James, Brother of Jesus?

[elvisman]

hmmm could it be that former catholics left because they wanted to learn more about God’s Word other than hearing it from some council that has changed its ruling on scripture several times. I feel more of an obligation to follow Christ now that i know God’s Word. It is also a crazy statement to make to say that some catholics can’t face confession. There is one God and one mediator between Man and God, the Man Christ Jesus. You see we don’t have to wait to confess our sins to a priest, we can go to Christ at anytime. I totally disagree with you that Christ left the scriptures to the Catholic church and don’t come up with the old theory that Peter was the first pope. Show some scripture to back up your point. The church consists of all believers not just catholics. To be honest to me it is a great thing to see former catholics come to a church where they are taught the Word of God. There is nothing sad about it. As far as salvation goes the scriptures are clear. Read these scriptures slowly and ask yourself what do they mean to you Rom 6:23, Eph 2:8-9, John 3:16. You might want to go to a bible study to learn more about scriptures before making these statements. If you need help let me know and i will be more than willing to assist you. God Bless

Contrary to your ignorance - unfortunately, there ARE some Catholics who can’t and won’t face confession, even though - as jpaul1953 stated - Christ requires it (Matt. 16:19, 18:18, John 20:23).

**Jesus did leave the Church as the custodian of deposit of faith - whether or not you believe it - and this has been pointed out with Scripture many times (**1 Tim. 1:13-14, ****1 Tim. 2:1-2, ****2 Thess. 2:15, ****Acts 15:28, 1 Cor. 11:2).
We have also shown you - with scripture - that Peter WAS the first pope (Matt. 16:15-19, Luke 22:32, John 21:15-19).
Your problem is that you turn a blind eye to the truth.

You’re right about ONE thing:
Jesus IS the one mediator between God and man because nobody else’s blood could have redeemed the world.
However - we are ALL called upon to be intercessors for one another (1 Tim. 2:1, James 5:16).

Lastly - you have shown no proof of any reference to uterine siblings of Jesus. I and several others have already shown you this with scripture - and Jimmyb did a masterful job debunking the “James connection”.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

**

The Spirit dwells in each individual believer; not at specific times for attending a Mass or following some Tradition; it is all of the time. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the true Baptism; whereas water baptism is or should be the first act of obedience.

Feelings, miracles, visions or any other of these things that make people “feel” spiritual and close to God" are not of God; for God says those to whom He takes residence are a new creation; the old is now dead to sin.

This “deposit of faith” is not some “Holy Bank” reserved for whomever the Church decides to distribute.

There are no mystical experiences, speaking in tongues, no mystical visions; these are not from above. Were there at the beginning; yes because this was the time when the special revelation was being putforth.

I know what I tell you makes no sense to you, but it is true and it is just as the Living Word says.

Maybe we need a new thread titled “Open Discussions”**

Gabriel of 12;
Greetings Tanner;

From your post you have a misunderstanding of my 2000 year old Catholic faith. The terminology and descriptions you listed need clarification. You have listed much here about the mysteries of God. I resist the temptation to flood this post with much biblical proof of My Catholic faith, and regret this is not the thread to discuss much topics.

So I will conclude a fundamental difference between your “spiritual” faith, and my faith which brings me into the “True Presence” of the Triune God with heavenly Glory. Before that, Let me remind you that “Christianity” is the fulfillment of the Judeo religion of the Old Covenant Law and prophets. God does not change. What God has done in the New Covenant was reveal the Old Covenant and from the death of his Son (The Testator) from the beginning removes the sting of death from the law which convicts. For the covenant of God to be fulfilled a “Death” of the Testator must take place, and has taken place, not just in time, but “once and for all” from eternity.

I will give you a foretaste of what takes place in the ancient Mass of the Apostles still practiced today by the Catholic Church in time with Eternity.

Hebrews 4:14
1 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession.
15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin.
16
So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

Hebrews 7:24
but he, because he remains forever, has a priesthood that does not pass away.
25
17 Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 10:19
9 **Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary
20
10 by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, **
21
11 and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,”
22
let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience 12 and our bodies washed in pure water.
23
Let us hold unwaveringly to our confession that gives us hope, for he who made the promise is trustworthy.
24
We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works.
25
**We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near. **

What you have stated, I do understand your point of view. As one “living in the Spirit”. This a broad statement in Evangelical, Protestant circles where this statement has a variety of meanings. The Catholic faith and the bible never equates the “spirit” as symbolic or a state of ones demeaner. The Holy Spirit is a Person of the Triune Godhead, who reveals the mysteries of God.

