B
Brendan
Guest
**Ahhh - you *beat ***me to the punch!!
- Status
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Here are some scriptures for you to reflect upon; I am amazed that one reads the scripture from a 20th century mindset from the ink on the page, instead of by the Holy Spirit who reveals these mysteries since Apostolic times;
Mary Perpetual Virgin prophecised
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel." 16 To the woman he said: āI will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master.ā
Mary remains a virgin after giving birth to Jesus. Mary is full of Godās Grace, that God had placed enmity between Mary and the serpent, that birth pains never affected Mary from Adams and Eveās original sin, Thus she was saved immaculately in the womb of St. Anna, according to the prophet Isaiah.
Pains of child bearing comes from the result of original sin, Mary gives birth with her virginity never affected by this miraculous child bearing of the Messiah.
Isaiah 66: 7 Before she comes to labor, she gives birth; Before the pains come upon her, she safely delivers a male child. 8a. Who ever heard of such a thing, or saw the like? Can a country be brought forth in one day, or a nation be born in a single moment? 9 Shall I bring a mother to the point of birth, and yet not let her child be born? says the LORD; Or shall I who allow her to conceive, yet close her womb? says your God. 10 Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad because of her, all you who love her; Exult, exult with her, all you who were mourning over her! 14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bodies flourish like the grass; The LORDāS power shall be known to his servants, but to his enemies, his wrath.
God sent his son born of a woman:
Galatians 4: 4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive adoption. 6 As proof that you are children, 4 God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, āAbba, Father!ā 7 So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.
Psalms 45: 10 Daughters of kings are your lovely wives; a princess arrayed in Ophirās gold comes to stand at your right hand. 14 All glorious is the kingās daughter as she enters, her raiment threaded with gold; 15 In embroidered apparel she is led to the king. .
18 I will make your name renowned through all generations; thus nations shall praise you forever
This prophecy is fulfilled in Luke 1: 46 And Mary said: 16 "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; 47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior. 48 For he has looked upon his handmaidās lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. 49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name. 50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him. 51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
Isaiah 62: 3 You shall be a glorious crown in the hand of the LORD, a royal diadem held by your God. 4 No more shall men call you āForsaken,ā or your land āDesolate,ā But you shall be called āMy Delight,ā and your land āEspoused.ā For the LORD delights in you,
and makes your land his spouse. 5 As a young man marries a virgin, your Builder shall marry you; And as a bridegroom rejoices in his bride so shall your God rejoice in you.
Isaiah prophecy of Jesus being called from the Virgin Maryās womb. As well as from the uncanonized book of James which records the angel naming Mary to both Anna and Joachim from the small ātraditionā.
Isaiah 49: 1 Hear me, O coastlands, listen, O distant peoples. The LORD called me from birth, from my motherās womb he gave me my name.
Isaiah 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.
Here is a scripture confirming Godās prophecy from Gen.3:15 that satan (sin) will attack the woman, but by Godās enmity, and Word satan (sin) is unable to accuse Mary of sin. Although the father of lies today is still hard at it, of which you appear to believe that lie that Mary sinned;
Revelation 12: 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. 15 The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. 16 But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. 17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep Godās commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
B
BrianH
Guest
Philip Schaff, Protestant historian, provides a succinct synopsis of the Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic views.
There are three theories on James and the brothers of Jesus. I would call them the brother-theory, the half-brother-theory, and the cousin-theory. Bishop Lightfoot (and Canon Farrar) calls them after their chief advocates, the Helvidian (an invidious designation), the Epiphanian, and the Hieronymian theories. The first is now confined to the Protestants, the second is the Greek, the third the Roman view.
