christianity as “fire insurance” is certainly a serious turn-off for someone from a secular background who has more than a couple of functioning brain cells.

One other point. In the second sentence of your first paragraph, you made a redundant statement. “Catholics and Mainline Christians…” Since Catholic are the mainline Christians , I think you meant to say “Non-Evangelical Protestants”. (I hope you understand that say this is intended to be a good natured and well-meaning tease. )

No offense taken. I was trying to say maybe Methodist, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc? I think. Anything not fundamentalist? Non-Catholic Protestants belonging to a mainline denominations found in the United States of America just seems so wordy.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

while it is good speak of the Lord “in season and out of season” it is also important not to drive people away.

Hello rpp. I believe this is where/how our Christian faith has been so watered down. We do not want to offend people. As a parent, tough love is short term pain for long term gain. They (children) come to realize that a parent’s sternness was in and for their best interest.

As I read the Holy Bible I see The Lord Jesus Christ being graceful to the humble, but giving the law to the proud and unrepentant. Giving someone the law is offensive to the recipient.

Let me use this illustration;
As a father I will do anything to keep my sons from having any sexual relations before they are married. I will do anything within my means as a parent. If it needs to be “tough love” than so be it. If I worry about if it will “offend him/them” or “drive them away from me”…that is their choice. To be passive and idly stand by would be irresponsible.

If my son were to contract AIDS because I was afraid of offending him or driving him away…I would be derelict in my duty as a Father. He would get AIDS and (presumably) die an early death.

It is no different for the unsaved person. If they die in their sins, they have eternal punishment. Not pleasant. I would be derelict in my duty as a Christian if I did not do everything I could to prevent that from happening. As I stated above as well, GOD is going to hold ME accountable as well:

EZEKIAL 3: 18-19
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

But I do understand your position and/or rationale from a humanistic and secular perspective.

 

[rpp]

Hello rpp. I believe this is where/how our Christian faith has been so watered down. We do not want to offend people. As a parent, tough love is short term pain for long term gain. They (children) come to realize that a parent’s sternness was in and for their best interest.

As I read the Holy Bible I see The Lord Jesus Christ being graceful to the humble, but giving the law to the proud and unrepentant. Giving someone the law is offensive to the recipient.

Let me use this illustration;
As a father I will do anything to keep my sons from having any sexual relations before they are married. I will do anything within my means as a parent. If it needs to be “tough love” than so be it. If I worry about if it will “offend him/them” or “drive them away from me”…that is their choice. To be passive and idly stand by would be irresponsible.

If my son were to contract AIDS because I was afraid of offending him or driving him away…I would be derelict in my duty as a Father. He would get AIDS and (presumably) die an early death.

It is no different for the unsaved person. If they die in their sins, they have eternal punishment. Not pleasant. I would be derelict in my duty as a Christian if I did not do everything I could to prevent that from happening. As I stated above as well, GOD is going to hold ME accountable as well:

EZEKIAL 3: 18-19
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

But I do understand your position and/or rationale from a humanistic and secular perspective.

I am not quite sure I am comfortable with the label of “humanistic and secular” being applied to what I wrote. That seems like a distortion to me. “Interpersonal” would be more accurate.

Your quote from Ezekial is, by the way, one of my favorites. It is also a Mass reading in the Catholic Church for Daily Mass (Cycle 1) and Sunday Mass (Cycle B). Catholic certainly have a poor reputation in this department. But not all of us live down to that reputation.

It does not matter how good or right your message is. If your method of delivery drives them away, you have lost. Should you convert someone by threatening them with death? Of course not. Coerced conversion cannot be definitions be conversions of the heart. (Moslems, by the way, differ with Christians here. But that is a different matter.) Likewise, when you insult them or annoy them, they stop listening to you then you will never be heard.

Not driving people away has absolutely nothing to do with watering down the faith. Luther is a good example. As an Augustinian (A Catholic Order) monk, many of his complaints and observations were valid and needed attention. However, he was so rude, mean, arrrogant and disrepectful in his interpersonal behavior that the people who needed to hear him the most turned a deaf ear and rejected him as a oaf and bully. (Now there is much more to how the Reformation stated than this, but it certainly was a critical aspect.) That is what I meant.

To walk up to someone and say “unless you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you’re going to Hell.” is a real turn off. It does not matter if it is true. They have stopped listening. All you have succeeded in foing is making it even more difficult for that person to be receptive God’s message.

A Catholic teaching is that no one is brought to the Lord without His grace. No one can receive this grace unless they choose to, even if that choice is indistinct and a non-specific search for Truth.

Spreading God’s word is is not (just) about scolding people. It is also choosing effective forms, venues and topics for commincation. Until people accept the Teachings of Christ, threatening them with Hell will usually have the opposite effect. It is only when they believe that the idea of the pains of Hell begins to have an effect.