What I introduced to you is not ink on a page to believe and hold to a faith in Jesus thinking no action of Christianity ceases. The whole new testament does not just speak of faith and belief, but faith from
Hebrews 11: 1 Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence 2 of things not seen.
2
Because of it the ancients were well attested.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was ordered by the word of God, 3 so that what is visible came into being through the invisible.

This faith is well attested of what takes place in the Catholic faith, it is real, and full present, not by a feeling, or emotion of enlightenment, but Jesus is present, living in his body the Catholic Church.

I agree another thread is in order if you like, we can discuss more about “The full (apostolic Catholic) deposit of faith”, or other discussions?

 

[Tanner9188]

Contrary to your ignorance - unfortunately, there ARE some Catholics who can’t and won’t face confession, even though - as jpaul1953 stated - Christ requires it (Matt. 16:19, 18:18, John 20:23).

Jesus did leave the Church as the custodian of deposit of faith - whether or not you believe it - and this has been pointed out with Scripture many times (**1 Tim. 1:13-14, ****1 Tim. 2:1-2, ****2 Thess. 2:15, ****Acts 15:28, **1 Cor. 11:2).
We have also shown you - with scripture - that Peter WAS the first pope (Matt. 16:15-19, Luke 22:32, John 21:15-19).
Your problem is that you turn a blind eye to the truth.

You’re right about ONE thing:
Jesus IS the one mediator between God and man because nobody else’s blood could have redeemed the world.
However - we are ALL called upon to be intercessors for one another (1 Tim. 2:1, James 5:16).

Lastly - you have shown no proof of any reference to uterine siblings of Jesus. I and several others have already shown you this with scripture - and Jimmyb did a masterful job debunking the “James connection”.

**I can’t discern if you believe even what you say. It is easily discernible that you have no clear knowledge of God and the ways of God. It is also clear you have an extremely low view of Scripture in light of you religion; it’s fine if that is your thing, but you will never see the Kingdom until you come full circle by the grace and mercy of God.

May He bless you to that end as He as others.**

 

[Tanner9188]

Gabriel of 12;
Greetings Tanner;

From your post you have a misunderstanding of my 2000 year old Catholic faith. The terminology and descriptions you listed need clarification. You have listed much here about the mysteries of God. I resist the temptation to flood this post with much biblical proof of My Catholic faith, and regret this is not the thread to discuss much topics.

So I will conclude a fundamental difference between your “spiritual” faith, and my faith which brings me into the “True Presence” of the Triune God with heavenly Glory. Before that, Let me remind you that “Christianity” is the fulfillment of the Judeo religion of the Old Covenant Law and prophets. God does not change. What God has done in the New Covenant was reveal the Old Covenant and from the death of his Son (The Testator) from the beginning removes the sting of death from the law which convicts. For the covenant of God to be fulfilled a “Death” of the Testator must take place, and has taken place, not just in time, but “once and for all” from eternity.

I will give you a foretaste of what takes place in the ancient Mass of the Apostles still practiced today by the Catholic Church in time with Eternity.

Hebrews 4:14
1 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession.
15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin.
16
So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

Hebrews 7:24
but he, because he remains forever, has a priesthood that does not pass away.
25
17 Therefore, he is always able to save those who approach God through him, since he lives forever to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 10:19
9 **Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary
20
10 by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, **
21
11 and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,”
22
let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience 12 and our bodies washed in pure water.
23
Let us hold unwaveringly to our confession that gives us hope, for he who made the promise is trustworthy.
24
We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works.
25
**We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near. **

What you have stated, I do understand your point of view. As one “living in the Spirit”. This a broad statement in Evangelical, Protestant circles where this statement has a variety of meanings. The Catholic faith and the bible never equates the “spirit” as symbolic or a state of ones demeaner. The Holy Spirit is a Person of the Triune Godhead, who reveals the mysteries of God.

What I introduced to you is not ink on a page to believe and hold to a faith in Jesus thinking no action of Christianity ceases. The whole new testament does not just speak of faith and belief, but faith from
Hebrews 11: 1 Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence 2 of things not seen.
2
Because of it the ancients were well attested.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was ordered by the word of God, 3 so that what is visible came into being through the invisible.

This faith is well attested of what takes place in the Catholic faith, it is real, and full present, not by a feeling, or emotion of enlightenment, but Jesus is present, living in his body the Catholic Church.

I agree another thread is in order if you like, we can discuss more about “The full (apostolic Catholic) deposit of faith”, or other discussions?