(1) The Brother-theory takes the term Ī¬Ī“ĪµĪ»ĻĪæĪÆ in the usual sense, and regards the brothers as younger children of Joseph and Mary, consequently as full brothers of Jesus in the eyes of the law and the opinions of the people, though really only half-brothers, in view of his supernatural conception. This is exegetically the most natural view and favored by the meaning of Ī¬Ī“ĪµĪ»ĻĻĻ (especially when used as standing designation), the constant companionship of these brethren with Mary (John 2:12; Matt. 12:46; 13:55), and the obvious meaning of Matt. 1:25, and Luke 2:7, as explained from the standpoint of the evangelists, who used these terms in full view of the subsequent history of Mary and Jesus. The only serious objections to it is of a doctrinal and ethical nature, viz., the assumed perpetual virginity of the mother of our Lord and Saviour, and the committal of her at the cross to John rather than her own sons and daughters (John 19:25-27). If it were not for these two obstacles the brother-theory would probably be adopted by every fair and honest exegete. The first of these objections dates from the post-apostolic ascetic overestimate of virginity, and cannot have been felt by Matthew and Luke, else they would have avoided these ambiguous terms just noticed. The second difficulty presses also on the other two theories, only in a less degree. It must therefore be solved on other grounds, namely, the profound spiritual sympathy and congeniality of John with Jesus and Mary, which rose above carnal relationships, the probable cousinship of John (based upon the proper interpretation of the same passage, John 19:25), and the unbelief of the real brethren at the time of the committal.
This theory was held by Tertullian (whom Jerome summarily disposes of as not being a āhomo ecclesiaeā i.e. a schismatic), defended by Helvidius at Rome about 380 (violently attacked as a heretic by Jerome), and by several individuals and sects opposed to the incipient worship of the Virgin Mary; and recently by the majority of German exegetes since Herder, such as Stier, De Wette, Meyer, Weiss, Ewald, Wieseler, Keim, also by Dean Alford, and Cannon Farrar (Life of Christ, I. 97 sq.). I advocated the same theory in my German tract, but admitted afterwards in my Hist. Of Ap. Ch., p. 378,that I did not give sufficient weight to the second theory.
(2) The Half-Brother-theory regards the brethren and sisters of Jesus as children of Joseph by a former wife, consequently as no blood-relations at all, but so designated simply as Joseph was called the Father of Jesus, by an exceptional use of the term adapted to the exceptional fact of the miraculous incarnation. This has the dogmatic advantage of saving the perpetual virginity of the mother of our Lord and Saviour; it lessens the moral difficulty implied in John 19:25-27; and it has a strong traditional support in the apocryphal gospels and in the Eastern Church. It also would seem to explain more easily the patronizing tone in which the brethren speak to our Lord in John 7:3,4. But it does not so naturally account for the constant companionship of these brethren with Mary; it assumes a former marriage of Joseph nowhere alluded to in the Gospels, and makes Joseph an old man and protector rather than husband of Mary; and finally it is not free from suspicion of an ascetic bias, as being the first step towards the dogma of perpetual virginity. To these objections may be added, with Farrar, that if the brethren had been elder sons of Joseph, Jesus would not have been regarded as legal heir of the throne of David (Matt. 1:16; Luke 1:27; Rom. 1:3; 2 Tim. 2:8; Rev. 22:16).
This theory is found first in the apocryphal writings of James (the Protevangelium Jacobi, the Ascents of James, etc.), and then among the leading Greek fathers (Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Eusebius, Gregory of Nyssa, Epiphanius, Cyril of Alexandria); it is embodied in the Greek, Syrian, and Coptic services, which assign different dates to the commemoration of James the son of Alphaeus (Oct. 9), and of James the Lordās brother (Oct. 23). It may therefore be called the theory of the Eastern church. It was also held by some Latin fathers before Jerome (Hilary of Poitiers and Ambrose), and has recently been ably advocated by Bishop Lightfoot (l. c.) followed by Dr. Plumptre (in the introduction to his Com. on the Ep. of James).
There are three theories on James and the brothers of Jesus. I would call them the brother-theory, the half-brother-theory, and the cousin-theory. Bishop Lightfoot (and Canon Farrar) calls them after their chief advocates, the Helvidian (an invidious designation), the Epiphanian, and the Hieronymian theories. The first is now confined to the Protestants, the second is the Greek, the third the Roman view.
