James, Brother of Jesus?

[ppasa316]

Silly person. I would not have asked if I had made the quote you ascribed to me.

Dokimas its really crazy on this thread. Good luck

 

[ppasa316]

Show some of that Catholic class tobbie and you are going to report me.

Hey tobbie i will be right back and we can finish what we started. I have to go to my church and help with something. Don’t forget about the invite. We can get you down here if you want

 

[tobinatorstark]

Show some of that Catholic class tobbie and you are going to report me.

I would really like to know your definition of charity. You certainly lack it along with humility. Taunting actions get you nowhere. Your lack of the three theological virtues is enough to reason why any person should feel the need to report you at will. Your lack of the three theological virtues is enough to get you into trouble with the wrong people.

 

[Dokimas]

It’s sad how much angry anti Catholic are. I hope he gets banned

The only angry anti-Catholics I know are ex-Catholics, sad to say.​

A few of you respond to some non-Catholics with what seems to be anger and/or mocking. If one were to look for 1 Corinthian 13 love in those posts, I’m not sure it can be found.​

BTW, non-Catholic Christians are to love our Catholic friends. Some of your posts don’t show the love of Jesus but a mocking spirit. Take care to owe no one anything but to love them, as Paul taught the Romans.​

Both sides can and does let arogance get in the way. Shame on us.

 

[ppasa316]

The only angry anti-Catholics I know are ex-Catholics, sad to say.​

A few of you respond to some non-Catholics with what seems to be anger and/or mocking. If one were to look for 1 Corinthian 13 love in those posts, I’m not sure it can be found.​

BTW, non-Catholic Christians are to love our Catholic friends. Some of your posts don’t show the love of Jesus but a mocking spirit. Take care to owe no one anything but to love them, as Paul taught the Romans.​

Both sides can and does let arogance get in the way. Shame on us.

Amen too that brother

 

[ppasa316]

I would really like to know your definition of charity. You certainly lack it along with humility. Taunting actions get you nowhere. Your lack of the three theological virtues is enough to reason why any person should feel the need to report you at will. Your lack of the three theological virtues is enough to get you into trouble with the wrong people.

Show some Love Tobbie. I don’t taunt anyone but you curse and hate people from the aclu and acorn. You said they should be burned at the stake and beheaded. Now it sounds like you are telling me i might be in trouble with the wrong people. Cmon Tobbie I Love you brother.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Show some Love Tobbie. I don’t taunt anyone but you curse and hate people from the aclu and acorn. You said they should be burned at the stake and beheaded. Now it sounds like you are telling me i might be in trouble with the wrong people. Cmon Tobbie I Love you brother.

I don’t hate people at all. I love sinner, hate the sin.

 

[ppasa316]

I don’t hate people at all. I love sinner, hate the sin.

Now with that said where were we? Oh im back by the way. The invite still stands

 

[elvisman]

I am not angry lol. You showed yourself foolish again by calling me a liar and a little punk. Is that what the catholic church teaches. Now who is the angry one. lol Again i offer my services to you because you really are so off base and can’t answer my questions after i gave you plenty of scripture to ponder

I never called you aliar OR a punk.
Where is THIS coming from??

All I said is that you’ve not been able to answer my questions- ummm . . . and you haven’t.**

 

[elvisman]

Silly person. I would not have asked if I had made the quote you ascribed to me.

Sorry - but your name is on it.
If you didn’t write it - ask the Mods to have it removed.

 

[ppasa316]

I never called you aliar OR a punk.
Where is THIS coming from??

All I said is that you’ve not been able to answer my questions- ummm . . . and you* haven’t*.

Sorry that was meant for tobinator or whatever his name is and yes i provided scripture to both of ya’ll.

 

[Dokimas]

Sorry - but your name is on it.
**If you didn’t **write it - ask the Mods to have it removed.

Do yourself a favor and look back at Posts # 127 & 128. Supposedly you quoted me in 128 but it was not I but the writer of 127 who made the statement.

 

[Jimmy_B]

One of the sons of Joseph by his first marriage.

Hello Hesychiou,
What do you base this comment on. Where is there any evidence of this?

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Hesychiou,
What do you base this comment on. Where is there any evidence of this?

There is no evidence. Like most non-Biblical information it is the traditional Christian belief.