**Thanks for the idea of a new thread from your last paragraph; we will se as time moves along.

Hebrews 10:-19-20 “Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,”

This is speaking of our direct ability to go directly to Jesus because of the work on the cross the shedding of His flesh on out behalf. Remember when He died, a great earthquake rent the veil exposing the Holy of Holies, which only the High Priest was allowed to enter once a year; now through and in Christ, our High Priest, He is the place where we can go anytime and anywhere we are because of the finished work on the cross the sacrafice of His flesh and pouring out of His blood; the New Covenant.

As I have said many times and proven from many passages; Jesus remains at the right hand of God until His enemies are made his footstool, than and only then, will He come back to fulfill what has been written. In the meantime, the Holy Spirit is in charge of convicting and converting souls until the fullness of times has come and Jesus returns. Therefore, in my opinion, according to the word of God, Jesus is a liar if He is being commanded and agrees to be resacrificed over and over in your Church. If I am correct; than you have a very difficult and serious dilemma on your hands according to Scripture.

Read the word and read the word and pray for understanding, knowledge, wisdom and discernment that you will know the truth and indeed if the Son sets you free; you will be free.

God bless you!**

 

[elvisman]

I can’t discern if you believe even what you say. It is easily discernible that you have no clear knowledge of God and the ways of God. It is also clear you have an extremely low view of Scripture in light of you religion; it’s fine if that is your thing, but you will never see the Kingdom until you come full circle by the grace and mercy of God.

May He bless you to that end as He as others.

And you suffer from spiritual pride, my friend.

My beliefs are the very same beliefs that that have always been taught since the time of Christ.
I believe everything that ALL of the Apostles along with Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Cyril, Augustine, Aquinas and all of the other champions of the faith believed. You don’t. They were ALL Catholic, whereas you have chosen to rebel against God.

You have chosen to make up your own set of beliefs - or follow those of other spiritually prideful men. In short - you follow the traditions of men that Jesus condemned (Mark 7:9-13). That is precisely what happened at the Reformation and continues to splinter by the tens of thousands today.

We Catholics follow the traditions of the faith and the Apostles that Paul spoke of (2 Thess. 2:15, 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 12:14, 1 Tim. 3:15).
I’ll pray for you, friend.

 

[jpaul1953]

I believe most Catholics adhere to the belief that James was a “cousin”. This is based on the fact that brother is not completely clear, being used to refer to other close relatives at times. However, Catholic teaching is based as well on the developed beliefs and dogma surrounding Mary, and that she must remain a virgin so to retain her holy “vessel” status.

Protestants I think are more inclined to believe that James was a true blood brother, and that Jesus had several brothers and sisters, which was common of course to families of that time. I believe as well that most biblical scholars believe they were blood brothers and sisters.

In the end, it is not particularly important I suspect which is believed. It certainly doesn’t change anything about what Jesus taught.

Spirit Meadow,

In the last couple of hundred years, the protesters chose to change some doctrines of the Church that the early protesters wholly believed in… the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, transubstantiation, the day of rest being Sunday (the Resurrection) rather than Saturday, the canons of the NT(solely in the NT by the Catholic hierarchy). Why did you guys decide to stop believing what the original protesters did?. That’s why those who leave the true church are living in sin because they choose to believe the way they want to make them feel at peace, turning from the truth. You’re not at fault thought because you never believed the truth so you can’t be responsible for it.

Why do protestants read the bible with personal imnterpretations? I guess so they can start their own believe system without reference to the one True Church (even though any Christian is a catholic by being Christian).

If you want the truth and only the truth, you will eventually stop protesting and start living the truth. Your faith has truths, but sometimes you leave out the tough truths so you can be in peace on earth. Obedience is the key response to God’s call. You are judged based on what you know and what you did with it.

I would love to hear all the interpretations of strictly Catholic beliefs in the Bible by Protestants. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000+ different protestant churches with their own set of beliefs and set of interpretations. Do you believe this was God’s choice… many different ways of understanding one truth. All I hear is that the indivdual interpreter says they were guided tby the Holy Spirit. Well, be that as it may, there would be total agreement on each verse, each time. Pauls atates that the Bible is not open for personal interpretation.

Matthew 16:15-19 is clear if you want the truth. Nowhere else in the Bible has the authority been given to anyone. Even Paul when he was knocked off the horse was not told that 'anything he teaches Heaven will agree with, only Simon (Kephas-great rock in Aramaic)Peter. Why? Because jesus trusted Peter with the keys to the kingdom and guaranteed His Church(not churches) survival against the gates of hell. Stop denying it.

