IYO: Are Catholic weak on fellowship?

[MooCowSteph]

How do you know for sure the spiritual state of anyone much less the spiritual state of large groups of people?

I certainly can’t judge the spiritual state of everyone. But if we look at at a wide variety of factors - people leaving Mass early, rarely availing themselves of confession, never wanting to volunteer, having 20 people in our current bible study (half of whom are from other parishes) when we have thousands of members, having 5 families show up for Family Fun Sundays out of a packed church, knowing next to nothing about their faith and not being interested in learning more. In Evangelization, one of the Lectio studies on FORMED, Mary Healy mentioned a Pew Research poll that said Catholics knew less about the bible than even atheists. According to this link 63% of Catholics never participate in scripture or religious education groups. Compare that to 44% of evangelicals who say they go at least once a week. Getting Catholics to WANT to learn about their faith, to take it seriously, to attend things outside of Mass, to not just use church as a means to get their kids through the sacraments, this is a struggle for the ages.

pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/catholic/

 

[Rosebud77]

I certainly can’t judge the spiritual state of everyone. But if we look at at a wide variety of factors - people leaving Mass early, rarely availing themselves of confession, never wanting to volunteer, having 20 people in our current bible study (half of whom are from other parishes) when we have thousands of members, having 5 families show up for Family Fun Sundays out of a packed church, knowing next to nothing about their faith and not being interested in learning more. In Evangelization, one of the Lectio studies on FORMED, Mary Healy mentioned a Pew Research poll that said Catholics knew less about the bible than even atheists. According to this link 63% of Catholics never participate in scripture or religious education groups. Compare that to 44% of evangelicals who say they go at least once a week. Getting Catholics to WANT to learn about their faith, to take it seriously, to attend things outside of Mass, to not just use church as a means to get their kids through the sacraments, this is a struggle for the ages.

pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/catholic/

Small point.
You are assuming that all Catholics need the classes etc that you list.
Are not well formed in their faith and are not living a deeply fulfilled and faith-filled family and social life?
Are not “taking their faith seriously”?

 

[Michael68]

I certainly can’t judge the spiritual state of everyone. But if we look at at a wide variety of factors - people leaving Mass early, rarely availing themselves of confession, never wanting to volunteer, having 20 people in our current bible study (half of whom are from other parishes) when we have thousands of members, having 5 families show up for Family Fun Sundays out of a packed church, knowing next to nothing about their faith and not being interested in learning more. In Evangelization, one of the Lectio studies on FORMED, Mary Healy mentioned a Pew Research poll that said Catholics knew less about the bible than even atheists. According to this link 63% of Catholics never participate in scripture or religious education groups. Compare that to 44% of evangelicals who say they go at least once a week. Getting Catholics to WANT to learn about their faith, to take it seriously, to attend things outside of Mass, to not just use church as a means to get their kids through the sacraments, this is a struggle for the ages.

pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/catholic/

Actually Catholics know more about the bible than they realize. If you attend Mass once a week and that’s all you do, you will have read or heard almost the entire bible in 3 yrs. That’s an accomplishment and even these once a week readings can change lives.

 

[Rosebud77]

How do you know for sure the spiritual state of anyone much less the spiritual state of large groups of people?

Posted before I saw this and totally agree…

 

[Michael68]

Small point.
You are assuming that all Catholics need the classes etc that you list.
Are not well formed in their faith and are not living a deeply fulfilled and faith-filled family and social life?
Are not “taking their faith seriously”?

I have to agree! I don’t always go to all of the education classes because I’ve already taken them or learned the material from another Catholic approved source.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Small point.
You are assuming that all Catholics need the classes etc that you list.
Are not well formed in their faith and are not living a deeply fulfilled and faith-filled family and social life?
Are not “taking their faith seriously”?

How many Catholics do you know who are truly well formed in their faith? Do you truly not recognize the massive failure that has been catechesis in this country for the last 60 years? Again, according to Mary Healy, half of all people who join the church via RCIA have stopped going to Mass after one year.

At my local, popular non-denom church, over 60% of its members are former Catholics. Were those people taking their faith seriously?

 

[MooCowSteph]

Actually Catholics know more about the bible than they realize. If you attend Mass once a week and that’s all you do, you will have read or heard almost the entire bible in 3 yrs. That’s an accomplishment and even these once a week readings can change lives.