This is recounted in the Proto-Evangelion (proto-Gospel) of James, a legend committed to writing in the second century. As I stated earlier in this thread it is an apocryphal writing. However it reflects the earliest understanding of the church, and which is still the commonly held position of the Orthodox Christians, like myself.

**Among the extracanonical traditions recorded in this protevangelion are the introduction of Joseph as a widower with several children who is Mary’s guardian, the birth of Jesus in a cave, and the martyrdom of John the Baptist’s father Zechariah during the slaughter of the infants. **
OrthoWiki

The western theory that the ‘brothers’ of Christ were cousins seems to be of a later time.

I will quote the relevant passages of the proto-Evangelion, translation by Alexander Walker circa 1886AD. From Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 8.
Courtesy of New Advent and re-edited by Kevin Knight.

**
****4. …an angel of the Lord stood by, saying: Anna, Anna, the Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive, and shall bring forth; and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world. And Anna said: As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God; and it shall minister to Him in holy things all the days of its life. 1 Samuel 1:11 And, behold, two angels came, saying to her: Behold, Joachim your husband is coming with his flocks. For an angel of the Lord went down to him, saying: Joachim, Joachim, the Lord God has heard your prayer. Go down hence; for, behold, your wife Anna shall conceive. And Joachim went down and called his shepherds, saying: Bring me hither ten she-lambs without spot or blemish, and they shall be for the Lord my God; and bring me twelve tender calves, and they shall be for the priests and the elders; and a hundred goats for all the people. And, behold, Joachim came with his flocks; and Anna stood by the gate, and saw Joachim coming, and she ran and hung upon his neck, saying: Now I know that the Lord God has blessed me exceedingly; for, behold the widow no longer a widow, and I the childless shall conceive. And Joachim rested the first day in his house.

** **5. And on the following day he brought his offerings, saying in himself: If the Lord God **has been rendered gracious to me, the **plate on the priest’s forehead will make it manifest to me. And Joachim brought his offerings, and observed attentively the priest’s plate when he went up to the altar of the Lord, and he saw no sin in himself. And Joachim said: Now I know that the Lord has been gracious unto me, and has remitted all my sins. And he went down from the temple of the Lord justified, and departed to his own house. And her months were fulfilled, and in the ninth month Anna ** brought forth. And she said to the midwife: What have I brought forth? And she said: A girl. And said Anna: My soul has been magnified this day. And she laid her down. And the days having been fulfilled, Anna was purified, and gave the breast to the child, and called her name Mary.

6. And the child grew strong day by day; and when she was six months old, her mother set her on the ground to try whether she could stand, and she walked seven steps and came into her bosom; and she snatched her up, saying: As theLord my God lives, you shall not walk on this earth until I bring you into the temple of the Lord. And she made a sanctuary in her bed-chamber, and allowed nothing common or unclean to pass through her. And she called the undefiled daughters of the Hebrews, and they led her astray. And when she was a year old, Joachim made a great feast, and invited the priests, and the scribes, and the elders, and all the people of Israel. And Joachim brought the child to the priests; and they blessed her, saying: O God of our fathers, bless this child, and give her an everlasting name to be named in all generations. And all the people said: So be it, so be it, amen. And he brought her to the chief priests; and they blessed her, saying: O God most high, look upon this child, and bless her with the utmost blessing, which shall be for ever. And her mother snatched her up, and took her into the sanctuary of her bed-chamber, and gave her the breast. And Anna made a song to the Lord God, saying: I will sing a song to the Lord my God, for He has looked upon me, and has taken away the reproach of mine enemies; and the Lord has given the fruit of His righteousness, singular in its kind, and richly endowed before Him. Who will tell the sons of Rubim that Anna gives suck? Hear, hear, you twelve tribes of Israel, that Anna gives suck. And she laid her to rest in the bed-chamber of her sanctuary, and went out and ministered unto them. And when the supper was ended, they went down rejoicing, and glorifying the God of Israel.

{continued below}

 

[Hesychios]

{continued from above post #149 }

7. And her months were added to the child. And the child was two years old, and Joachim said: Let us take her up to the temple of the Lord, that we may pay the vow that we have vowed, lest perchance the Lord send to us, and our offering be not received. And Anna said: Let us wait for the third year, in order that the child may not seek for father or mother. And Joachim said: So let us wait. And the child was three years old, and Joachim said: Invite the daughters of the Hebrews that are undefiled, and let them take each a lamp, and let them stand with the lamps burning, that the child may not turn back, and her heart be captivated from the temple of the Lord. And they did so until they went up into the temple of the Lord. And the priest received her, and kissed her, and blessed her, saying: The Lord has magnified your name in all generations. In you, on the last of the days, the Lord will manifest His redemption to the sons of Israel. And he set her down upon the third step of the altar, and the LordGod sent grace upon her; and she danced with her feet, and all the house of Israel loved her.