(1) The Brother-theory takes the term Ī¬Ī“ĪµĪ»ĻĪæĪÆ in the usual sense, and regards the brothers as younger children of Joseph and Mary, consequently as full brothers of Jesus in the eyes of the law and the opinions of the people, though really only half-brothers, in view of his supernatural conception. This is exegetically the most natural view and favored by the meaning of Ī¬Ī“ĪµĪ»ĻĻĻ (especially when used as standing designation), the constant companionship of these brethren with Mary (John 2:12; Matt. 12:46; 13:55), and the obvious meaning of Matt. 1:25, and Luke 2:7, as explained from the standpoint of the evangelists, who used these terms in full view of the subsequent history of Mary and Jesus. The only serious objections to it is of a doctrinal and ethical nature, viz., the assumed perpetual virginity of the mother of our Lord and Saviour, and the committal of her at the cross to John rather than her own sons and daughters (John 19:25-27). If it were not for these two obstacles the brother-theory would probably be adopted by every fair and honest exegete. The first of these objections dates from the post-apostolic ascetic overestimate of virginity, and cannot have been felt by Matthew and Luke, else they would have avoided these ambiguous terms just noticed. The second difficulty presses also on the other two theories, only in a less degree. It must therefore be solved on other grounds, namely, the profound spiritual sympathy and congeniality of John with Jesus and Mary, which rose above carnal relationships, the probable cousinship of John (based upon the proper interpretation of the same passage, John 19:25), and the unbelief of the real brethren at the time of the committal.
This theory was held by Tertullian (whom Jerome summarily disposes of as not being a āhomo ecclesiaeā i.e. a schismatic), defended by Helvidius at Rome about 380 (violently attacked as a heretic by Jerome), and by several individuals and sects opposed to the incipient worship of the Virgin Mary; and recently by the majority of German exegetes since Herder, such as Stier, De Wette, Meyer, Weiss, Ewald, Wieseler, Keim, also by Dean Alford, and Cannon Farrar (Life of Christ, I. 97 sq.). I advocated the same theory in my German tract, but admitted afterwards in my Hist. Of Ap. Ch., p. 378,that I did not give sufficient weight to the second theory.
(2) The Half-Brother-theory regards the brethren and sisters of Jesus as children of Joseph by a former wife, consequently as no blood-relations at all, but so designated simply as Joseph was called the Father of Jesus, by an exceptional use of the term adapted to the exceptional fact of the miraculous incarnation. This has the dogmatic advantage of saving the perpetual virginity of the mother of our Lord and Saviour; it lessens the moral difficulty implied in John 19:25-27; and it has a strong traditional support in the apocryphal gospels and in the Eastern Church. It also would seem to explain more easily the patronizing tone in which the brethren speak to our Lord in John 7:3,4. But it does not so naturally account for the constant companionship of these brethren with Mary; it assumes a former marriage of Joseph nowhere alluded to in the Gospels, and makes Joseph an old man and protector rather than husband of Mary; and finally it is not free from suspicion of an ascetic bias, as being the first step towards the dogma of perpetual virginity. To these objections may be added, with Farrar, that if the brethren had been elder sons of Joseph, Jesus would not have been regarded as legal heir of the throne of David (Matt. 1:16; Luke 1:27; Rom. 1:3; 2 Tim. 2:8; Rev. 22:16).
This theory is found first in the apocryphal writings of James (the Protevangelium Jacobi, the Ascents of James, etc.), and then among the leading Greek fathers (Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Eusebius, Gregory of Nyssa, Epiphanius, Cyril of Alexandria); it is embodied in the Greek, Syrian, and Coptic services, which assign different dates to the commemoration of James the son of Alphaeus (Oct. 9), and of James the Lordās brother (Oct. 23). It may therefore be called the theory of the Eastern church. It was also held by some Latin fathers before Jerome (Hilary of Poitiers and Ambrose), and has recently been ably advocated by Bishop Lightfoot (l. c.) followed by Dr. Plumptre (in the introduction to his Com. on the Ep. of James).
B
BrianH
Guest
(3) The Cousin-theory regards the brethren as more distant relatives, namely, children of Mary, the wife of Alphaeus and sister of the virgin Mary, and identifies James, the brother of the Lord, with James the son of Alphaeus and James the Little, thus making him (as well as also Simon and Jude) an apostle. The exceptive ĪµĪÆĪ¼Ī®, Gal. 1:19 (but I saw only James), does not prove this, but rather excludes James from the apostles proper (comp. ĪµĪÆĪ¼Ī® in Gal. 2:16; Luke 4:26,27).