If you believe that Christ didn’t make a mistake when he said that then you must believe the biblical interpretations of the Church through its Viacr, Simon now known as Simon Peter.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

**Thanks for the idea of a new thread from your last paragraph; we will se as time moves along.

Hebrews 10:-19-20 “Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place** by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,”

This is speaking of our direct ability to go directly to Jesus because of the work on the cross the shedding of His flesh on out behalf. Remember when He died, a great earthquake rent the veil exposing the Holy of Holies, which only the High Priest was allowed to enter once a year; now through and in Christ, our High Priest, He is the place where we can go anytime and anywhere we are because of the finished work on the cross the sacrafice of His flesh and pouring out of His blood; the New Covenant.

**Gabriel of 12;
For one you speak of as entering the Holy of holies to get to Jesus? This is a very bad misinterpretation. We go to the Father through Jesus by his sacrifice, where Jesus is standing as a lamb as though slain. We cannot enter the Holy of Holies without Jesus. Here is why;

How can one enter the Holy of Holies without the True presence of our High Priest Jesus Christ on Earth with the angels and saints as Scripture dictates, when you dont subscribe to the “True presence of Jesus Christ”? No one can do it alone, only through Jesus christ body, blood, soul and divinity does one enters the Throne room of God. The “New and Living Way” that Hebrews speak of is the New Covenant in Jesus blood. Reread the "last supper discourses from the Gospels especially Luke, who confirms this “new way” in the New and everlasitng covenant.

Your interpretation of entering the Holy of holies by Jesus blood is hoped for and believed one day; you will; by faith;

The difference here is that Catholics truly do enter the Holy of Holies by the One True presence of the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World, standing before God (as a lamb as though slain) on our behalf from eternity, offering to God his sacrifice when he makes himself present to every age in his body, blood, soul and divinity at every Mass once and for all.

Never a re-sacrifice as you wrongly misinterpret 2000 years of Christianity. You yourself dont deny that God can make himself present anytime anywhere. God holds true to his word from scripture, when we do as he commands to “do this in rememberance of me”, of how he makes himself present to all ages when the Church obeys his commands to do so.

Catholics live out the scriptures in life (time) in the “parousia”, at the same time recieving a taste of the Glory to come, when Jesus returns for his Bride the Catholic Church to be with him in eternity.

Catholics worship God in “Spirit and Truth”, without the body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, you lack either the Spirit, or Truth itself, in any case these two cannot be divided. For there is only One Spirit and One Truth One Lord and One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church since pentecost.**

Tanner;

As I have said many times and proven from many passages; Jesus remains at the right hand of God until His enemies are made his footstool, than and only then, will He come back to fulfill what has been written. In the meantime, the Holy Spirit is in charge of convicting and converting souls until the fullness of times has come and Jesus returns. Therefore, in my opinion, according to the word of God, Jesus is a liar if He is being commanded and agrees to be resacrificed over and over in your Church. If I am correct; than you have a very difficult and serious dilemma on your hands according to Scripture.

**Gabriel of 12;

First of all, Catholics and the scriptures have Jesus sitting at the righthand of God (“it is finished”) Jesus is also standing as a lamb as though slain but remains “standing” this is the once and for all sacrifice from eternity being proclaimed (the death of the Lord until he returns please read 1 Cor.11:26) in time from the Mass on earth with the liturgical Mass in heaven described in the book of Revelations. You are greatly misinformed of the Apostolic Catholic Faith. We dont re-sacrifice Jesus, we obey Jesus “To this in remembrance of me” made present to all ages).

Once more scripture has Jesus standing during the Martyrdom of St. Stephen in the book of Acts of the Apostles. What does this mean? Standing is a posture of taking action. Jesus is still present to his Catholic Church members, saints, martyrs for 2000 years and counting… Jesus has never left his Catholic church.

It is one thing to hold to a scripture of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, Catholics proclaim this publicly in every Mass from our profession of faith (Credo). But Catholic biblical faith teachings do not stop at one scripture, Her teachings encompass the Whole of the bible both Old and New Testament without one letter ever being omitted. To remove or disregard one letter of God’s holy Word, is not Truth, but only a partial of truth. Thus the full deposit of faith comes from the entire bible and Apostolic Tradition.**

Tanner;
Read the word and read the word and pray for understanding, knowledge, wisdom and discernment that you will know the truth and indeed if the Son sets you free; you will be free.

God bless you!

