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mercygate
Guest
Take these to their own threads. This one is about Jack Chick.
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HashemEchad
Guest
While I agree with you, please note that another poster asked me a question, and I simply responded.
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mercygate
Guest
Right. But one might respond: I’ll start another thread.
While I agree with you, please note that another poster asked me a question, and I simply responded.
(forgive me: I moderate another forum and tend to carry the principles to places where my authority does not extend.)
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qui_est_ce
Guest
While I agree off topic, it was brought up by another poster, and since it is here, for anyone lurking, I’d like to briefly clarify.
Devotions to Mary, in keeping with Jewish view of Bible and tradition. The “queen mother” sits at the right hand of the king.
*1 Kings 15:13
He even deposed his grandmother Maacah from her position as queen mother, because she had made a repulsive Asherah pole. Asa cut the pole down and burned it in the Kidron Valley.
*
2 Kings 10:13
he met some relatives of Ahaziah king of Judah and asked, “Who are you?” They said, "We are relatives of Ahaziah, and we have come down to greet the families of the king and of the queen mother."
*Matthew 12:42
The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.
Luke 11:31
The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here*(Ref Queen of Sheba)
however mediatrix and redemtrix not on the same level as Jesus, but rather becaus her “yes” allowed Jesus to come into the world. The concept of Co-redemptrix refers to an indirect or unequal but important participation by the Blessed Virgin Mary in redemption. She gave free consent to give life to the redeemer, to share his life, to suffer with him under the cross and to sacrifice him for the sake of the redemption of humankind. (Wiki)
The concept of mediatrix has two meanings: Mary gave birth to the redeemer, who is the fountain of all grace. Therefore she participated in the mediating of grace. A second opinion states that Mary, assumed into heaven, participates in the mediating of divine graces of her son. Popes such as Leo XIII through Pius XII have traditionally supported both interpretations. (Wiki)
Saint Thomas Aquinas argued that only Christ can be the perfect mediator between God and mankind. But this does not hinder the fact that others are called mediator because they assist and prepare the union between God and man.[1] There is no question among Catholic theologians, that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and the human race (Timothy 2,5).
But this does not exclude a participation of the Virgin Mary in the mediator mystery of her son. Early indications of this notions go back to a prayer attributed to Ephrem the Syrian (306-373):Wiki
Can you give a Jewish tradition that would explain Mary’s consecration at the Temple?
This is found in the NT, though.
*Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.*
You should become an apologist! The more I learn about the Jewish faith, the better I am able to understand the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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HashemEchad
Guest
If I respond to the post above mine, I will be accused of taking this thread off-topic, and although I am more than able to reply, I cannot for this reason.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Let’s ask Mercy. I would really like to hear about Jewish custom of dedicating women, engagement, etc. I don’t understand the part about Joseph “divorcing” Mary when she was pregnant being a good thing. I think they weren’t even married yet.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
May I suggest that the discussion about Mary be given its own thread? Let’s stick to the topic of Jack Chick here, please!
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
Is it possible Old Scholar may be Jack himself? 
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adstrinity
Guest
And if a new thread is started, would you please be so good as to link to it in this thread?
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mozart-250
Guest
I know I’m going to get stoned for saying this but…
In fact I would propose “eye meet log” on this one.
- thinking every other Christian except your type of Christianity is condemned to spend eternity in hell.
- and verbalizing this belief to other Christians that are not your type.in a very boorish, tasteless, and tacky manner
- misrepresenting these other Christians through either (1) almost willful ignorance or (2) blatant falsehood
In fact I would propose “eye meet log” on this one.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Okay, I started a new thread. I would be interested in your (name removed by moderator)ut since you are Orthodox and seem to know a much about Jewish tradtions.
Mary
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inthecloud
Guest
Is not the first time I have read that.
BTW easy on Hashem, she is not a Catholic Apologist but a Jewish one. And she is making the point that the Jews were not a SOLA TORAH religion. That many of the things hinted in the Torah or in the Gospels are fully taught in oral tradition.
I have no problem with that.
I always have seen the defend only from Scripture thing as playing the Protestants game.