This theory was first advanced by Jerome in 383, in a youthful polemic tract against Helvidius, without any traditional support[2], but with the professed dogmatic and ascetic aim to save the virginity of both Mary and Joseph, and to reduce their marriage relation to a merely nominal and barren connection. In his later writings, however, after the residence in Palestine, he treats the question with less confidence (see Lightfoot, p. 253). By his authority and the still greater weight of St. Augustin, who at first (394) wavered between the second and third theories, but afterwards adopted that of Jerome, it became the established theory of the Latin church and was embodied in the Western services, which acknowledges only two saints by the name of James. But it is the least tenable of all and must be abandoned, chiefly for the following reasons:
(a) It contradicts the natural meaning of the word ābrothers,ā when the New Testament has the proper word for cousin (Ī¬Ī½ĪµĻĪ¹ĻĻ, Col. 4:10, comp. also ĻĻ Ī³Ī³ĪµĪ½Ī®Ļ, Luke 2:44; 21:16; Mark 6:4, etc.), and the obvious sense of the passage where the brothers and sisters of Jesus appear as members of the holy family.
(b) It assumes that two sisters had the same name, Mary, which is extremely improbable.
(c) It assumes the identity of Clopas and Alphaeus, which is equally doubtful; for the former is a Hebrew name, while the latter is an abbreviation of the Greek ĪĪ»ĪµĻĻĪ±ĻĻĪæĻ.
(d) It is absolutely irreconcilable with the fact that the brethren of Jesus, James among them, were before the resurrection unbelievers, John 7:5, and consequently none of them could be an apostle, as this theory assumes of two or three.
This theory was first advanced by Jerome in 383, in a youthful polemic tract against Helvidius, without any traditional support[2], but with the professed dogmatic and ascetic aim to save the virginity of both Mary and Joseph, and to reduce their marriage relation to a merely nominal and barren connection. In his later writings, however, after the residence in Palestine, he treats the question with less confidence (see Lightfoot, p. 253). By his authority and the still greater weight of St. Augustin, who at first (394) wavered between the second and third theories, but afterwards adopted that of Jerome, it became the established theory of the Latin church and was embodied in the Western services, which acknowledges only two saints by the name of James. But it is the least tenable of all and must be abandoned, chiefly for the following reasons:
(a) It contradicts the natural meaning of the word ābrothers,ā when the New Testament has the proper word for cousin (Ī¬Ī½ĪµĻĪ¹ĻĻ, Col. 4:10, comp. also ĻĻ Ī³Ī³ĪµĪ½Ī®Ļ, Luke 2:44; 21:16; Mark 6:4, etc.), and the obvious sense of the passage where the brothers and sisters of Jesus appear as members of the holy family.
(b) It assumes that two sisters had the same name, Mary, which is extremely improbable.
(c) It assumes the identity of Clopas and Alphaeus, which is equally doubtful; for the former is a Hebrew name, while the latter is an abbreviation of the Greek ĪĪ»ĪµĻĻĪ±ĻĻĪæĻ.
(d) It is absolutely irreconcilable with the fact that the brethren of Jesus, James among them, were before the resurrection unbelievers, John 7:5, and consequently none of them could be an apostle, as this theory assumes of two or three.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Here are āsomeā scripture speaking of the blessed Virgin Mary from the beginning from Genesis to Revelations;
Mary the Mother of God: Theotokos = God bearer
This term was defined āTheotokosā in 431 a.d at the council of Ephesus, when the divinity of Jesus Christ came underattack by heresies and heretics who denied his divinity. The second part of the Hail Mary is made public in prayer āHoly Mary, Mother of God pray for us, now and at the hour of our death amen from this council. The title Mother of God, and Jesus divinity were not invented here in this recorded council in 431 a.d, but these early beliefās were protected and defended against heretical scholars. Thus the council of Ephesus confirmed these doctrine Jesus fully divine, fully human, Mary Theotokos, God bearer, worthy of belief by all Christian believers in the Catholic church which is the body of Jesus Christ.
Code:
Genesis 3: 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."Isaiah 7: 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel (which means God is with us).
Revelation 21: 3 I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, Godās dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people 4 and God himself will always be with them (as their God).
Luke 1: 26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virginās name was Mary. 28 And coming to her, he said, āHail, favored one! The Lord is with you.ā 29 But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. 30 Then the angel said to her, āDo not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.ā 34 But Mary said to the angel, āHow can this be, since I have no relations with a man?ā 12 35 and the angel said to her in reply, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. 36
How is this done: Hear the mystery unfold of this joyful annunciation from the heavenly angel Gabriel to Mary, how the Holy Spirit weds his bride the virgin Mary and over shadowās her in her vow of virginity, as Bishop Fulton Sheen describes this union, āAS A LIGHT SHINES THROUGH A WINDOW WITHOUT DISTURBING THE GLASSā And Mary said āBehold I am the handmaid of the Lord, may it be done to me according to your wordā. The Spirit of the Lord proposes this divine union to the virgin Mary, and Mary consents ā I Doā to the miraculous mystery of God, and pleads her vow to God ā May It be DONE TO ME according to your wordā.