Gabriel of 12;
Thank you and may God bless you; I have re-read these scriptures, but where your interpretation leaves off stumped in time, my Catholic faith continues in the Real True presence of the Living God to and from eternity.

 

[Tanner9188]

And you suffer from spiritual pride, my friend.

My beliefs are the very same beliefs that that have always been taught since the time of Christ.
I believe everything that ALL of the Apostles along with Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Cyril, Augustine, Aquinas and all of the other champions of the faith believed. You don’t. They were ALL Catholic, whereas you have chosen to rebel against God.

You have chosen to make up your own set of beliefs - or follow those of other spiritually prideful men. In short - you follow the traditions of men that Jesus condemned (Mark 7:9-13). That is precisely what happened at the Reformation and continues to splinter by the tens of thousands today.

We Catholics follow the traditions of the faith and the Apostles that Paul spoke of (2 Thess. 2:15, 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 12:14, 1 Tim. 3:15).
I’ll pray for you, friend.

**I love replying to you because your knowledge is so superficial you sound like a parrot for the Church. You may not believe this but I really like you; you make me laugh and give some comic relief to this forum; so keep on keeping on and enjoy the precepts of men you have been taught and more importantly enjoy life as fast and hard as you can for it is short, then you will face God.

Oh you are right I an proud to boast in God; I realized a long time ago there was nothing in me worth boasting about, but being a new creation in Christ. like Paul i boast in the Lord!**

 

[freedomwriter]

**I love replying to you because your knowledge is so superficial you sound like a parrot for the Church. You may not believe this but I really like you; you make me laugh and give some comic relief to this forum; so keep on keeping on and enjoy the precepts of men you have been taught and more importantly enjoy life as fast and hard as you can for it is short, then you will face God.

Oh you are right I an proud to boast in God; I realized a long time ago there was nothing in me worth boasting about, but being a new creation in Christ. like Paul i boast in the Lord!**

Amen Brother Well said

 

[elvisman]

I love replying to you because your knowledge is so superficial you sound like a parrot for the Church. You may not believe this but I really like you; you make me laugh and give some comic relief to this forum; so keep on keeping on and enjoy the precepts of men you have been taught and more importantly enjoy life as fast and hard as you can for it is short, then you will face God.

Oh you are right I an proud to boast in God; I realized a long time ago there was nothing in me worth boasting about, but being a new creation in Christ. like Paul i boast in the Lord!

Amen Brother Well said

The precepts of men that Jesus condemned are found in Protestantism.
His Church’s precepts and traditions were all guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15) - and that includes the canon of scripture you read and believe in.

**Wanna learn the faith? I really suggest you both read the Scriptures and the Early Church Fathers. **These are the champions of the faith who paved the way and spread the Gospel throughout the world - and they were ALL Catholic.

Remember - "To be steeped in history is to cease being Protestant."
I guess that would mean, “To refuse knowledge of history is to continue being Protestant” . . .

God bless.

 

[jpaul1953]

God bless you for the kind words and comments!

Hello Tanner 9188,

You are incredible. I’m starting to believe that you and the Holy Spirit are tight like ‘brothers’. You know everything. What ever is left out of the Bible you fill in in with your words of wisdom. James and Jude converted maybe when Jesus was resurrected. That’s a good one. Maybe, when Jesus brought Lazarus back or one of the other thousand miracles.

When Jesus said: " My mother and brothers and sisters are those who believe," his immediate family was outside looking for him according to your thought pattern.

Jesus knows the hearts and souls of all. I’m sure you agree with that. Mother Mary is with her children that are by your account younger than Jesus. It appears that maybe Mary’s kids were still under her care, looking for their older brother. Seems logical to me. The first born son of any family back then was like the second father. He was highly respected. These young kids/young adults were going to find their older brother doing what he does best, teach. Well, Jesus’ ministry was only a couple of years. These young (however young they were) were following instruction from Mommy or hanging out with Mom. They didn’t believe, as you say.

Within a short time, Jesus was crucified. John 19:26-27 - on the cross he said: " Woman, behold your son." Then He said to the disciple, " Behold your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. I think you as well as I believe this disciple to be young John, the only apostle at the foot of the cross and youngest of the apostles.

Well, if these kids were a bit younger than Jesus than they might still be young when Jesus is crucified. Who will tend to the brothers and sisters of Christ. Oh, because they didn’t believe, to Hell with them. So Mary just dumps her kids to now mothers John and vice versa. There’s another problem. Being the first born son , His younger siblings would be extremely respectful of him. Of course they would believe Him to be the Christ. Knocking out miracles. Bringing his buddy Lazaurus back from the dead. Jesus knew word would spread about this. This is why the head jews decided to definitely have Jesus killed. So his brothers and sisters knew about it. If your own friend performed miracles like the ones Jesus performed, you would believe in him. Wouldn’t you?

