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Appleby
Guest
Its no doubt fruit for another thread, but the conflicting priestly declarations is also confusing for me. Father Corapi says that the only excuse for missing Mass is if you are ill or if the weather is so terrible the roads are closed. My confessor said that if you are visiting your parents and no one in the household can drive, that is a valid excuse. (I always confess that anyway because it seems to me a little bit too easy.)
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Cathhsmom
Guest
ChristinaM;4879126:
.’ Could this be the difference, although the first priest told her it wouldnt matter in his decision. My mum is so confused about whether to recieve and your views are appreciated.
That does have a lot to do with it. In fact, from what I understand, that is the only way that you can recieve communion if you are married to someone who is still validly married to someone else in the eyes of the church. I know that I have heard this discussed on Catholic Answers radio shows. You might want to search the www.catholic.com website for an article on this as I am sure they have covered it.
As for the IVF, I would be more concerned about the left over embryos if there are any. Part of the reason there is a problem with IVF is that there are leftover embyos which are never implanted and remain frozen or donated for “scientific” research. There are other issues, don’t get me wrong, but this would be one that I would be concerned about because it is bad enough that they did it the once, but if they had more frozen, and now know that it is wrong, what do they do? It is a catch 22.
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vstead
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vstead;4882409:
website for an article on this as I am sure they have covered it.
As for the IVF, I would be more concerned about the left over embryos if there are any. Part of the reason there is a problem with IVF is that there are leftover embyos which are never implanted and remain frozen or donated for “scientific” research. There are other issues, don’t get me wrong, but this would be one that I would be concerned about because it is bad enough that they did it the once, but if they had more frozen, and now know that it is wrong, what do they do? It is a catch 22.
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arcticflower
Guest
I can definitely say it’s hard being Catholic when you can’t get pregnant naturally. The church teaches you to chart your cycles and that that will increase your chances of getting pregnant. I’ve been charting for over 2 years now with no luck (trying for over 4) - (Side note: by the way, I HIGHLY recommend the charting for all women - there is soooo much you can learn about yourself).
It seems within the last year, it has become very difficult to be around pregnant women and I have noticed I’ve been more depressed. I have a younger sister who is pregnant and not married. This has made me question my faith ALOT. Made me ask why she was given this “gift” and is not married. Isn’t premarital sex against church teaching as well? I’ve seen many of those who are given this “gift” but don’t treat it as a gift (i.e. abusive, neglecting, abortion) and again I ask WHY?. I pray every night that God bless me with a child so that I may fufill my marriage vows to “accept children lovingly from God and bring them up according to the law of Christ and His Church” and to be a part of the procreating Catholic community.
I would have never thought that I, 3rd oldest of ten, would be sitting, waiting, wondering why I had not been blessed with the gift of children yet. What had I done wrong? I would have never thought I would have to result to any fertility treatments. I come from a family of ten, my dad came from a family of eleven, my mom came from a family of six, my husband’s dad came from a family of 8… it just didn’t seem like we would have ever had ANY trouble getting pregnant.
I don’t know if it was this thread or another I read that someone had said, “The Lord helps those who help themselves…” but I have taken on that saying and have begun to help myself (and husband ) get pregnant through IUI. My husband and I feel that no matter what or not matter how its conceived, our baby (if successful) will be conceived out of love and will be born into love and will know love for its whole life. And I would think God would look on that more positively than those that were given the “gift” and abused it.
On a final note, in response to the previous couple posts, I have reservations about the “frozen” embryos too, except for those women whose husbands are in the military and only want to make sure that they may still have a chance to produce a soul similar their husbands’ if they happened to die in combat.
It seems within the last year, it has become very difficult to be around pregnant women and I have noticed I’ve been more depressed. I have a younger sister who is pregnant and not married. This has made me question my faith ALOT. Made me ask why she was given this “gift” and is not married. Isn’t premarital sex against church teaching as well? I’ve seen many of those who are given this “gift” but don’t treat it as a gift (i.e. abusive, neglecting, abortion) and again I ask WHY?. I pray every night that God bless me with a child so that I may fufill my marriage vows to “accept children lovingly from God and bring them up according to the law of Christ and His Church” and to be a part of the procreating Catholic community.
I would have never thought that I, 3rd oldest of ten, would be sitting, waiting, wondering why I had not been blessed with the gift of children yet. What had I done wrong? I would have never thought I would have to result to any fertility treatments. I come from a family of ten, my dad came from a family of eleven, my mom came from a family of six, my husband’s dad came from a family of 8… it just didn’t seem like we would have ever had ANY trouble getting pregnant.
I don’t know if it was this thread or another I read that someone had said, “The Lord helps those who help themselves…” but I have taken on that saying and have begun to help myself (and husband ) get pregnant through IUI. My husband and I feel that no matter what or not matter how its conceived, our baby (if successful) will be conceived out of love and will be born into love and will know love for its whole life. And I would think God would look on that more positively than those that were given the “gift” and abused it.
On a final note, in response to the previous couple posts, I have reservations about the “frozen” embryos too, except for those women whose husbands are in the military and only want to make sure that they may still have a chance to produce a soul similar their husbands’ if they happened to die in combat.
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Jennifer_J
Guest
Here are some guidelines from the USCCB about Assisted Reproductive Technologies
usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm
usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm
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GraceDK
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Okay… so, I guess what you dont like is that the priest seemed to be okay with the IVF procedure, and I understand that. I also think priests have an obligation to dicourage sins and adress these serious issues from every pulpit.