You would actually need to attend daily Mass as well, in order to hear much of the bible in three years.

 

[Michael68]

You would actually need to attend daily Mass as well, in order to hear much of the bible in three years.

Yes, that’s why I said almost. It is still a great deal more than just hearing a preacher’s favorite verses

 

[MooCowSteph]

I have to agree! I don’t always go to all of the education classes because I’ve already taken them or learned the material from another Catholic approved source.

And that’s totally fine. But I would think we could probably agree that the vast majority of Catholics aren’t so incredibly well formed in their theology that they wouldn’t learn anything from a church-based scripture study. If you’re familiar with Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic, you would see in there that only 7% of Catholics today are highly engaged.

 

[Michael68]

And that’s totally fine. But I would think we could probably agree that the vast majority of Catholics aren’t so incredibly well formed in their theology that they wouldn’t learn anything from a church-based scripture study. If you’re familiar with Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic, you would see in there that only 7% of Catholics today are highly engaged.

That is sad! I know non Catholic Christians who don’t go to church at all.

 

[MooCowSteph]

That is sad! I know non Catholic Christians who don’t go to church at all.

Of course we are going to have Catholics and non-Catholics who never attend anything, and are purely culturally Christian. But it does seem, based both on statistics and anecdotal information, to be more of a Catholic problem than a Protestant one. I wonder if it’s partly the “system design”. We, as Catholics, have to attend church for many years in order to have our kids receive the Sacraments. We have the Sunday obligation. So I do wonder if those things have helped create cultural Catholics who have no desire to have fellowship with their pewmates, and are just there to get their card punched, so to speak. It seems that, in a lot of protestant denominations, you would just maybe be more likely to stop going altogether if you weren’t really serious about your faith, which means the remaining attendees are the ones who do actually care, who have a real relationship with Jesus.

 

[Peter_J]

This is a multi-faceted issue. Many reasons have already been touched on. Larger parishes are one reason (I’m on the eat coast where there’s a Catholic church every 3-4 miles, with 2,000-4,000 people in attendance each weekend). We don’t always go to the same Mass or even the same church. The structures of the church don’t often lend themselves to fellowship. I would love to see larger vestibules with lots of room to stand around and chat after Mass. Many people are not passionate about their faith, so they’re not coming back during the week for bible studies, youth group, volunteering, etc., and really that is how you meet your fellow parishioners.

There is also a different focus in protestant churches. Fellowship generally is the focus. You go to church to worship in community, to praise Jesus in catchy songs, and to hear a great, entertaining sermon. We go to church to worship and receive Jesus in the Eucharist. It’s more individual.

Also, I would propose that the majority of people in a non-denom church on a given Sunday are “true believers”, they’re living a prayerful life, with Jesus at the center. A lot of Catholics who go to church every week seem to just be going through the motions; they’re cultural Catholics.

As a New Englander, I’m very much accustomed to having 3-4 Catholic Churches per mile.

But concerning your statement that fellowship generally is the focus in Protestant churches, I’ve heard claims like that too; but I’m not so sure that they are true. (When you think about it, what’s to stop someone from saying “Fellowship generally is the focus in *Catholic *churches”?)

 

[Rosebud77]

How many Catholics do you know who are truly well formed in their faith? Do you truly not recognize the massive failure that has been catechesis in this country for the last 60 years? Again, according to Mary Healy, half of all people who join the church via RCIA have stopped going to Mass after one year.

At my local, popular non-denom church, over 60% of its members are former Catholics. Were those people taking their faith seriously?

I would not presume to be so judgemental as to ask, frankly

so in your view no one can lead a deeply prayer filled and holy life? and on rich in lovingkindess and goodness? Unless they are attending classes?

Drop out rate does not surprise.Maybe we need to look at how we are to folk …

 

[MooCowSteph]

I would not presume to be so judgemental as to ask, frankly

so in your view no one can lead a deeply prayer filled and holy life? and on rich in lovingkindess and goodness? Unless they are attending classes?