Or Mary with her adult children went to visit Jesus while he was teaching. So they might have been just a few years younger than Jesus. Well, in that case, they should have been old enough to take care of their mother themselves. And, obviously if they were older, then that was the case, they were taking care of momma while Jesus was out spreading His ministry. But Jesus with one of His last breaths decides to totally insult His adult brothers and sisters (because you say they are non- believers, based on the word brethren) and send his mother with the apostle John to Africa and then finish out her life in Ephesus, Turkey, never to see her kids again possibly. That sounds like a really selfish jewish mother. What a creep she must have been after her oldest son died. Nobody else mattered to her. It was all about her. I don’t believe this anymore than you do. She was chosen by God to be the Christ child’s mother. I’m sure God wanted his son to have the best mom, not just some regular mom. God did want His son to have any psychological problems from living with a wacky dysfunctional momma.

I don’t know about you, but this ‘brother and sister story’ is starting to have cracks in it. Don’t you think?

Paul calls both Timothy and Titus ‘His true child’. You don’t believe them to be his real children, do you? I don’t.

Christ gave the authority of the Church to Simon because Simon knew who Christ really was, the only apostle who knew. Christ gave him a new surname Kephas (aramaic for great rock) or Peter (Greek for petras meaning rock). Jesus says: Whatever you hold loosed on earth is held loosed in Heaven, whatever you hold bound on earth, is held bound in Heaven." This simply means that Simon Kephas, whatever you say with regards to my Church(not churches, just Church) is accepted by us in heaven. The first Pope, he was married to Perpetua and both died (Simon Kephas upside down crucified) in Rome. If Jesus came back during Simon Kephas’ lifetime, there would be no reason to pass the torch on as Jesus did, but Jesus didn’t. (Matt 16:15-20)

So be the Catholic Church, the one that states, by Jesus’ mouth, the truth, rules, regulations, dogma, doctrine, explanation of the Bible. All that and more because Jesus says so (1Tim 3:15 the Church-the pillar and foundation of the truth). Even all the way up to the first protesters, they believed in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Mother. By the way, the Bible you read is the accepted canons of the Church first put together complete by St Jerome around 390AD, not in the 1500’s like the one most protesters read. The Bible is a Catholic book. Catholics believe all that the Bible says. We just don’t agree with your fallable interpretation of the Bible.

You new guys believe that you and Holy Spirit got things worked out. It’s your explanation for all the Bible verses that the truth lies in, not the Church that Jesus built.

Read your Bible to learn, not to preach. The Truth will set you free. Free from your discrimination of Christ’s Church…the Catholic Church.

May God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit guide us daily.

jpaul1953

 

[jpaul1953]

The precepts of men that Jesus condemned are found in Protestantism.
His Church’s precepts and traditions were all guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15) - and that includes the canon of scripture you read and believe in.

Wanna learn the faith? I really suggest you both read the Scriptures and the Early Church Fathers. These are the champions of the faith who paved the way and spread the Gospel throughout the world - and they were ALL Catholic.

Remember - "To be steeped in history is to cease being Protestant."
**I guess that would mean, “**To refuse knowledge of history is to continue being Protestant” . . .

God bless.

Elvisman,

I like that analogy at the end . As Tony the Tiger says: " that’s Great…!

jpaul1953

 

[josie_L]

And you suffer from spiritual pride, my friend.

My beliefs are the very same beliefs that that have always been taught since the time of Christ.
I believe everything that ALL of the Apostles along with Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Cyril, Augustine, Aquinas and all of the other champions of the faith believed. You don’t. They were ALL Catholic, whereas you have chosen to rebel against God.

You have chosen to make up your own set of beliefs - or follow those of other spiritually prideful men. In short - you follow the traditions of men that Jesus condemned (Mark 7:9-13). That is precisely what happened at the Reformation and continues to splinter by the tens of thousands today.

We Catholics follow the traditions of the faith and the Apostles that Paul spoke of (2 Thess. 2:15, 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 12:14, 1 Tim. 3:15).
I’ll pray for you, friend.

I applaud you my friend, and keep up the good fight in the name of Christ’s church. :clapping:

 

[humble_in_doubt]

And you suffer from spiritual pride, my friend.

how is his pride or arrogance any different than yours, or my own pride or arrogance. You see me and other non-Catholic posters (even though most of them are theists) as arrogant, they see you as arrogant, and I see you as arrogant. Don’t worry though … you’re no more arrogant than mankind in general (it’s those who deny their natural ego who you really have to watch out for).

