T
thephilosopher6
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Neither were with him during his ministry.
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J
jcrichton
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Which is a normal exchange any given day; but to suggest that they would hold grievances over such exchanges to the point of rejecting/denying material assistance… isn’t that blowing things out of proportion?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
A
Agathon
Guest
These weren’t just grievances: these were questions that plagued the early Church since it began on 30 A.D.: Should they remain a sect of Judaism or branch out as something totally different? James’s vision was with the former; Paul’s was with the latter. We all know how that ended up.Which is a normal exchange any given day; but to suggest that they would hold grievances over such exchanges to the point of rejecting/denying material assistance… isn’t that blowing things out of proportion?
A
Agathon
Guest
If you’re in the James Jesus’ bro was James son of Alphaeus camp, James was in Jesus’s ministry. If you’re a person like me who believes James wasn’t an apostle but played a role in Jesus’s ministry as one of the 72, James was involved in Jesus’s ministry.
T
thephilosopher6
Guest
I’m with you, it doesn’t seem likely James the Lesser is the same as James the Just.
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J
jcrichton
Guest
Now you are reading sectarianism into it.
There was not confusion as to what they needed to do.
The confusion was, as it is today, how to Shepherd the Fold.
Those who followed Judaism knew very well that Jesus did not hold Judaism as the norm; decades before the razing of the Temple (and with it the Judaic religious culture) Jesus Revealed to the Samaritan woman that:
Maran atha!
Angel
There was not confusion as to what they needed to do.
The confusion was, as it is today, how to Shepherd the Fold.
Those who followed Judaism knew very well that Jesus did not hold Judaism as the norm; decades before the razing of the Temple (and with it the Judaic religious culture) Jesus Revealed to the Samaritan woman that:
Clearly, Jesus and the Apostles did not subscribe to Judaism as the form of Worship (religion):21 …Woman, believe me, that the hour cometh, when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, adore the Father. 22 You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know; for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. 24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. (St. John 4)
Nonetheless, Jesus warned that it would not be easy for His Disciples to give up what they inherited from Judaism as they would have to take on the new Revealed Way of the New Covenant:15 And he said to them: You are they who justify yourselves before men, but God knoweth your hearts; for that which is high to men, is an abomination before God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John; from that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every one useth violence towards it. (St. Luke 16)
So yes, confusion about how to proceed; but no, no confusion about who they were and Who was Leading them: Jesus and the Holy Spirit!12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14 He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you. (St. John 16)
Maran atha!
Angel
A
Agathon
Guest
It was more than just confusion: it was a disagreement between two pillars of the faith which influenced the spread of Christianity and is essential to why we are Christians today.
Acts 21
17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.
We can see from this passage that James thought that the relationship between the Church and the Temple was very important and that they needed to maintain the status quo.
Acts 21
17 When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.
We can see from this passage that James thought that the relationship between the Church and the Temple was very important and that they needed to maintain the status quo.
J
jcrichton
Guest
…confusion…
…as the Body of Christ Unfolded and grew it became clear to the Jews that Judaism was in danger and they sought out those of the Way to extinguish them… in their part, Jesus’ Disciples thought that they must Serve God, in Christ, through the Judaic practices and formats… soon they were expulsed from the Temple and the synagogues and the Church began to meet in the members houses, then in various other places, and even underground (wilderness and catacombs); the dream of all of Israel converting to Christianity soo faded and new customs and practices took shape… eventually, the persecution of Christians lead to the spread of Jesus’ Gospel throughout the world.
Maran atha!
Angel
…as the Body of Christ Unfolded and grew it became clear to the Jews that Judaism was in danger and they sought out those of the Way to extinguish them… in their part, Jesus’ Disciples thought that they must Serve God, in Christ, through the Judaic practices and formats… soon they were expulsed from the Temple and the synagogues and the Church began to meet in the members houses, then in various other places, and even underground (wilderness and catacombs); the dream of all of Israel converting to Christianity soo faded and new customs and practices took shape… eventually, the persecution of Christians lead to the spread of Jesus’ Gospel throughout the world.
Maran atha!
Angel
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