Isaiah 54: 5 For he who has become your husband is your Maker; his name is the LORD of hosts; Your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, called God of all the earth.
Isaiah 62: 5 As a young man marries a virgin, your Builder shall marry you; And as a bridegroom rejoices in his bride so shall your God rejoice in you.
Hosea 2: 21 I will espouse you to me forever: I will espouse you in right and in justice, in love and in mercy; 22 I will espouse you in fidelity, and you shall know the LORD.
Song of Songs 2: 1 I am a flower of Sharon, a lily of the valley. 2 As a lily among thorns, so is my beloved among women. 3 As an apple tree among the trees of the woods, so is my lover among men. I delight to rest in his shadow, and his fruit is sweet to my mouth. 4 He brings me into the banquet hall and his emblem over me is love.
Psalm 45: 18 I will make your name renowned through all generations; thus nations shall praise you forever
Luke 1: 48 For he has looked upon his handmaidās lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
Isaiah 9: 5 For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests. They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace. 6 His dominion is vast and forever peaceful, From Davidās throne, and over his kingdom, which he confirms and sustains By judgment and justice, both now and forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this!
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
cont.
Luke 1: 39 During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah, 40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41
When Elizabeth heard Maryās greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, 42 cried out in a loud voice and said, āMost blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me? 44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.ā 46 And Mary said: 16 āMy soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; ā¦54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy, 55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.ā 56 Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home.
The Ark of the Covenant of old contained the word of God written in stone.
2 Samuel 6:29 David feared the LORD that day and said, āHow can the ark of the LORD come to me?ā 10 So David would not have the ark of the LORD brought to him in the City of David, but diverted it to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11 The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three months, and the LORD blessed Obed-edom and his whole house. 12 When it was reported to King David that the LORD had blessed the family of Obed-edom and all that belonged to him, David went to bring up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom into the City of David amid festivities. 13 As soon as the bearers of the ark of the LORD had advanced six steps, he sacrificed an ox and a fatling. 14 Then David, girt with a linen apron, came dancing before the LORD with abandon, 15 as he and all the Israelites were bringing up the ark of the LORD with shouts of joy and to the sound of the horn.
7 When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: "The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy.
Revelation 11: 19 Then Godās temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. 12:1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
The Ark of the Covenant points to Mary in a variety of ways according to St. Ambrose of Milan 340-397 a.d (St. Irenaeus of Lyons 125-202 a.d taught on the virgin Mary as the new Eve) ; āThe Ark contained the tablets of the Law; Mary contained in her womb the Heir of the Testament. The Ark bore the Law; Mary bore the Gospel. The Ark made the voice of God heard; Mary gave us the very Word of God. The Ark shone forth with the purest of gold; Mary shone forth both inwardly and outwardly with the splendor of Virginity. The gold that adorned the Ark came from the interior of the earth; The gold with which Mary shone forth came from the mines of heaven.ā
The Birth of Jesus
Deuteronomy 4: 32 "Ask now of the days of old, before your time, ever since God created man upon the earth; ask from one end of the sky to the other: Did anything so great ever happen before? Was it ever heard of?
Luke 1: 39 During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah, 40 where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41
When Elizabeth heard Maryās greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, 42 cried out in a loud voice and said, āMost blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me? 44 For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.ā 46 And Mary said: 16 āMy soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; ā¦54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy, 55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.ā 56 Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home.
The Ark of the Covenant of old contained the word of God written in stone.
2 Samuel 6:29 David feared the LORD that day and said, āHow can the ark of the LORD come to me?ā 10 So David would not have the ark of the LORD brought to him in the City of David, but diverted it to the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 11 The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three months, and the LORD blessed Obed-edom and his whole house. 12 When it was reported to King David that the LORD had blessed the family of Obed-edom and all that belonged to him, David went to bring up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom into the City of David amid festivities. 13 As soon as the bearers of the ark of the LORD had advanced six steps, he sacrificed an ox and a fatling. 14 Then David, girt with a linen apron, came dancing before the LORD with abandon, 15 as he and all the Israelites were bringing up the ark of the LORD with shouts of joy and to the sound of the horn.