It’s kinda fun to watch the whose least arrogant competition. I’m proud to lose that one

 

[jpaul1953]

how is his pride or arrogance any different than yours, or my own pride or arrogance. You see me and other non-Catholic posters (even though most of them are theists) as arrogant, they see you as arrogant, and I see you as arrogant. Don’t worry though … you’re no more arrogant than mankind in general (it’s those who deny their natural ego who you really have to watch out for).

It’s kinda fun to watch the whose least arrogant competition. I’m proud to lose that one

Humble in Doubt,

Well, Mr Humility. The moment you believe you are less arrogant than others, you become more arrogant than others.

Just as the moment you believe Fredric Neitschke (spelt wrong), an existentialist, you believe you know more than us. Remember he went through his life miserably depressed. When I was in college, I lost some of my beliefs in the Catholic Church and God. I loved Fredric N and I felt just as lost as he was. I believed God was horrible to permit this world to hurt so many things. I later, through much spiritual thought, found out that God must allow it. He gives us free will. To change the world when and how He desires would be breaking His own rule. (He doesn’t want us to be forced to choose Him, He wants us to freely choose Him). Life is truly short. When it’s bad, it’s bad. But, eternity is forever. Nothing on earth as bad as it seems compares to an eternity of Love.

I hope , even though you don’t, while you are on your journey that you read the beliefs and teachings of the Church, outside of some of the horrible creatures that were in the hierarchy of the Church, the teachings of the Church are from Jesus and they are what He intended them to be.

When we have a bad President, it doesn’t destroy the position of President, it disgraces the Presidency, but the position reclaims itself when we elect a good president. That goes for the Church as well. Please give this some thought.

May God guide us all.

jpaul1953

 

[Tanner9188]

The precepts of men that Jesus condemned are found in Protestantism.
His Church’s precepts and traditions were all guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15) - and that includes the canon of scripture you read and believe in.

Wanna learn the faith? I really suggest you both read the Scriptures and the Early Church Fathers. These are the champions of the faith who paved the way and spread the Gospel throughout the world - and they were ALL Catholic.

Remember - "To be steeped in history is to cease being Protestant."
**I guess that would mean, “**To refuse knowledge of history is to continue being Protestant” . . .

God bless.

**Again; thanks for the comic relief, I really needed some today; you made my day. The early church fathers have names like James, Jude, Peter, John, Mark, Matthew and I read about Jesus through them. The nice thing is that they are all in one book to which the Author has an infinite mind, cannot lie, and always tells the truth. He had men, under His inspiration collect and test to see if they were authentic, then that same divine Author gave us what is known, in some circles, as the Living Word of God; able to change lives in a single reading. That same Author made it easy for those skimmers by putting a warning at the beginning ,refereed to as the OT and at the end, another warning about adding to His living Word. But some religious organizations have diverted from the cannon tests the Author inspired in men and have either added or subtracted from the Author’s intent. When they meet the Author, they will be without excuse and rightly so.

May God bless the reading, hearing and understanding of His word this day!**

 

[freedomwriter]

**Again; thanks for the comic relief, I really needed some today; you made my day. The early church fathers have names like James, Jude, Peter, John, Mark, Matthew and I read about Jesus through them. The nice thing is that they are all in one book to which the Author has an infinite mind, cannot lie, and always tells the truth. He had men, under His inspiration collect and test to see if they were authentic, then that same divine Author gave us what is known, in some circles, as the Living Word of God; able to change lives in a single reading. That same Author made it easy for those skimmers by putting a warning at the beginning ,refereed to as the OT and at the end, another warning about adding to His living Word. But some religious organizations have diverted from the cannon tests the Author inspired in men and have either added or subtracted from the Author’s intent. When they meet the Author, they will be without excuse and rightly so.

May God bless the reading, hearing and understanding of His word this day!**

It is scary to misrepresent God’s Word. Gal 1:6-9 says that if anyone teaches a different Gospel let him be accursed, meaning dedicated to destruction. James 3:1 says “let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgments.” Even to post threads and replys on here. There are some on here who cannot humble themselves to admit when they are wrong. You are right Tanner i would hate to be around when they meet the Author of the Bible.

 

[Mickey]

You are right Tanner i would hate to be around when they meet the Author of the Bible.

