James, Brother of Jesus?

[elvisman]

Perhaps you could share some of them with me; I’m always seeking good heretical and apostate sources. The more you dislike them; then the more interested I would be in them…I’m serious - send me a PM with your list. Thanks and God bless you!

Anything written by a Protestant that denounces doctrines of Christs’s Church such as the Real Presence in the Eucharist, Baptismal regeneration, necessity of confession, authority of the church. ANY of these would qualify.

You don’t need me to give you a list - just go to almost any Protestant website. Aead anything by John MacArthur on the Catholic Church or most any other Evangelical Protestant Theologian and you will find heresy after heresy.

 

[elvisman]

Writing about someone and making it dogma are two entirely different things; as though you don’t already know; and there is no way to know if they were true Christians or Apostates…is there?

It also proves you have to go outside of Scripture to an uninspired revelation to make an invalid point or argument. Don’t you think that is problematic?

Hey - going solely to the written word for an explicit teaching is YOUR invention - not mine.

The Catholic Church has NEVER taught this - all the way back to Christ himself.
This is a Protestant invention.

The problem is - your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide fantasies are just that and have NO place in the context of Scripture itself. It’s a neverending circular argument.

Only when you swallow your pride and realize this will your eyes ever be opened to God’s truth.

 

[elvisman]

that is true … the so called gospel of James was probably written in 150 AD & did discuss the veneration of Mary, perpetual virginity, and depicted her as the “new Eve” (as Irenaeus also did, several years later). What does this mean though?

We know the protoevangelium of James wasn’t written by the Jewish James who signed the document as its author. Does that necessarily mean it’s a fake? It’s hard to tell (since it could have been handed down folklore that became diluted and significantly altered by the time it was put on paper) – but remember Rome didn’t canonize the book for a reason.

Of course the actual truth is – it’s all handed down folklore and mythology; but anyways

Hey - the Catholic Church didn’t canonize MANY writings that contain a lot of truth in them. The criteria for canonization wasn’t that they didn’t contain the truth - it was whether they were written under divine inspiration.

**Many of the books that are in the New Testament were fiercely debated as to their canonicity. Look at the Protestant versions. They even went so far as to throw out 7 books of the Old Testament and parts of Daniel and Esther.

It is well documented that Luther wanted to rid the New Testament of James, Jude, 1st & 2nd Peter and Revelation because they didn’t fit with his interpretations.

Just because somethinhg wasn’t included in the canon of scripture DOESN’T make it untrue.
Perhaps a little homework on the subject is in order . . .

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Well - besides the fact that you copied and pasted this from an extreme anti-Catholic’s website John MacArthur - it’s a very shallow attempt to interpret this passage.

It denies polyvalent symbolism that is not only used many times in Revelation but throughout Scripture.

Now - I’m going to paste something from Jimmy akin’s article in This Rock Magazine (1997):

The Woman in Revelation 12 is part of the fusion imagery/polyvalent symbolism that is found in the book. She has four referents:
Israel, the Church, Eve, and Mary.

She is Israel because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from Genesis 37:9–11, in which the patriarch Joseph has a dream of the sun and moon (symbolizing his father and mother) and stars (representing his brothers), which bow down to him. Taken together, the sun, moon, and twelve stars symbolize the people of Israel.

The Woman is the Church because, as 12:17 tells us, “the rest of her offspring” are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians.

The Woman is Eve because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent (the one from Eden) in 20:2. This mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 between Eve, the serpent, and her unborn seed—which in turn is a symbol of the conflict between Mary, Satan, and Jesus.

**Finally, the Woman is Mary **because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron (19:11–16).

Now THAT makes it mush clearer than anti-Catholic MacArthur’s bent and smashes his theory to bits.

Gabriel of 12;
Nice summary elvisman; ditto to the commentary. I thought I introduced these subjects to the poster tanner?

The Catholic interpretation grabs all the subject matter of the woman in revelations, because the vision is taken from eternity not time. To label the Woman as only Israel limits this interpretation only to time which contradicts Revelations vision from eternity, that speaks to “All Ages”. Now that is Catholic Apostolic Teaching, good posting elvisman.

