James, brother of Jesus

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OK.

But show me the data on the male name “Herod.”

And Josephus was no Christian, but SOMEONE told him that James was Jesus’ brother without qualifying it. So he went with it. No reason for him to do an investigation.

That should count for something.

And James was a famous man, being executed by an illegally convened Sanhedrin under the direction of Ananus’ son on A.D. 62.

High profile.

Antiquities was published in A.D. 93 or thereabouts.
 
Actually Matthew mentions three specific brothers by name and non named sisters:

Matthew 13:55
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
 
OK.

But show me the data on the male name “Herod.”
Before I leave again, I’ll just say this about ‘Herod’ (from Greek hērōs ‘hero’). It isn’t a widespread name like Salome, Mariam, Jacob/James or Joshua/Jesus. In the 1st century, the name is only attested (just going by Josephus) among the house of Herod and the pro-Roman ruling clique of Tiberias. The name is virtually unattested in the Diaspora - it was more widespread among gentiles than it is among Jews. (cf. Herodes Atticus)

You’ll generally notice a pattern during the second Temple period where the same names are recycled over and over again, especially within the family. In the Second Temple period, naming kids after one’s father or mother (patronymy/matronymy), grandparents (papponymy), or some ancestor was apparently the prevalent custom, especially among the ruling dynasties. So for example, within the Hasmonean dynasty the names Matityahu (Mattathias/Matthias/Matthew), Ye(ho)hanan (J(eh)ohanan/John), Yehudah (Judah/Judas), and Yonathan (Jonathan) - not coincidentally, the names of the Maccabees - are repeated in ten generations. (Although quite interestingly, the most common male name at the time - Shim(e)on - was not used by the Hasmoneans; only Simon Thassi, one of the four Maccabee brothers, has the name.) There’s also a house of Tubias (6th century BC-200 BC), where the name Tubias and the Greek name Hyrcanus are repeated in four generations, each individual being named after his grandfather.

You can also see the pattern among priestly houses. Among the Oniads, the reccurent names are Onias and Sim(e)on for six generations. In the Hanan (Ananus/Annas) family, the common names are Hanan - a repeated patronymy for three generations - and Matthias, after an uncle. In the Boethus family, the recurrent name is Shimeon son of Shimeon, while in the Phiabi family, it is Ishmael son of Ishmael. In fact, even Josephus’ family recycled the names Matityahu, Shimeon, and Y(eh)osef (Joseph = Josephus!) There’s a whole lot of other examples.

All in all, this practice pretty much explains why there are so many Herods in the Herodian dynasty (two other common male names within the Herods BTW are Joseph and Agrippa) even if the name itself wasn’t popular among outsiders.

There’s also the practice of making up female names from male ones (so Herodias from Herod, Alexandra from Alexander, or Yohanna (Joanna) from Yohanan), having double names (Salome-Alexandra, Miriam-Johana, Salona-Mariame), or using abbreviated forms of names (Mara from Martha, Yohanan from Yehohanan, Yeshu from Yeshua - in turn a contraction of Yehoshua).

Going by different sources (the NT, Josephus, ossuary inscriptions, the documents from the Judaean desert), the top ten most attested Jewish male names during the second Temple period are (in descending order): Shim(e)on/Simon, Y(eh)osef, Yehudah, Eleazar, Y(eh)ohanan, Ye(ho)shua, Matityahu, Y(eh)onathan, Hananiah (Ananias, with the variant Hanina), and Menahem. If you noticed, I’ve already mentioned most of these names above. They’re popular both because they were typical names of the Hasmonean dynasty, plus the custom of patronymy/papponymy. (If we’re gonna get biblical, while Ya’aqov (Jacob/James) is also occasionally found - it’s just after Menahem in terms of attestation - Abraham, Isaac and pretty much most of the other OT names are rare in the period.) As for female names, you have Shelamzion, Shalom (Salome), Mariam/Mariamme/Mariah (Miriam/Mary), Y(eh)ohana, and Shipra/Shapira. The majority of women used only eleven Hebrew names, and less than half the women had names in Aramaic, Greek, Latin, Persian or Nabatean.
 
