James the "brother" of Jesus?

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frankdinovo

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It’s amazing how many Catholics can not defend the perpetual virginity of our Blessed Mother. Does a Catholic (or no-Catholic) ever mention to you that they believe James is the brother of Jesus because of Matthew 12:46. (“Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James and Joseph and Judas and Simon?”) If so, contact me and I will send you a chart. (I would have attached the chart as a file, but I could not get the attach file menu to work).
frankdinovo@hotmail.com
 
There is the belief, found in the Protoevangelium of James, that he was the son of St. Joseph who was an elderly widower.

This book also tells us the names of the Blessed Virgin’s parents, Joachim and Anna, tells us of the Nativity and the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin, and the miracle of the budding rod (why St. Joseph is shown with a budding rod in paintings)

wga.hu/art/r/rosso/1/8marria.jpg

In this picture by Raphael, an angry suiter is breaking his rod:

artchive.com/artchive/r/raphael/raphael_sposalizio.jpg

The book dates from around AD 150.
 
Wrong board. Head to apologetics. This issue has been debated, if you’re genuinely interested in learning why we CAN defend it.
 
Protestant Reformers on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

Luther:

Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
{Luther’s Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }

Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that** ‘brothers’ really mean ‘cousins’ here**, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.
{Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }

A **new lie **about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, **the mother of God, was not a virgin either before **or after the birth of Christ . . .
{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:199 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }

Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . .

When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.

{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:206,212-3 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }

John Calvin:

Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s ‘brothers’ are sometimes mentioned.
{Harmony of Matthew, Mark & Luke, sec. 39 (Geneva, 1562), vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, tr. William Pringle, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55}

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called ‘first-born’; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107}

Under the word **‘brethren’ the Hebrews include all cousins **and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, (7:3) }

Zwingli:

‘Fidei expositio,’ the last pamphlet from his pen . . . There is a special insistence upon the perpetual virginity of Mary.
{G. R. Potter, Zwingli, London: Cambridge Univ. Press, 1976, pp.88-9,395 / The Perpetual Virginity of Mary . . ., Sep. 17, 1522}

Zwingli had printed in 1524 a sermon on ‘Mary, ever virgin, mother of God.’
{Thurian, ibid., p.76}

I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonourable, impious, unworthy or evil . . . I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.
{Thurian, ibid., p.76 / same sermon}

Heinrich Bullinger:

‘The Virgin Mary . . . completely sanctified by the grace and blood of her only Son and abundantly endowed by the gift of the Holy Spirit and preferred to all . . . now lives happily with Christ in heaven and is called and remains ever-Virgin and Mother of God.’

{In Hilda Graef, Mary: A history of Doctrine and Devotion, combined ed. of vols. 1 & 2, London: Sheed & Ward, 1965, vol.2, pp.14-5}
 
Well, If James is supposed to be Jesus’ brother, then we have to investigate this a little.

We know that Jesus was Mary’s first-born son. This means if Mary gave birth to James after Jesus was born, James would have to be younger.

However, Epiphanius of Salamis (315-403 AD) wrote in the Panarion (also known as Adversus Haereses, 377 A.D.) that James was 96 years old when he was martyred in 62 AD.

This means James was 34 years old when Jesus was born.

Ergo, there is no way that James could’ve been Jesus younger brother.

Further, Eusebius also calls James “the Lord’s brother”, but specifically identifies him as "the son of Joseph; not of Mary.

Conclusion? James was Jesus’ step-brother from Joseph’s previous marriage.
 
This is the Scripture used by the Eastern Churches on Mary’s Virginity, that she had no other children.

Ezekiel Chapter 44

1
Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, facing the east; but it was closed.
2
He said to me: This gate is to remain closed; it is not to be opened for anyone to enter by it; since the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered by it, it shall remain closed.
3
1 Only the prince may sit down in it to eat his meal in the presence of the LORD. He must enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and leave by the same way.
 
Protestant Reformers on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

Luther:

Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
{Luther’s Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }

Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that** ‘brothers’ really mean ‘cousins’ here**, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.
{Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }

A **new lie **about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, **the mother of God, was not a virgin either before **or after the birth of Christ . . .
{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:199 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }

Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . .

When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.

{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:206,212-3 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }

John Calvin:

Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s ‘brothers’ are sometimes mentioned.
{Harmony of Matthew, Mark & Luke, sec. 39 (Geneva, 1562), vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, tr. William Pringle, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55}

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called ‘first-born’; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107}

Under the word **‘brethren’ the Hebrews include all cousins **and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.
{Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, (7:3) }

Zwingli:

‘Fidei expositio,’ the last pamphlet from his pen . . . There is a special insistence upon the perpetual virginity of Mary.
{G. R. Potter, Zwingli, London: Cambridge Univ. Press, 1976, pp.88-9,395 / The Perpetual Virginity of Mary . . ., Sep. 17, 1522}

Zwingli had printed in 1524 a sermon on ‘Mary, ever virgin, mother of God.’
{Thurian, ibid., p.76}

I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonourable, impious, unworthy or evil . . . I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.
{Thurian, ibid., p.76 / same sermon}

Heinrich Bullinger:

‘The Virgin Mary . . . completely sanctified by the grace and blood of her only Son and abundantly endowed by the gift of the Holy Spirit and preferred to all . . . now lives happily with Christ in heaven and is called and remains ever-Virgin and Mother of God.’