(This, by the way, is why I think the idea of “eternal security” makes no sense. The threat of Hell has little impact if you do not believe in it. But if you believe in Jesus, and eternal security, it is no longer an issue. Just commit as much sin as you want, be a serial murderer/rapist/porn star, it does not matter because at the moment you will be with Jesus. Not only am I a former atheist(for 20+ years), I am a former fundamentalist Baptist who spent a year at Bible College.)

 

[edmonb1]

But latley i’ve noticed that christians get stuck with the short end of the stick sometimes

That is what the devil does to the true religion. And he does it inside of Christianity by having other Christian religions trying to sway people away from Catholicism

 

[jmcrae]

Hello rpp. I believe this is where/how our Christian faith has been so watered down. We do not want to offend people. As a parent, tough love is short term pain for long term gain. They (children) come to realize that a parent’s sternness was in and for their best interest.

Yes, but if you are not that person’s parent, then you have to speak to them as an equal - we cannot drag everyone to Church with us against their will - the only people we can do that to are our own children.

Most people take great offense when they are treated like naughty children by people they don’t even know very well, and they will not hear what you have to say, if you can’t say it to them in a loving manner.

As I read the Holy Bible I see The Lord Jesus Christ being graceful to the humble, but giving the law to the proud and unrepentant. Giving someone the law is offensive to the recipient.

Yes, but Jesus was Lord of the Temple, and had the right, given by the authority of God, to chastise His own servants. He wasn’t just some random stranger coming along from out of nowhere and giving them heck - He was their Lord.

If He had not been their Lord, then He would have had no right to command them anything.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

I am not quite sure I am comfortable with the label of “humanistic and secular” being applied to what I wrote. That seems like a distortion to me. “Interpersonal” would be more accurate.

Your quote from Ezekial is, by the way, one of my favorites. It is also a Mass reading in the Catholic Church for Daily Mass (Cycle 1) and Sunday Mass (Cycle B). Catholic certainly have a poor reputation in this department. But not all of us live down to that reputation.

It does not matter how good or right your message is. If your method of delivery drives them away, you have lost. Should you convert someone by threatening them with death? Of course not. Coerced conversion cannot be definitions be conversions of the heart. (Moslems, by the way, differ with Christians here. But that is a different matter.) Likewise, when you insult them or annoy them, they stop listening to you then you will never be heard.

Not driving people away has absolutely nothing to do with watering down the faith. Luther is a good example. As an Augustinian (A Catholic Order) monk, many of his complaints and observations were valid and needed attention. However, he was so rude, mean, arrrogant and disrepectful in his interpersonal behavior that the people who needed to hear him the most turned a deaf ear and rejected him as a oaf and bully. (Now there is much more to how the Reformation stated than this, but it certainly was a critical aspect.) That is what I meant.

To walk up to someone and say “unless you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you’re going to Hell.” is a real turn off. It does not matter if it is true. They have stopped listening. All you have succeeded in foing is making it even more difficult for that person to be receptive God’s message.

A Catholic teaching is that no one is brought to the Lord without His grace. No one can receive this grace unless they choose to, even if that choice is indistinct and a non-specific search for Truth.

Spreading God’s word is is not (just) about scolding people. It is also choosing effective forms, venues and topics for commincation. Until people accept the Teachings of Christ, threatening them with Hell will usually have the opposite effect. It is only when they believe that the idea of the pains of Hell begins to have an effect.

(This, by the way, is why I think the idea of “eternal security” makes no sense. The threat of Hell has little impact if you do not believe in it. But if you believe in Jesus, and eternal security, it is no longer an issue. Just commit as much sin as you want, be a serial murderer/rapist/porn star, it does not matter because at the moment you will be with Jesus. Not only am I a former atheist(for 20+ years), I am a former fundamentalist Baptist who spent a year at Bible College.)

Some good remarks. I shall enjoy chatting with you.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

Yes, but Jesus was Lord of the Temple, and had the right, given by the authority of God, to chastise His own servants. He wasn’t just some random stranger coming along from out of nowhere and giving them heck - He was their Lord.

If He had not been their Lord, then He would have had no right to command them anything.

Yes, I have often thought of this… I shall now weigh the various positions on this against scripture…are “we” to do like Jesus did?..as his example? Or “no” because we are not in the position of “authority”.

Yes some good points to ponder.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I have often thought of this… I shall now weigh the various positions on this against scripture…are “we” to do like Jesus did?..as his example? Or “no” because we are not in the position of “authority”.

Yes some good points to ponder.

The Scriptures seem to be very clear that how we become like Jesus in holiness and purity is through obeying His commandments, including the commandments to be humble and to love one another.

Jesus is God, and because of that, He has rights that we will never have, including the right to overturn the moneychangers in the Temple, and to tell the Pharisees that they were hypocrites, and that they were being disobedient to Him in so many different ways.

 

[rpp]

Yes, I have often thought of this… I shall now weigh the various positions on this against scripture…are “we” to do like Jesus did?..as his example? Or “no” because we are not in the position of “authority”.

Yes some good points to ponder.