Peace be with you

 

[elvisman]

My own understanding is based on the promise of Jesus; what about yours; the Church?

“Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and **We will come to him and make Our home with him. **

15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, **for He dwells with you and will be in you. **

This is about individuals, not religion or denominations; unfortunately “only a few find it” - Matt 7:14

And what you fail to understand is that the bulk of Jesus’ promises are made to his Church. The bible is replete with these promises and warnings. Lone Ranger christianity was invented by Protestants and is NOWHERE endorsed by the CONTEXT of Scripture. Authority was given by him to the Church - not to us as individuals.

Like I said before - I can take a line out of Scripture and show you that eating spaghetti will send you to hell. However, the CONTEXT of Scripture will prove me wrong.

This is the tragedy of Protestantism. You can make up a doctrine today based on your own understanding and start your own “Christian” denomination and somebody else tomorrow and so on and so on and so on . . .

 

[elvisman]

Gabriel of 12;
Nice summary elvisman; ditto to the commentary. I thought I introduced these subjects to the poster tanner?

Yes - but they all seem to be “tag-teaming” against our collective posts.
Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

First; I did not laugh at your faith; I laughed at your misinterpretation of a single passage; sorry I offended you, I did not realize how sensitive you are, so I will keep that in mind going forward and ask you to forgive me.

Gabriel of 12;
I dont have my own biblical interpretation of revelations: I dont have the authority from God, to do such a thing as you and non catholic and protestants pretend to have. The Catholic interpretation comes from apostolic times unchanged. What are you doing interpreting this vision from heaven and limiting God’s word to time? See above post #418

No need to apologize, I only confronted your laughter to my comment, as to tone down the offense it makes to your attention. Your sentiment is accepted, no harm was ever done.

Peace be with you

 

[josie_L]

And what you fail to understand is that the bulk of Jesus’ promises are made to his Church. The bible is replete with these promises and warnings. Lone Ranger christianity was invented by Protestants and is NOWHERE endorsed by the CONTEXT of Scripture. Authority was given by him to the Church - not to us as individuals.

Like I said before - I can take a line out of Scripture and show you that eating spaghetti will send you to hell. However, the CONTEXT of Scripture will prove me wrong.

This is the tragedy of Protestantism. You can make up a doctrine today based on your own understanding and start your own “Christian” denomination and somebody else tomorrow and so on and so on and so on . . .

Thank God eating spaghetti will not send anyone to hell, I’m Italian.

P.S. Eating meatballs wouldn’t be the same either.

 

[Dokimas]

"Why is it so important to you that James be the Biological brother of Jesus? "​

It’s not important for a Protestant. It is improtant for a Catholic. Just think how many of your beliefs you’d have to change if Mary gave birth to James.​

The truth is important, but there’s some truths that seem more important to have the correct understanding that others. Jesus having sibblings through Mary isn’t that important. Jesus being God is extremely important; His death, burial and resurrection is vital.

 

[freedomwriter]

What do ex-Catholics at a Protestant Church have anything to do with Truth? Are we quantifying veracity through observations such as these? Furthermore, divisions have always existed to some extent in the Church, and guess what, we’re still around to speak of it.

P.S. I love the fact that you’re hijacking the term “Catholic”. And you’ve been here before I recognize something in your manner of speech and the words you’ve used. It’s the second time I see someone write “over 50% ex catholics at the protestant church i attend”.

I am just responding in the same manner as the other person when talking about divisions in the protestant churches. My point was that there are divisions in the catholic church as well.

 

[Tanner9188]

Tanner9188;5373269:

First; I did not laugh at your faith; I laughed at your misinterpretation of a single passage; sorry I offended you, I did not realize how sensitive you are, so I will keep that in mind going forward and ask you to forgive me.

Gabriel of 12;
I dont have my own biblical interpretation of revelations: I dont have the authority from God, to do such a thing as you and non catholic and protestants pretend to have. The Catholic interpretation comes from apostolic times unchanged. What are you doing interpreting this vision from heaven and limiting God’s word to time? See above post #418

No need to apologize, I only confronted your laughter to my comment, as to tone down the offense it makes to your attention. Your sentiment is accepted, no harm was ever done.