Drop out rate does not surprise.Maybe we need to look at how we are to folk …

You took one of the reasons I mentioned and choose act as though that was my only benchmark. Maybe your parish or part of the country is quite different than mine, and you’re a member of a vibrant parish where everyone is active participants in Mass, with vibrant personal faith filled lives. I wish I saw more of that where I live. I tend to see it as a pretty major problem where I live, and my parish in particular. If most of the people in the pews had vibrant prayer lives and a firm grasp of their faith, we wouldn’t see so many leaving the church to join Protestant churches or stop going altogether. They wouldn’t be such easy pickings for Mormon missionaries. They would be able to answer their Protestant brethren when asked to defend their beliefs.

 

[Rosebud77]

You took one of the reasons I mentioned and choose act as though that was my only benchmark. Maybe your parish or part of the country is quite different than mine, and you’re a member of a vibrant parish where everyone is active participants in Mass, with vibrant personal faith filled lives. I wish I saw more of that where I live. I tend to see it as a pretty major problem where I live, and my parish in particular. If most of the people in the pews had vibrant prayer lives and a firm grasp of their faith, we wouldn’t see so many leaving the church to join Protestant churches or stop going altogether. They wouldn’t be such easy pickings for Mormon missionaries. They would be able to answer their Protestant brethren when asked to defend their beliefs.

No. To your idea re me!

I am all but housebound and with mo immune system almost never get to mass in person. ,

My point is that there is no need for what you call vibrancy in a parish ie happy clappy meetings etc. You see not into each soul and life

My faith is not confined to a church. It is a part of my living and breathing, in all do
and am and for many that is so.

Why would any one be called on to defend their beliefs by other Christians? In my more active days that never happened.

Only twice has that happened of late and on both those occsions I have simply spken of the love of Jesus in His words and that has brought peace

For that is all that matters and all that we have,
People these days are fully occupied with work then with family… and living those roles in faith…
But then I believe in faith rather than in religion as you see it… in peace rather than disputation, in love for all rather than opposing others,

 

[Peter_J]

My point is that there is no need for what **you call **vibrancy in a parish ie happy clappy meetings etc.

I don’t like to butt in, but could you clarify who it is that calls happy clappy meetings etc. “vibrancy in a parish”?

 

[Rosebud77]

I don’t like to butt in, but could you clarify who it is that calls happy clappy meetings etc. “vibrancy in a parish”?

Others have used the phrase to describe this. …

 

[rcwitness]

Depends on individuals. Some Catholics will go all day long sharing the faith and relating their walk and talking about issues as deep as they are able. I have found some Protestants to avoid these things unless engaged, and then when pressed about in-depth matters, they clam up and do not care to discuss matters that are out of their “comfort zone”.

There are good aspects of the True faith that many Protestants place an emphasis on, like personal accountability and conviction to living in righteousness. This does result in a converted heart and a desire to fellowship with one another.

Fellowship is a very important devotion!

 

[Sarcelle]

Of course we are going to have Catholics and non-Catholics who never attend anything, and are purely culturally Christian. But it does seem, based both on statistics and anecdotal information, to be more of a Catholic problem than a Protestant one. I wonder if it’s partly the “system design”. We, as Catholics, have to attend church for many years in order to have our kids receive the Sacraments. We have the Sunday obligation. So I do wonder if those things have helped create cultural Catholics who have no desire to have fellowship with their pewmates, and are just there to get their card punched, so to speak. It seems that, in a lot of protestant denominations, you would just maybe be more likely to stop going altogether if you weren’t really serious about your faith, which means the remaining attendees are the ones who do actually care, who have a real relationship with Jesus.

I see your point and I disagree.

What’s stopping cultural Catholics from avoiding mass altogether?

Most cultural Catholics I know never went to mass. If they don’t believe in the basic de fide doctrines taught by the Chuch, chances are they won’t believe in the Sunday obligation.

I have moved several times all over the country and have attended different parishes. Those Catholics who stay and attend masses faithfully have impressed and inspired me with their faith and the knowledge of their faith. Now they may not have the degree of sociability than their Protestant brethren but this sociability should not be used as a yardstick by which to measure faithfulness.

 

[MichaelP3]

In Your Opinion, are Catholics weak on fellowship?

Guess it depends how one defines fellowship. Apart from that, every Catholic mass I ever attended I was invited for coffee/tea afterwards. I won’t say I think so.