I think that is an oversimplification of JMcrae position. Yes we should imitate Christ to the best of our ability. However, we must recognize the we labor with a few deficiencies when compared to Him. Here a very short and utterly incomplete list.

• Jesus was sinless. I, at least, am not.
• Jesus was a combination of 100% man and 100% God, a combination that is a mystery. I feel lucky that I generate enough mental enrgy to draw a breath.
• He knew people’s thoughts, motives and hearts. Despite years of trying and endless cold stares by my (now ex-) wife, I, like most husbands, have still not developed this skill.
• Jesus knew the past and the future. I can barely remember what I had for lunch and I do not know what I will have for dinner.
• Jesus knew the Fullness of the Truth. Okay, here I think I can make a bit of progress. However, if what I knew (and was correct about) was black and what I did not know was white, it would be the whitest white you ever saw.
• Jesus was humble and gentle. Another area I can work on. I ask for God’s grace to help me improve. I have so far to go…
• Jesus communicated the Word of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost with the clarity, respect and words His listeners required. Choosing the rights words is a gift I have not been given. Most people are much better than I.
• Jesus was never shy, nor was he bombastic. Well, shyness is a great weakness of mine. I am great in groups when I have someting to do, put me one on one, and I am doomed. (Which might explain why I am still single.)
• Jesus was very good at never making a mistake, healing the sick and raising the dead. I am still working on those, but I am not hopeful.

Can we imitate Christ. Yes and no. Obviously we are not divine, at least I am not. But we can imitate His holiness and humility. But to try to adopt His style of communication would be difficult as most of us cannot read minds.

 

[KarenNC]

IIt does not matter how good or right your message is. If your method of delivery drives them away, you have lost. …Spreading God’s word is is not (just) about scolding people. It is also choosing effective forms, venues and topics for commincation…

Absolutely true. That’s why things like Operation Save America and Hellhouses (both of which we are lucky enough to have around here) actually do more harm than good to their causes by their methods. This is a message I wish more posters on this board overall would take to heart.

I’d like to take an opportunity to expand on this, though this issue is actually much worse on some other threads I am or have been on. If one does not know (or is not willing to learn) at least a reasonable approximation of what the person they are targeting actually does or believes, they will also totally lose their audience and risk be dismissed as “just another ignorant raving fundie” (to be blunt).

Take advantage of the gift of the presence of people from other faiths who are willing to be here and actually try to tell you about their religion * as they perceive and practice it*. If your true desire is to actually convert people for their own good (and I do understand that it is and that it is usually sincere), go beyond the stereotypes you have heard, read or seen.

Be open to learning that other people just might find as much of value in their religion as you do in yours and be able to discuss their beliefs intelligently and with the respect you expect them to give Christianity * before* you try to convert them. You may well not ever convert them, but at least you will have chance to get them to listen to your position rather than dismiss you out of hand.

It also helps if the person here to talk about his or her (non-Christian or non-Catholic) religion is not snippy or dismissive, either, and also willing to listen. Mea culpa, and my apologies, RPP.

 

[rpp]

Absolutely true. That’s why things like Operation Save America and Hellhouses (both of which we are lucky enough to have around here) actually do more harm than good to their causes by their methods. This is a message I wish more posters on this board overall would take to heart.

I’d like to take an opportunity to expand on this, though this issue is actually much worse on some other threads I am or have been on. If one does not know (or is not willing to learn) at least a reasonable approximation of what the person they are targeting actually does or believes, they will also totally lose their audience and risk be dismissed as “just another ignorant raving fundie” (to be blunt).

Take advantage of the gift of the presence of people from other faiths who are willing to be here and actually try to tell you about their religion * as they perceive and practice it*. If your true desire is to actually convert people for their own good (and I do understand that it is and that it is usually sincere), go beyond the stereotypes you have heard, read or seen.

Be open to learning that other people just might find as much of value in their religion as you do in yours and be able to discuss their beliefs intelligently and with the respect you expect them to give Christianity * before* you try to convert them. You may well not ever convert them, but at least you will have chance to get them to listen to your position rather than dismiss you out of hand.

It also helps if the person here to talk about his or her (non-Christian or non-Catholic) religion is not snippy or dismissive, either, and also willing to listen. Mea culpa, and my apologies, RPP.

I have never heard of “Operation Save America”. And what in the world is a “Hellhouse”, some kind of Halloween haunted house thingie?

I second what you say here. How can I effectivly explain the grace of God and Mercy of Jesus to an atheist who does not belive in either God or Sin.

How can one talk to a Neopagan? Frankly I have no idea. St. Augustine in City of God had some very interesting arguments for the Pagans of his day. In that book, he was quick to point out their virtues as well as shortcomings. I don’t know if any of that applies to the Neopagans of today…

Having said I all that, it is also important to recall that we are all human. We all make mistakes. We all have pet peeves and little things that annoy one person mightily and another not at all.

An sometimes we ( - I - ) don’t even follow our ( - my - ) own advice.

Thank you, KarenNC, for your graciousness. My apologies as well.