Peace be with you

**Thanks for the charity.

All I can tell you is that there is no pretending; anyone that truly has the Holy Spirit indwelt as the Lord promised; knows it in no uncertain way. The change in thought, words and deeds is striking. Furthermore the understanding of His word becomes clear like you could never have ever imagined. One can study all of one’s waking hours and never be satisfied with the wonderful truths contained in His word and love of God manifest itself in ways through the true believer that I cannot even comprehend. In fact it is so glorious; I can’t even come up with the words that do it justice. It is not just me; but I see it in other beloved brothers and sisters. The truth becomes so apparent after a few years that you can spot a phony “so called” Christian many times, not always, but more often than not. This by no means, indicates that God will turn the tare into the wheat. The worst tragedy are the people that think they have it, but the reality is they are far from it; just as Jesus said it would be. This is the most heartbreaking for me because I have friends and relatives in that exact state, but as long as they are alive; i know God can change the heart; I take comfort in that.

God bless you!**

 

[josie_L]

I am just responding in the same manner as the other person when talking about divisions in the protestant churches. My point was that there are divisions in the catholic church as well.

But the divisions to which I refer to are interiorly felt. The protestant churches are a collection of denominations (in which I assume they too experience interior division and would account for the splits and sub-divisions). God bless.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Thanks for the charity.

All I can tell you is that there is no pretending; anyone that truly has the Holy Spirit indwelt as the Lord promised; knows it in no uncertain way. The change in thought, words and deeds is striking. Furthermore the understanding of His word becomes clear like you could never have ever imagined. One can study all of one’s waking hours and never be satisfied with the wonderful truths contained in His word and love of God manifest itself in ways through the true believer that I cannot even comprehend. In fact it is so glorious; I can’t even come up with the words that do it justice. It is not just me; but I see it in other beloved brothers and sisters. The truth becomes so apparent after a few years that you can spot a phony “so called” Christian many times, not always, but more often than not. This by no means, indicates that God will turn the tare into the wheat. The worst tragedy are the people that think they have it, but the reality is they are far from it; just as Jesus said it would be. This is the most heartbreaking for me because I have friends and relatives in that exact state, but as long as they are alive; i know God can change the heart; I take comfort in that.

God bless you!

Gabriel of 12;
What intrigues me about your comment here, from your enlightenment of God’s Word, which is a very beautiful blessing. Somehow gives you the authority to intepret “Truth” and pass judgement of so called “phony” christians? This is a test of Truth, to Love our neighbors as ourself, to Love our enemies.

I can agree with you that God’s Word contains mysteries that can never be exhausted, for one Jesus body, blood soul and divinity revealed in his Gospels of the Eucharist can not be exhausted.

The Holy Spirit is perfect and never contradicts. Although I too experience enlightenment of the Holy Spirit from Miracle at Mass, revelation of answered prayer, study of the scriptures and God’s revelation from my study to my personal life. But these are not a calling from God to contradict his will, with my own will by rejecting what Jesus built. By starting my own “free will” church to compete against (protest) he Catholic Church.

I understand, one’s interpretation today of not wanting to belong to a 2000 year old Catholic Church, because of this age we live in an age of “free will”. Which is abused today by humanity." Freedom only comes when our will rests in the will of God does it become truly will and truly free". “Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger” (Spirit and the Liturgy).

Peace be with you

 

[Tanner9188]

Gabriel of 12;
Somehow gives you the authority to intepret “Truth” and pass judgment of so called “phony” christians?

**God is the one who gives the ability to see and articulate His truth as revealed in Scripture via the Spirit, which leads one to the correct understanding of Scripture. Before I was a Christian I would read God’s word and a few things I understood; but most I did not although I thought I did. I’ll give you an example because I see this error all the time.
1 John 3:8-9
8He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God"

1 John 5:18a “We know that whoever is born of God does not sin;”

When I first read and thought I understood; I believed that since I sin I cannot be saved or part of the Kingdom; why? It says if you sin you are of the devil and only those that do not sin are of God in those two passages. So what is the truth?