8. And her parents went down marveling, and praising the Lord God, because the child had not turned back. And Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there, and she received food from the hand of an angel. And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of the priests, saying: Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord? And they said to the high priest: Thou standest by the altar of the Lord; go in, and pray concerning her; and whatever the Lord shall manifest unto you, that also will we do. And the high priest went in, taking the robe with the twelve bells into the holy of holies; and he prayed concerning her. And behold an angel of the Lord stood by him, saying unto him: Zacharias, Zacharias, go out and assemble the widowers of the people, and let them bring each his rod; and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. And the heralds went out through all the circuit of Judæa, and the trumpet of the Lord sounded, and all ran.

9. And Joseph, throwing away his axe, went out to meet them; and when they had assembled, they went away to the high priest, taking with them their rods. And he, taking the rods of all of them, entered into the temple, and prayed; and having ended his prayer, he took the rods and came out, and gave them to them: but there was no sign in them, and Joseph took his rod last; and, behold, a dove came out of the rod, and flew upon Joseph’s head. And the priest said to Joseph, You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl. I am afraid lest I become a laughing-stock to the sons of Israel. And the priest said to Joseph: Fear the Lord your God, and remember what the Lord did to Dathan, and Abiram, and Korah; Numbers 16:31-33 how the earth opened, and they were swallowed up on account of their contradiction. And now fear, O Joseph, lest the same things happen in your house. And Joseph was afraid, and took her into his keeping.

Emphasis (underline and italics) where they appear are mine.

 

[planten]

give examples

so far no one has given credible proof without getting debunked!!!

** tobeinatorstark, you want examples from bible? I had written the following:**

Originally Posted by planten
As far as we know, james was the real brother of Jesus. Jesus had sisters too. It is all mentioned in the bible. It is no use taking the word “brother” in the wider sense. The word “son” is also being taken in a special sense. Why is that? Why the word “Son” is not being taken in the real sense? It appears there is no sense except the desire of the church.

The purpose is just to avoid few problems. The church wants the world to take special meanings of everything according to their wishes to their own advantage. While at the same time the Catholics try to take bad meanings of things in other’s faiths.

About Peter also, I am unhappy that person is not mentioned very well in bible. Is he not the same person in whose name the church was built and he was called the Rock.

Please point out what needs examples or quotes. At one place in bibleNT, he is said to be a dull minded person (as said by Jesus himslef). At the other place, Peter is said to have cursed the Lord Jesus three times. It all goes against the good status of Peter, the Rock. The Rock on which the church was built.

 

[elvisman]

** tobeinatorstark, you want examples from bible? I had written the following:**
This proves nothing.
Go back and read my posts about the usage of the word Adelphos in the Septuatgint. The writers of the NT all learned from the Septuagint and, therefore, would have had a looser definition of the words Adelphos/Adelphoi.

Please point out what needs examples or quotes. At one place in bibleNT, he is said to be a dull minded person (as said by Jesus himslef). At the other place, Peter is said to have cursed the Lord Jesus three times. It all goes against the good status of Peter, the Rock. The Rock on which the church was built.

Don’t really understand your point here.
Simply because Peter mat not have been the smartest person in the world has nothing to do with how he was AFTER he was transformed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[planten]

**Don’t **really understand your point here.
Simply because Peter mat not have been the smartest person in the world has nothing to do with how he was AFTER he was transformed by the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, I also do not understand your last lines. May be there was some typing mistake. Please make it clear about Peter Sahib.

 

[elvisman]

Sorry, I also do not understand your last lines. May be there was some typing mistake. Please make it clear about Peter Sahib.

I was telling you that your points about Peter make no sense.
Explain your problem with the way Scripture speaks of Peter.

 

[freedomwriter]

tobinatorstark;5320674:

If i am lying which i am not, then the Word of God is lying. So many passages to support that Jesus had brothers and sisters. Matt 12:46, Mk 6:3, Lk 11:11:27-28, Jn 7:5, Acts 1:14 of course you still can’t accept this fact.

Amen my brother. Nice scriptures to support your case