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

 

[Tanner9188]

how is his pride or arrogance any different than yours, or my own pride or arrogance. You see me and other non-Catholic posters (even though most of them are theists) as arrogant, they see you as arrogant, and I see you as arrogant. Don’t worry though … you’re no more arrogant than mankind in general (it’s those who deny their natural ego who you really have to watch out for).

It’s kinda fun to watch the whose least arrogant competition. I’m proud to lose that one

**
Isaiah 13:11
“Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.”

Psalms 14:1
“The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.”

2 Corinthians 10:17-18
“But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD. For it is not he who commends himself that is approved, but he whom the Lord commends.”**

 

[Tanner9188]

Hello Tanner, You are incredible. I’m starting to believe that you and the Holy Spirit are tight like ‘brothers’.

Good news; you are seeing the path! (EDITED for Space)

James and Jude converted maybe when Jesus was resurrected.

I would agree with the Biblical record, which implies that after the resurrection His blood brothers believed. EDITED FOR SPACE

Within a short time, Jesus was crucified. John 19:26-27 - on the cross he said: " Woman, behold your son." Then He said to the disciple, " Behold your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. HAD TO EDIT

** You are merely speculating; what does your Church teach you to say?**

EDITED FOR SPACE Of course they would believe Him to be the Christ. Knocking out miracles. Bringing his buddy Lazaurus back from the dead. Jesus knew word would spread about this. This is why the head jews decided to definitely have Jesus killed. So his brothers and sisters knew about it. If your own friend performed miracles like the ones Jesus performed, you would believe in him. Wouldn’t you?

John 7 "After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4 “For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be {known} publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him.”
Not only did they not believe in Him; they mocked Him! No one can believe or understand God unless they are chosen or called; the “calling” apparently had not happened until after His resurrection.

Or Mary with her adult children went to visit Jesus while he was teaching. So they might have been just a few years younger than Jesus. Well, in that case, they should have been old enough to take care of their mother themselves. EDITED FOR SPACE

I don’t know about you, but this ‘brother and sister story’ is starting to have cracks in it. Don’t you think?

** What does your Church tell you to say in regards to this; don’t answer we already know.**

Paul calls both Timothy and Titus ‘His true child’. You don’t believe them to be his real children, do you? I don’t.

Neither do I, because like the passages concerning His blood brothers; the context of this passage is easily understood.

Christ gave the authority of the Church to Simon because Simon knew who Christ really was, the only apostle who knew. Christ gave him a new surname Kephas (aramaic for great rock) Edited for space for post

Yawn, yawn - and more yawn. Who builds the church? Jesus Who stared the church? Jesus What tools does Jesus use in building His church? All men inspired and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. What role does Peter play? He was indwelt and is but one stone of the building, know as the “body” or “assebly” of the called or elect of whom? Christ Jesus. How is “pillar” described?
" {I write} so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

So be the Catholic Church, the one that states, by Jesus’ mouth, the truth, rules, regulations, dogma, doctrine, explanation of the Bible. All that and more because Jesus says so (1Tim 3:15 the Church-the pillar and foundation of the truth). Even all the way up to the first protesters, they believed in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Mother. By the way, the Bible you read is the accepted canons of the Church first put together complete by St Jerome around 390AD, not in the 1500’s like the one most protesters read. The Bible is a Catholic book. Catholics believe all that the Bible says. We just don’t agree with your fallable interpretation of the Bible.

You new guys believe that you and Holy Spirit got things worked out. It’s your explanation for all the Bible verses that the truth lies in, not the Church that Jesus built.
Read your Bible to learn, not to preach. The Truth will set you free. Free from your discrimination of Christ’s Church;the Catholic Church.
May God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit guide us daily.
jpaul1953

**You have really digressed; you now are starting to sound like Elvis…all you need now is to shorten the response and add some color and you will be there.

The reason the Holy Spirit is spoken of soo much; which you seem to think is over the top, but forgive if I have overstated that or put thoughts that were not yours; as you continuously do to me.

All believers, the true ones, are very tight with the Holy Spirit, so tight that He literally dwells inside of me. Can’t get much tighter than that. I wish (pray) you had that; then we would not have issues and would be united in “Spirit”; as Jesus says we are; that is all believers in spirit and truth.

I don’t know Freedomwriter at all, but I can discern he is of God; as a result he is my brother and I love him in Christ and I know he feels the same way about me. I also know that if we were to meet on earth; we would fell as though we new each other for a lifetime, but even if we never meet here on earth; we will know each other in heaven.

God bless the reading of His word and may God bless you!**