You have to look in the context; when we died in Christ, then Christ and His righteousness are in us and in Him their is no sin, thus it is not us that sins, but the flesh we still live with. Lets look at his precept from Scripture. Here are some various passages to show what it means to be in Christ and more importantly Christ in you via the Holy Spirit and the cross.

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. "

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

“And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins”

“Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.”

“the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will F6 abide in Him.”

“For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all;”

"If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. "

There are many many more, but the point is that when one dwells in Christ; it is no longer the “old man”, it is put to death because of Christ, but the new man and a new creation in Christ. But as you plainly see from the words of Paul, we still sin, but not us, the flesh that dwells in us. The direction of your life, the true believer, will to be more like Christ and to sin less and less and less.

I do not pass judgment in the condemnation sense; but discernment is a gift of God given to believers; particularly if it is something you pray about.**

I can agree with you that God’s Word contains mysteries that can never be exhausted, for one Jesus body, blood soul and divinity revealed in his Gospels of the Eucharist can not be exhausted.The Holy Spirit is perfect and never contradicts. Although I too experience enlightenment of the Holy Spirit from Miracle at Mass, revelation of answered prayer, study of the scriptures and God’s revelation from my study to my personal life. But these are not a calling from God to contradict his will, with my own will by rejecting what Jesus built. By starting my own “free will” church to compete against (protest) he Catholic Church.
I understand, one’s interpretation today of not wanting to belong to a 2000 year old Catholic Church, because of this age we live in an age of “free will”. Which is abused today by humanity." Freedom only comes when our will rests in the will of God does it become truly will and truly free". “Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger” (Spirit and the Liturgy).
Peace be with you

As a child of God; one will be able to discern the truth of both what is good and what is evil, what is true and what is false. The writings of many are the very thoughts of a man; just as you have written above. If you could compare what you have written with the word of God, then your eyes my be opened with the help of God to weather what you have written is in accordance to what God has revealed.
CONTINUED ON NEXT POST****

 

[Tanner9188]

**For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

This is why when someone asks the question; how do you know your interpretation is the truth; I lean on God’s promises above and the one below:

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”**

 

[jpaul1953]

The bible is not a Catholic book. Look at who wrote the Gospels and to whom they wrote them too. I also see that there is division amongst the Catholic church. See how many types of catholics there are now days. Why do you think this is happening. We have over 50% ex catholics at the prostestant church i attend. Hmmm wonder why that is happening. James is also the brother of Christ and Mary did have other children with Joseph. There is no debate about what the scriptures say. If you want to debate someone take it up with the Lord. You are right in one thing and that this is not really an issue that needs to take much time in debating. Like Salvation

Freedomwriter,

50% of you congregation is past Catholics because your denomination permits weaker Catholics ( their seeds fell on rock and burned up) the opportunity to live their life with less obligation to the obedience of Christ and feel okay about it.

For instance, these past Catholics can’t face Confession, which Christ requires (John 20:19-23), can’t handle not being able to divorce, can’t handle having to go to Church on all days specified, and just as many protestants say those Catholics don’t know the Bible, which was put together by the Catholic Church and written complete in the Vulgate, just like you don’t. Just because you say it is doesn’t mean it is.

Your congregation is not the Church. Do some more research . It would help your case. If you think that Catholics leaving the Church to go to your congregation is a good thing you are sadly mistaken. Your congregation made the once saved possibly not saved.

Incidently, us practical Catholics are born again every time we go to confession. Now, that’s something. Born anew in our one true faith with our Lord.

The Catholic faith isn’t for the weak. It’s for the true followers of the Christ.

Search out about the early fathers of the Church. Even the protestant reformists of the 1500’s believed in Mary’s virginity and transubstantiation. Later the protestants agreed to these to further separate from the one true Church.

Read history. Follow the truth not your ego.

jpaul1953

 

[Tanner9188]

Freedomwriter,

50% of you congregation is past Catholics because your denomination permits weaker Catholics ( their seeds fell on rock and burned up) the opportunity to live their life with less obligation to the obedience of Christ and feel okay about it.

For instance, these past Catholics can’t face Confession, which Christ requires (John 20:19-23), can’t handle not being able to divorce, can’t handle having to go to Church on all days specified, and just as many protestants say those Catholics don’t know the Bible, which was put together by the Catholic Church and written complete in the Vulgate, just like you don’t. Just because you say it is doesn’t mean it is.