Code:
Jeremiah hides the Ark of the Covenant never to be revealed again until his prophecy comes to pass.
2 Maccabees 2:5 When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance. 6 Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it.
Code:
The ark of the covenant of new contains the word of God made fleshThe Ark of the Covenant points to Mary in a variety of ways according to St. Ambrose of Milan 340-397 a.d (St. Irenaeus of Lyons 125-202 a.d taught on the virgin Mary as the new Eve) ; āThe Ark contained the tablets of the Law; Mary contained in her womb the Heir of the Testament. The Ark bore the Law; Mary bore the Gospel. The Ark made the voice of God heard; Mary gave us the very Word of God. The Ark shone forth with the purest of gold; Mary shone forth both inwardly and outwardly with the splendor of Virginity. The gold that adorned the Ark came from the interior of the earth; The gold with which Mary shone forth came from the mines of heaven.ā
The Birth of Jesus
Deuteronomy 4: 32 "Ask now of the days of old, before your time, ever since God created man upon the earth; ask from one end of the sky to the other: Did anything so great ever happen before? Was it ever heard of?
Luke 2: 4 And Joseph too went up from Galilee from the town of Nazareth to Judea, to the city of David that is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, 5 to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. 6 While they were there, the time came for her to have her child, 7 and she gave birth to her firstborn son. 3 She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and keeping the night watch over their flock. 9 The angel of the Lord appeared to them and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were struck with great fear. 10 The angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 For today in the city of David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord. 12 And this will be a sign for you: you will find an infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger." 13 And suddenly there was a multitude of the heavenly host with the angel, praising God and saying: 14 "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests." 15 When the angels went away from them to heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let us go, then, to Bethlehem to see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us." 16 So they went in haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. 17 When they saw this, they made known the message that had been told them about this child. 18 All who heard it were amazed by what had been told them by the shepherds. 19 And Mary kept all these things, reflecting on them in her heart. 20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, just as it had been told to them.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
cont;
Exodus 13:2,12 - Jesus is sometimes referred to as the āfirst-bornā son of Mary. But āfirst-bornā is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.
Exodus 34:20 - under the Mosaic law, the āfirst-bornā son had to be sanctified. āFirst-bornā status does not require a āsecondā born.
Ezek. 44:2 - Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Maryās perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.
Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as ātheā son of Mary, not āaā son of Mary. Also ābrothersā could have theoretically been Josephās children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.
Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you āwillā conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, āHow shall this be?ā Maryās response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.
Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.
Exodus 13:2,12 - Jesus is sometimes referred to as the āfirst-bornā son of Mary. But āfirst-bornā is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.
Exodus 34:20 - under the Mosaic law, the āfirst-bornā son had to be sanctified. āFirst-bornā status does not require a āsecondā born.
Ezek. 44:2 - Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Maryās perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.
Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as ātheā son of Mary, not āaā son of Mary. Also ābrothersā could have theoretically been Josephās children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.
Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you āwillā conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, āHow shall this be?ā Maryās response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.
Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.
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Hesychios
Guest
Thanks Brian, that was very interesting!
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freedomwriter
Guest
oh ok I think you lost me with these scriptures. Are we on the same thread that James was the brother of Jesus and was mary an prepetual virgin
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freedomwriter
Guest
ok i have not heard anything from Billy Graham, donāt listen to R.C Sproul He is Calvanist and your wrong about Norman Geisler lol I have his reference book about catholics right in front of me.How about R.C. Sproul? Billy Graham? Norman Geisler?
The passages I provided DO, in fact, debunk your argument. Read them slowly.
**As for the Word - why **rid ourselves of it - just because it doesnāt say what YOU want it to say?
Actually, Protestants HAVE ridded themselves of 7 books of the Bible. They chose to agree with a post-Christ, non-binding gathering of rabbis at the āCouncilā of Jabneh after the fall of Jerusalem, some 50 years after the Death and Resurrection of our Lord. Do some homework on the subject.
PS - If youāre no longer a Catholic - you shoudnāt try to pass yourself off as such.