However,
I am sure you dont mean that the child should be blamed for the blunder of the parents and thus deprived of salvation?
Or would you also say that all the babies that were conceived prior to the wedding night should be cut of from baptism? That would be quite a few people that never got a chance of entering the covenant-people…
I think you see the absurdity here and also that you are not speaking from the Spirit of Compassion who is in Christ…
Grace
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vstead
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I was misunderstood here. The couple in question are my brother and his wife. I watched for 15 years whilst they waited and waited for what was the most precious thing in the world to them, a child. The newspapers full of men and women on drugs bringing 5 and 6 children into the world only for them to end up in foster care. I wasnt aware of the church teaching on the subject and supported them throughout. My questioning starrted when after mentioning it on a question and answer site of Fr Corapi was told that it was a terrible thing and when i put my own view (which is in support of what people decide for the right reasons, i was bluntly told that myself and too many people think we c an do what we like because of people like me and others who will sympathise after the fact and quote Gods great mercy. it was reminisent of Karl Malden in the pulpit in Polyanna.
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CRZ
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Ditto
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hamburglar
Guest
Just jumping in, but it may be possible that there is an additional “layer” of sin here. In IVF, more eggs are fertilized than needed. Sometimes, many embryos are implanted into the uterus and once they get going for a bit, all but one is aborted. Usually, not all the embryos are implanted. They freeze some and discard them as “trash.”
If any discarded or aborted, the couple may have formally cooperated in the grave evil of abortion. This is something they need to talk about with their confessors and perhaps a canon lawyer.
If any discarded or aborted, the couple may have formally cooperated in the grave evil of abortion. This is something they need to talk about with their confessors and perhaps a canon lawyer.
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vstead
Guest
You have outlined exactly what i was told as the reason for this procedure being so wrong, the unwanted aborted children. I later learned couples who do this without the full knowledge are not responsible. And the child born of ivf is absolutely one of Gods children and not as previously told, manmade.
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RitaM
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Believe it or not, some priests do not even know that IVF is a sin. 
I almost became involved as a surrogate mother and confessed to the priest after changing my mind, and he thought I was confessing because I backed out of the plan! I don’t know how our clergy can be so ignorant, unless they’re just dissenting, but it happens.
I almost became involved as a surrogate mother and confessed to the priest after changing my mind, and he thought I was confessing because I backed out of the plan! I don’t know how our clergy can be so ignorant, unless they’re just dissenting, but it happens.
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PaulinVA
Guest
I have a question, and I hope I don’t step on toes.
Can the Church baptize a child, when the parents are not repentant as to how the child was conceived?
That is, if the parents maintain that they love their child, and they would do the IVF again, does that preclude them from having the child baptized? Would they, not the child, not be properly disposed to present their child for baptism?
Can the Church baptize a child, when the parents are not repentant as to how the child was conceived?
That is, if the parents maintain that they love their child, and they would do the IVF again, does that preclude them from having the child baptized? Would they, not the child, not be properly disposed to present their child for baptism?
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vstead
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I started this thread some time ago and asked that question. Most of the replys indicated that the child born of ivf treatment most definately should be welcomed by the priest for baptism. You make a good point about the possibility of a couple knowingly going down that route again, but again from the many posts on this subject, most said that they believe the church would never blame the child.
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vstead
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Oh my. Your so right. And some people had trouble believing me when i told them that two priests i know had absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of ivf and the churches stance on it. I find it unbelieveable that my own parish priest guided my brother and his wife through the process and when my mum discreetly told him (the priest) that she had concerns about what my brother was doing as she had read about the churches abhorance of it, he told her that as far as he knew, there was nothing wrong with it. After saying all that, priests are so weighed down with work, its understandable that some things are going to slip under the radar.Believe it or not, some priests do not even know that IVF is a sin.
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sharmin
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Oh my gosh! Are you serious?
I am quite certain ALL children have souls.
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Karenanna
Guest
Here is an article on: Some moral and ethical issues concerning IVF techniques
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vstead
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I must have been too caught up in the existing thread to fully take in your reply. Reading it a second time, i wanted to say that it really touched me and how brave you sound in dealing with this matter. I fully understand how hard it is to be ‘the unlucky ones’ as i once heard it put. I come from a small city in England, an even smaller town and i know 4 people who successfully gave birth through ivf,( only 1 couple, my brother and his wife, are catholic). You have this added thing of your beliefs to worry about. I will pray for you.
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kage_ar
Guest
Of course, as Christians we do not follow the advice of the secular world. The Lord teaches the exact opposite through his Church and Scripture where we are told to trust in God:
Job 1:
21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return; the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” 22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.
Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own insight. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. 7 Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil. 8 It will be healing to your flesh and refreshment* to your bones. 9 Honor the LORD with your substance and with the first fruits of all your produce; 10 then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine. 11* My son, do not despise the LORD’s discipline or be weary of his reproof, 12 for the LORD reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights.**
Luke, chapter 12:
22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his span of life? * 26 If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? 27* Consider the lilies, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; * yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass which is alive in the field today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O men of little faith! 29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be of anxious mind. 30* For all the nations of the world seek these things; and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, seek his * kingdom, and these things shall be yours as well.**
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