Your congregation is not the Church. Do some more research . It would help your case. If you think that Catholics leaving the Church to go to your congregation is a good thing you are sadly mistaken. Your congregation made the once saved possibly not saved.

Incidently, us practical Catholics are born again every time we go to confession. Now, that’s something. Born anew in our one true faith with our Lord.

The Catholic faith isn’t for the weak. It’s for the true followers of the Christ.

Search out about the early fathers of the Church. Even the protestant reformists of the 1500’s believed in Mary’s virginity and transubstantiation. Later the protestants agreed to these to further separate from the one true Church.

Read history. Follow the truth not your ego.

jpaul1953

:coffeeread:

This should be enlightening; can’t wait to see the response!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

**For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" **

This is why when someone asks the question; how do you know your interpretation is the truth; I lean on God’s promises above and the one below:

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.”

Gabriel of 12;

Hi, Tanner; I read your complete post and come away that you truly are spiritual and seek God in his Truth for this I commend you. The items you covered have been around in the Catholic Church these past 2000 years. What you listed here without knowing you did, was confrim and touched on what happens in the Sacraments that Jesus gave his Church 2000 years ago. Baptism makes us children of God, Confession cleanses us from our mortal sins, making us spotless and without wrinkler before God’s throne. We are partakers of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity in Holy Communion, where; according to Jesus, “The flesh availeth nothing, it is the Spirit that gives life”. What you stated above is not something new we as Catholics find from scripture. But we live out the scriptures, and the Word becomes present to our daily lives in the Sacraments Jesus gave us.This is where “Sola Scriptura” leaves off, because “God dwells with the human race”, not “Sola Scriptura” does God dwell.

These blessings are just the beginning of enlightenment because Jesus gave his Chuch an inexhaustible treasure of living in the Spirit. Scripture takes on a whole way of living in Jesus Christ, because to a Catholic the Word of God is not just visible on a page, but becomes present to us in the Liturgies of the Mass.

The difference of what we are speaking is that the biblical Sacraments of Jesus have been with the Catholic Church since Pentecost. Your enlightenment of scripture reading does not come on the scene for another 1500 years later. What Catholics have is what the early christians labeled “The full deposit of faith”. History, Scriptures, and Apsotolic Tradition supports one another and is revealed in the Catholic Church lived.

I guess we have gotten away from Jesus and his brother James topic. Interpreting scripture from a 20th century mindset, will lead to contradictions in the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

 

[freedomwriter]

Freedomwriter,

50% of you congregation is past Catholics because your denomination permits weaker Catholics ( their seeds fell on rock and burned up) the opportunity to live their life with less obligation to the obedience of Christ and feel okay about it.

For instance, these past Catholics can’t face Confession, which Christ requires (John 20:19-23), can’t handle not being able to divorce, can’t handle having to go to Church on all days specified, and just as many protestants say those Catholics don’t know the Bible, which was put together by the Catholic Church and written complete in the Vulgate, just like you don’t. Just because you say it is doesn’t mean it is.

Your congregation is not the Church. Do some more research . It would help your case. If you think that Catholics leaving the Church to go to your congregation is a good thing you are sadly mistaken. Your congregation made the once saved possibly not saved.

Incidently, us practical Catholics are born again every time we go to confession. Now, that’s something. Born anew in our one true faith with our Lord.

The Catholic faith isn’t for the weak. It’s for the true followers of the Christ.

Search out about the early fathers of the Church. Even the protestant reformists of the 1500’s believed in Mary’s virginity and transubstantiation. Later the protestants agreed to these to further separate from the one true Church.