Protestants didnāt rid themselves or 7 books of history. They were added by the Catholic Councils. Read the name again sloooooowly Born Again Catholic 
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freedomwriter
Guest
Again its Aldephos in the NT meaning literal brother not cousins. Everytime in the NT where Jesusā brothers and sisters is spoken it is in an immediate family setting. If you donāt know what the protestants believe then why talk like you know. You see I have been on both sides. Now I am Born Again. I will be praying for you. You really should know Godās Word before posting. There is no shame in saying you just donāt know. God Bless my brother.
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freedomwriter
Guest
Very well said. Some people just have a hard time accepting the truth. I witnessed to a co worker who was catholic at the time. He would argue the scripture with me all the time but didnāt even know the bible. One day he came to work and said he gave his life to the lord and started to read Godās Word. He would tell me he understood now all that i have been telling him before. Sometime we just need to plant the seed, someone else water and May God get the increaseI expect honesty and I give honestly.
I wonāt be PMāing you.
You decided to suggest that āMaybe your church allows cafeteria-style Christianityā which is just plain silly. It is a term that relates specifically to Roman Catholicism, a problem rampant in your church. Anyone who reads CAF even just occasionally will see that.
ā¦and if you knew anything about Holy Orthodoxy you would not try to say such things and expect to be taken seriously.
Then it is obvious what your problem is.
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elvisman
Guest
Thatās what I gave you and you took offense.
Then youāll have to deal with me on the forums . . .I wonāt be PMāing you.
Wrong - it deals specifically with everybody else who is not Catholic.You decided to suggest that āMaybe your church allows cafeteria-style Christianityā which is just plain silly. It is a term that relates specifically to Roman Catholicism, a problem rampant in your church. Anyone who reads CAF even just occasionally will see that.
If my problem is that I take dogma seriously - then let me be guilty.ā¦and if you knew anything about Holy Orthodoxy you would not try to say such things and expect to be taken seriously.
Then it is obvious what your problem is.
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elvisman
Guest
I listen to them all.ok i have not heard anything from Billy Graham, donāt listen to R.C Sproul He is Calvanist and your wrong about Norman Geisler lol I have his reference book about catholics right in front of me.
I think itās important to listen to faulty theology so that I can better anwer the questions their adherents bring up.
Iāve heard them ALL say it. I heard Norman Geisler on the Bible Answer Man show talk about this. I heard Sproul on his daily show. Canāt remember when I heard Graham.
Protestants did rid themselves of the 7 books. The Catholic version that included the 7 Deuterocanonicals was being used way before they were ever declared by the councils of Hippo and Carthage in the 4th and 5th centuries.
Do your homework, pal.
As for them being āaddedā by Catholic Councils - youāre right.
The Catholic Church compiled and declared the Biblical canon.
Thatās all a matter of history . . .
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elvisman
Guest
I, too am born again I was born again at Baptism (John 3:3-6).
You seem to be having a problem with understanding the Septuagint use of the word Adelphos. Frankly, I think youāre in denial.
**You really should read up on the Septuagint.
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elvisman
Guest
Actually, we Catholics who are knowledgeable about our faith have a hard time believing that anybody could swallow the myths and fairy tales that Protestants have . . .
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elvisman
Guest
I suppose the word, āManyā would have been better to use.
I have read literally dozens of essays and works that hold to the Gospel of Matthew being originally written in Aramaic, then translated to Greek.
to name a few:
Theodor Zahn, Introduction to the New Testament,
H. G. Jameson, The Origin of the Synoptic Gospels.
John Chapman, Matthew, Mark and Luke
Charles Cutler Torrey, Our Translated Gospels
Matthew Black, An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts
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BrianH
Guest
Elvisman
With the exception of Matthew Black, everyone you just listed has been dead for at least sixty and in some cases eighty years ago. How old IS your library?
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elvisman
Guest
**How **does this invalidate their scholarship?
Elvisman
With the exception of Matthew Black, everyone you just listed has been dead for at least sixty and in some cases eighty years ago. How old IS your library?
Like I said ā these were but a few examples.
Some more current examples are - Victor Alexander (1998), Randall Buth (2004).
So, you only hold stock in current claims?
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BrianH
Guest
I was commenting on the quantity assertionā¦but you mention Dr. Buth. As part of the Jersualem School, it is fair I THOUGHT to say he believes that the author of Matthew has an Aramaic influence but was not originally composed in Aramaicā¦**How **does this invalidate their scholarship?
Like I said ā these were but a few examples.
**Some more current **examples are - Victor Alexander (1998), Randall Buth (2004).
So, you only hold stock in current claims?
- Status