Going back to Jack Chick, Mozart, the CC does have her Chauvinists but they do not hand trackts by the dozen or sell their bigotry in the Megachurch library.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
**Up to a point one can 
**
**For instance, one can provide alternative explanations; and, one give information he does not **
**For instance, Seb in the “Egyptian Trinity” is a little less persuasive when it is pointed out that he is called Geb, not Seb. Explanation ? The hieroglyph for G is almost impossible to tell from that for S: both are represented by a picture of a pintail duck. (One would of course need to give very full references) The I in IHS can stand for Seb, only if Seb is called Seb, & if I for Isis & H for Horus were grouped with Seb in particular, & not with other gods as well. **
And: gods were grouped in trinities; but they were also grouped in pairs, fours, fives, & quite a few other numbers. There is not one “Egyptian Trinity” - there are several
**Direct refutation is often impossible - & one cannot prove that the Host is not possessed. But neither can Chick prove he is not possessed. Assertions that one cannot deny, can sometimes be turned around in that way - & since they are unfair, they are best forgotten. **
**As for Semiramis being a goddess - a non-existent being cannot be anything. S. is a literary creation: a fusion of the goddess Ishtar, the Assyrian queen Sammuramat, & probably a few others. **
**The problem with a lot of Chick’s assertions is that they are not his - they are taken, in simplified form, from a book written in the 1850s, which “proves” that the deified Semiramis was worshipped throughout the world & is the reality behind the Catholic veneration of the BVM, by the very simple expedient of equating every major goddess - Juno, Isis, Parvati, Ishtar, Kali, Kuan Yin, Aphrodite, Mylitta & any others known of at that time - with Semiramis. The trouble with the tracts is that only the result - this non-existent universal worship of S. - is mentioned in them: the bad reasoning, bad history, & bad philology used to do all that equating, is not mentioned. **
**So one can do a good deal to reply.
- though all of that would have to be filled out, for a proper refutation of even that tract. ****I think not - ISTM he’s just ignorant; & from some POVs, his ideas are not unreasonable. One does not have to be paranoid to be deeply troubled by a great many items in Catholicism. When ignorance of certain things, knowledge of others, certain personal experiences, & a certain way of reading the Bible come together in a particular configuration, one gets those ideas in that particular life. **
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mozart-250
Guest
Yup…I thought of that…the only logical difference then is scope.
I’m not sure that scope is that important, in God’s eyes anyway.
Actually, I suspect Megachurches are not the ones that use Chick tracts (as a general rule anyway…there may be exceptions of course). Megachurches are often into “Seeker-Sensitive” stuff (which Chick tracts definitely are not).
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
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mercygate
Guest
Have you experienced Catholics reaching out to non-Catholics the way non-Catholics who buy the Chick theme do? Have you seen Catholics handing out the equivalent of “Death Cookie” tracts or “Y’all are goin’ t’Hell!” tracts?
I deplore some of the street-bully responses Catholics give here, and even more the threads that begin: “Protestants: How can you believe . . .”
But there IS a difference between taking it to the streets and responding (even if not patiently) when someone makes an attack.
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Protestant101
Guest
Quite true; Some of the threads are pretty wild. But it is sad to see such things as the Chick tracts, for they do not reflect any kind of Christianity. It is easy even for Protestants to see how off-base they are.
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mercygate
Guest
Yes. It is, and the mainline Protestant publication Christianity Today, published a thorough repudiation of both his content and his methods some years ago.
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mozart-250
Guest
Well I have been told here I am going to hell here.
The poster that informed me of my eternal destination has since (presumably) been moderated out.But you are right, I have not seen any formal literature from Catholicism to that effect.
That is because the 2% of the Catholics that believe that do not really have a forum to organize and aggressively evangelize us out of our eternally damned state outside of anonymous posts over the internet and the like. While of course the 2% of the Protestants that believe that way can organize and make noise far out of proportion to their actual numbers and influence.
One of the disadvantages of “no central authority” I suppose.
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mercygate
Guest
You have a point there. We DO have a system (in which our friendly moderators participate when banning fire-brand anti-Protestant Catholics from the Forums) whereby some kind of standard can be upheld.Well I have been told here I am going to hell here.
But you are right, I have not seen any formal literature from Catholicism to that effect.
That is because the 2% of the Catholics that believe that do not really have a forum to organize and aggressively evangelize us out of our eternally damned state outside of anonymous posts over the internet and the like. While of course the 2% of the Protestants that believe that way can organize and make noise far out of proportion to their actual numbers and influence.
One of the disadvantages of “no central authority” I suppose.
BTW, I have reported several rabid-ugly posters to the mods – by far the majority have been Catholic.
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