Read history. Follow the truth not your ego.

jpaul1953

hmmm could it be that former catholics left because they wanted to learn more about God’s Word other than hearing it from some council that has changed its ruling on scripture several times. I feel more of an obligation to follow Christ now that i know God’s Word. It is also a crazy statement to make to say that some catholics can’t face confession. There is one God and one mediator between Man and God, the Man Christ Jesus. You see we don’t have to wait to confess our sins to a priest, we can go to Christ at anytime. I totally disagree with you that Christ left the scriptures to the Catholic church and don’t come up with the old theory that Peter was the first pope. Show some scripture to back up your point. The church consists of all believers not just catholics. To be honest to me it is a great thing to see former catholics come to a church where they are taught the Word of God. There is nothing sad about it. As far as salvation goes the scriptures are clear. Read these scriptures slowly and ask yourself what do they mean to you Rom 6:23, Eph 2:8-9, John 3:16. You might want to go to a bible study to learn more about scriptures before making these statements. If you need help let me know and i will be more than willing to assist you. God Bless

 

[Tanner9188]

Gabriel of 12;

Hi, Tanner; I read your complete post and come away that you truly are spiritual and seek God in his Truth for this I commend you. The items you covered have been around in the Catholic Church these past 2000 years. What you listed here without knowing you did, was confrim and touched on what happens in the Sacraments that Jesus gave his Church 2000 years ago. Baptism makes us children of God, Confession cleanses us from our mortal sins, making us spotless and without wrinkler before God’s throne. We are partakers of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity in Holy Communion, where; according to Jesus, “The flesh availeth nothing, it is the Spirit that gives life”. What you stated above is not something new we as Catholics find from scripture. But we live out the scriptures, and the Word becomes present to our daily lives in the Sacraments Jesus gave us.This is where “Sola Scriptura” leaves off, because “God dwells with the human race”, not “Sola Scriptura” does God dwell.

These blessings are just the beginning of enlightenment because Jesus gave his Chuch an inexhaustible treasure of living in the Spirit. Scripture takes on a whole way of living in Jesus Christ, because to a Catholic the Word of God is not just visible on a page, but becomes present to us in the Liturgies of the Mass.

The difference of what we are speaking is that the biblical Sacraments of Jesus have been with the Catholic Church since Pentecost. Your enlightenment of scripture reading does not come on the scene for another 1500 years later. What Catholics have is what the early christians labeled “The full deposit of faith”. History, Scriptures, and Apsotolic Tradition supports one another and is revealed in the Catholic Church lived.

I guess we have gotten away from Jesus and his brother James topic. Interpreting scripture from a 20th century mindset, will lead to contradictions in the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

**Hi Gabriel of 12,

The Spirit dwells in each individual believer; not at specific times for attending a Mass or following some Tradition; it is all of the time. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the true Baptism; whereas water baptism is or should be the first act of obedience. Reality or experience shows that water baptism does not save; many have been water baptized, but walked away because they never believed in the first place. Many truly believe and have not been baptized and will be in heaven; why they did not obey this basic command; I do not know, but I’m sure some are valid and some just plain excuses.

Feelings, miracles, visions or any other of these things that make people “feel” spiritual and close to God" are not of God; for God says those to whom He takes residence are a new creation; the old is now dead to sin. Do we still sin; yes, but only while in this fleshly body, we have a new spirit, but we have the same old body. But when the time has come and we see Him as He is; then we will be like Him…we will be like Him in thought, word, deed and body and my, what a glorious day that will be.

This “deposit of faith” is not some “Holy Bank” reserved for whomever the Church decides to distribute. The true deposit of faith is in the hearts and minds of all true believers; that is the power of God unto Salvation. No one can understand that has not received this newness of life on the inside, which is manifested on the outside in thoughts, words and deeds, wrought by God and prepared by God before the foundation of the world. This is what the Bible teaches and this is what I and others experience and know to be true. Not because of anything we did, but because Christ in us (Holy Spirit) does truly testify to our spirit that we are His and no longer our old selves. It is the same experience and knowledge that everyone I know that is a Christian has experienced. We cannot put it into words or understand because it is supernatural, wrought by a super natural God, in a supernatural way.

There are no mystical experiences, speaking in tongues, no mystical visions; these are not from above. Were there at the beginning; yes because this was the time when the special revelation was being putforth.

I know what I tell you makes no sense to you, but it is true and it is just as the Living Word says.

I pray God reaches you through Himself and not through some religious experience; i really do and not just for you but for all.

God bless you this day!

Maybe we need a new thread titled “Open Discussions”**