The name Agrippa, of course, came into the Herod clan as Herod the Great wanted to show his great respect for Agrippa, the power behind Augustus.

Herod’s roots were mostly Arab, FWIW.

Thanks again, Patrick.
 
I know that in the Protoevangelium of James, Joseph is described as an older man, and more notably, a widower. Because of this, it could make sense for James and John to be Jesus’ stepbrothers, and Joseph’s sons from a previous marriage. Is this an acceptable Catholic opinion?
It is certainly an acceptable belief, albeit not a required one. The Protevangelium is non-Canonical, but it gives a very early (c. AD 150, give or take) picture of popular Christian piety at that time.
 
Theoretically possible but it doesn’t make sense to me. According to customs and traditions of those times step-children would take care of their step-mother.
As Jesus from the Cross entrusted Mary to John it would be highly unlikely Jesus had step brothers and sisters.
Was St. Joseph dead when Jesus was crucified? If not, why couldn’t Mary be entrusted to her husband?
 
the assumption is that Joseph was dead before Jesus began his public ministry based on the fact that he is not mentioned anywhere else.
 
Actually Matthew mentions three specific brothers by name and non named sisters:

Matthew 13:55
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
Funny - this quote being used , Then without any doubt or qualifications - would you say that Jospeh is the father of Jesus? - as Jesus is listed as his “son” … :banghead:

No where does this passage list the named children as Mary’s offspring …

In fact - there is a separation of Mary and Joseph with a difference in how their relationship is accounted for , one by occupation - Jesus is the ‘carpenter’s’ son … the other ‘naming’ his mother - “Mary”

Then comes the listing of the brothers and sisters- these ‘kinsfolk’ - none of which are tied to either Joseph [the carpenter] nor Mary [by name] directly … they could be relatives [blood or by marriage and even other then siblings], childhood friends, neighbors from the same village or area, and even followers/disciples of Jesus … and any combination of the above … the passage is not that definitive in its construction - as it would be if the passage purpose and context was the paternity of Jesus and/ or the perpetual virginity of Mary … but it was how people disregard ‘prophets’ by familiarity … does one think that Jesus could not really work a miracle there? He is God - of course he could - but the people were blinded because he was the kid from down the street … now you are using the passage solely to determine whether two people engaged in sexual relations that resulted in children :rolleyes:
 
Actually Matthew mentions three specific brothers by name and non named sisters:

Matthew 13:55
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
It is Catholic doctrine that Mary was a perpetual virgin.

The Koine Greek word for brother, adelphos (Strong’s word #80), and its female counterpart, adelphe (Strong’s word #79), can mean any number of relationships, from cousin to step-sibling to friend to even co-religionist. It does not necessarily connote two shared parents, or even one, for that matter.
 
One of the reasons that the name “Herod” was not common was that he was not Jewish.

Herod practiced Judaism, as many Edomites and Nabateans had been commingled with the Jews and adopted their customs. These “Judaized” Edomites were not considered Jewish by the dominant Pharisaic tradition, so even though Herod may have considered himself of the Jewish faith, he was not considered Jewish by the observant and nationalist Jews of Judea. A loyal supporter of Hyrcanus II, Antipater appointed Herod governor of Galilee at 25, and his elder brother, Phasael, governor of Jerusalem. He enjoyed the backing of Rome but his brutality was condemned by the Sanhedrin.

His atrocities toward children in Bethlehem were not numerous because Bethlehem was only a village. Only about 5 to 10 babies would have been put to the sword.
 
Herod’s mother was a full-blooded Nabotean.

Herod’s great-grandfather converted to Judaism under force of exile or death.

Herod himself quickly married into the Asamonean royal family to gain legitimacy when Rome affirmed his status.