{In Hilda Graef, Mary: A history of Doctrine and Devotion, combined ed. of vols. 1 & 2, London: Sheed & Ward, 1965, vol.2, pp.14-5}
Wow, that really says it all, doesn’t it?👍

I’m amazed on how insistent certain protestants, mostly fundamentalists, are on claiming that Mary was not ever-virgin. It’s one thing that I will never understand, but that’s what happens when you disregard history.
 
The idea that St. James is the son of St. Joseph from a previous marriage is the TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC theory.
 
Well, If James is supposed to be Jesus’ brother, then we have to investigate this a little.

We know that Jesus was Mary’s first-born son. This means if Mary gave birth to James after Jesus was born, James would have to be younger.

However, Epiphanius of Salamis (315-403 AD) wrote in the Panarion (also known as Adversus Haereses, 377 A.D.) that James was 96 years old when he was martyred in 62 AD.

This means James was 34 years old when Jesus was born.

Ergo, there is no way that James could’ve been Jesus younger brother.

Further, Eusebius also calls James “the Lord’s brother”, but specifically identifies him as "the son of Joseph; not of Mary.

Conclusion? James was Jesus’ step-brother from Joseph’s previous marriage.
who is Joseph’s previous marriage… what her name?? One more Question. how many children that joseph with his previous wife. ??
 
The real question is, how come Mary was walking around with Jesus and didn’t stay home if her husband was still alive and Jesus had brothers… 🤷
 
Well, If James is supposed to be Jesus’ brother, then we have to investigate this a little.

We know that Jesus was Mary’s first-born son. This means if Mary gave birth to James after Jesus was born, James would have to be younger.

However, Epiphanius of Salamis (315-403 AD) wrote in the Panarion (also known as Adversus Haereses, 377 A.D.) that James was 96 years old when he was martyred in 62 AD.

This means James was 34 years old when Jesus was born.

Ergo, there is no way that James could’ve been Jesus younger brother.

Further, Eusebius also calls James “the Lord’s brother”, but specifically identifies him as "the son of Joseph; not of Mary.

Conclusion? James was Jesus’ step-brother from Joseph’s previous marriage.
That’s good stuff!
 
The real question is, how come Mary was walking around with Jesus and didn’t stay home if her husband was still alive and Jesus had brothers… 🤷
Or why Jesus, while hanging on the cross, gave His mother over to the care of His disciple John…why would He do that, if she had other children to take care of her?
 
who is Joseph’s previous marriage… what her name?? One more Question. how many children that joseph with his previous wife. ??
According to a tradition I heard, St. Joseph’s first wife was named Salome.

I think all the “brothers and sisters” were St. Joseph’s children.

I can’t find the source, give me some time.
 
Or why Jesus, while hanging on the cross, gave His mother over to the care of His disciple John…why would He do that, if she had other children to take care of her?
They weren’t her children.

And they had children of their own to take care of.

This notion that St. Joseph was a young guy who was never married is an extremely modern theory. I think it is one that Pope John Paul II made up. The TRADITIONAL (this is the Traditional Catholic Forum right?) story is that St. Joseph was an elderly widower.

Read the Protoevangelium of James. AD 150
 
Or why Jesus, while hanging on the cross, gave His mother over to the care of His disciple John…why would He do that, if she had other children to take care of her?
They weren’t her children.

And they had children of their own to take care of.

This notion that St. Joseph was a young guy who was never married is an extremely modern theory. **I think it is one that Pope John Paul II made up. **The TRADITIONAL (this is the Traditional Catholic Forum right?) story is that St. Joseph was an elderly widower.

Read the Protoevangelium of James. AD 150
CUZ ST. JOSEPH WAS DEAD!!!:banghead:
Volodymyr, You don’t know Wolseley, he is agreeing with you, he is offering another reason for Mary not having other children.

As for the bolded above, do you think or have a source for your statement on JP II?
 
From Gal 1:

17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus. 18Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days. 19I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.
So does this mean the apostle James was literally the blood brother of Jesus?
Lets check some other Scripture and see, Mark 3:16These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter 17 James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder); 18Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas,** James son of Alphaeus**, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot 19and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Did you catch that? There were two apostles named James, but neither of them had a father named Joseph. Thus it is clear that the term “brother” is not necessarily a literal blood brother, but such a relation can, and in this case did, extend to cousins as it is clear from Gal 1:19.

The Gal 1:19 argument in my opinion is the strongest.
 
They weren’t her children.

And they had children of their own to take care of.

This notion that St. Joseph was a young guy who was never married is an extremely modern theory. I think it is one that Pope John Paul II made up. The TRADITIONAL (this is the Traditional Catholic Forum right?) story is that St. Joseph was an elderly widower.

Read the Protoevangelium of James. AD 150
That’s precisely what Gandalf and I are saying, Volodymyr. Joseph was a middle-aged man who was more or less elected to be Mary’s guardian; she was probably a girl of about 15 years old.

We were making the point that these questions are the ones that need to be addressed to the people that frankdinovo was discussing in the OP.
 
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