Herod’s Royal biographer and friend Nicolaus did not mention the baby-killing. But even Josephus says that Nicolaus was an apologist. How could any infanticide be justified?

Hagan’s “Year of the Passover” deals with this and is a good read.
 
Herod’s mother was a full-blooded Nabotean.

Herod’s great-grandfather converted to Judaism under force of exile or death.

Herod himself quickly married into the Asamonean royal family to gain legitimacy when Rome affirmed his status.

Herod’s Royal biographer and friend Nicolaus did not mention the baby-killing. But even Josephus says that Nicolaus was an apologist. How could any infanticide be justified?

Hagan’s “Year of the Passover” deals with this and is a good read.
Herod murdered several people, including both of his wives, his second wife’s mother, and his two half-brothers, among others. Although Herod had wanted to kill all the babies in Bethlehem, thus prompting the flight of Jesus’ family to Egypt, no record of this has been recorded.
 
Josephus reports on the robbing of David’s tomb that ended badly for Herod the Great with an explosion and loss of life.

Josephus specifically said also that Nicolaus did NOT report it because it would have reflected badly on the King.

If anyone would kill babies, it would be Herod. He killed three of his sons!
 
Then why would Josephus call James a brother of Jesus, then?

At the crucifixion, James might have been elsewhere, like home in Nazareth.
Jesus might well have been concerned that his mother get back to Nazareth safely. John was was at the crucifixion scene, James was not.

Salome was a common name in the hated Herod family. It was not likely that the common Jews would name their children Salome. How many common Jews names any sons “Herod?!”
Because the Greek word used and translated as Brother is adelphos. What people try todo is force a strict interpretation of that word as meaning a sibling brother. But scripture is clear that the word adelphos has a wider generic meaning. For instance Jesus tells Peter that He [Jesus] has prayed for him and then tells Peter to strengthen his brethern. The word translated as brethern is adelphoi which is the plural of adelphos. The ‘brethern’ Jesus is referring to here are the other apostles. But only one apostle, Andrew, was Peter’s actual brother. Again Jesus tells Mary Magdalene to tell His brothers Adelphoi], meaning the apostles, to follow Him to Galilee. Are we to believe all of the apostles were Jesus siblings? There are other examples in scripture where the word adelphos/adelphoi is used to indicate a relationship other than that of a sibling brother. Therefore to insist on a strict meaning of sibling does violence to the scriptures.
 
I see your point.

But getting back to Josephus, I doubt he used the Gospels as sources for his Antiquities. He may have, but I don’t think so.

Josephus either heard James’ execution first hand, or from Jews who were witnesses, or from the records of Imperial Rome.

And Josephus uses the word “brother” in the traditional sense referring to the relationship between James and Jesus.
 
I see your point.

But getting back to Josephus, I doubt he used the Gospels as sources for his Antiquities. He may have, but I don’t think so.

Josephus either heard James’ execution first hand, or from Jews who were witnesses, or from the records of Imperial Rome.

And Josephus uses the word “brother” in the traditional sense referring to the relationship between James and Jesus.
Josephus wrote in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. The word for “brother” in all those languages does not entail two, or even one, shared parent(s).
 
I think you are reaching here.

Brother in the Josephus context would at least mean a shared father.

The point is that however Josephus got his information, that is how he interpreted it.
 
I think you are reaching here.

Brother in the Josephus context would at least mean a shared father.

The point is that however Josephus got his information, that is how he interpreted it.
Mind proving that the way Josephus uses the word necessitates a shared father?
 
Proving?

Men were dominant then. He called Antipas and Philip brothers and they shared a father in Herod the Great.

It was relatively rare for a woman to have children from two different men.

I’m through with this.
 
Proving?

Men were dominant then. He called Antipas and Philip brothers and they shared a father in Herod the Great.

It was relatively rare for a woman to have children from two different men.

I’m through with this.
I am contending that it is possible that Josephus wasn’t even implying even one shared parent.
 
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