James White and the others

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Fidelis:
This isn’t quite true. Here is the entry on the Jesuits in the Catholic Encyclopedia:
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Yup–I got the chronology backwards. Thanks. 😉
 
if only white would stop debating debates with people like Rutland or Michuta and debate he knows are against people he knows he can win against because they as highly trained in theology as others.

That’s the real reason he wont debate Sungenis, because he knows he has met his match in Sungenis. Sungenis strikes fear in the reformed camp, because they know that the traditional understanding of Catholicism when proclaimed under the anointing of the Holy Spirit can touch the hardest heart, has the Lord wills.

OH Mr.White we are all fed up with your pathetic excuses why you wont debate Sungenis anymore, stop making excuses.

As for you Svendsen why dont you just accept that although Matatics was a bit of a space cadet on the dividing line when you spoke on the perputal virginity he more then answered your poor arguments and that’s why you were so quiet for the rest of the show and left white to do damage limitation by asking any irrelevant matter he could think of to cover up for your poor showing…

James White and Eric Svendsen, stop putting of joining the true Church. Face it there is no home like Rome…
🙂 😃
 
Tim Prescott:
OH Mr.White we are all fed up with your pathetic excuses why you wont debate Sungenis anymore, stop making excuses.
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Is James really refusing to debate Sungenis? Where can one view his excuses? James always acknowledges when others refuse him, but I wasn’t really aware of his refusals to Sungenis.

Peace
 
Do you think that James White has posted here on the forums before? Does anyone like Hanhn or Dave Armstrong ever post here?
 
I had never heard of Rutland before the debate with James White. Is he a well-known Catholic Apologist? It seems that I would have heard of him before since I visit several apologetics sites on the web. Does he have a web site? Can someone give me some information regarding his apostolate?

MP
 
Michael Paul:
I had never heard of Rutland before the debate with James White. Is he a well-known Catholic Apologist? It seems that I would have heard of him before since I visit several apologetics sites on the web. Does he have a web site? Can someone give me some information regarding his apostolate?

MP
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I first heard of him a few months ago from this site. You can download the full debate transcript at the bottom.
 
Is it just me or can you see all of the holes in the protestants arguments against the Catholic Church? The bible is divinely inspired. True, but where oh where did it come from? Thats right!! The Catholic Church, the Divine institution which is Christs’ immaculate bride. It is so funny how they always overlook that!! 😃
 
“I first heard of him a few months ago from this site. You can download the full debate transcript at the bottom.”

Thanks, but I was looking for information on Rutland himself and could not find the debate with White on the site. I guess Rutland is a relative unknown. Right?

MP
 
michaelgazin said:
bringyou.to/apologetics/s2.htm – This page has some audio links and some articles by her…including her letter to her brother after he gave her a final “goodbye.”

Here is the letter: bringyou.to/apologetics/s17.htm
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Wow, that letter made me both laugh and cry – all in about 500 words! The picture painted of him stomping off with his hands over his ears is hilarious, but the tone of the whole letter carries such sadness.

Sounds like she’s going to be a prayer warrior for him, though, so there is still hope.

Peace,
javelin
 
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javelin:
Wow, that letter made me both laugh and cry – all in about 500 words! The picture painted of him stomping off with his hands over his ears is hilarious, but the tone of the whole letter carries such sadness.

Sounds like she’s going to be a prayer warrior for him, though, so there is still hope.

Peace,
javelin
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I agree it made my wife and I both very sad. I also read Patty’s conversion story. That was awesome. Oh how it would be awesome if Mr. White converted too.
 
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michaelgazin:
So would everyone agree that www.aomin.org is probably the protestant equivalent to www.catholic.com …or at least close to it? So why is it when you come to Catholic Answers website, you get lists of Catholic beliefs and why we believe them, but when you go to James White’s site and others similar, all you get is a list of other people’s faiths and why you shouldn’t belive them? Alpha and Omega Ministries is so concerned with other people’s faith, that they can never seem to get around to simply explaining “this is what we believe and why”…without putting down another faith to do so. It is so overboard, that even on Mr. White’s trip to Rome, he had to update his blog to let people know how repulsive the Vatican is, even aside from faith. He critiqued statues and the marble material of certain structures. If you ask me, I think this is a perfect example of Inferiority Complex.

inferiority complex

n. A persistent sense of inadequacy or a tendency to self-diminishment, sometimes resulting in excessive aggressiveness through overcompensation

inferiority complex

n : a sense of personal inferiority arising from conflict between the desire to be noticed and the fear of being humiliated

inferiority complex

In psychology, a complexor cluster of repressed fears, described by Alfred Adler, based on physical inferiority. The term is popularly used to describe general feelings of inferiority and the overcompensation that often ensues.

After all…if James White converted to Catholicism…who would he debate? How would he earn a living?
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The reason Fundies can’t just state what they believe is that all Fundies don’t believe the same things. Fundies make up their beliefs as they go along. They conform Scripture to their own beliefs. They also change their beliefs when they feel like it. For example, you could have a Fundie who doesn’t believe in divorce and re-marriage, but when he wants to dump his wife to marry someone else, he now accepts divorce and remarriage and conforms Scripture to his newfound belief.
Fundies also attack the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is the only church that has the four marks - One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Deep down Fundies know this, but they don’t want to submit to an authority. Why submit to Pope Benedict XVI when you have made yourself your own pope? It all goes back to the sin of Lucifer - I WILL NOT SERVE!
 
Greetings everyone.
I couldn’t help but notice an awful lot of attention given to Dr. White. I do not have the time to become engaged in any debates with anyone, so I will not be posting my own opinions or any arguments. However, I would like to provide a bit of context to some of what is being said.
Rather than quote each member’s comments, I’ll just go through in order, naming the poster for the material I’m responding to.

First of all, Michaelgazin, you mention James’ comments regarding the statues etc. in the Vatican. His criticisms of these artifices was rooted in the fact that the Medieval Roman Church built these monuments using funds gained from selling indulgences to impoverished, ignorant, and superstitious peasants.

Second, Alpha and Omega’s primary purpose is to explain and defend the Reformed (read biblical) conception of the gospel. This does not make Dr. White an anti-Catholic any more than it makes Karl Keating an anti-Protestant. You erect a double standard by asserting that if White disagrees with Rome he is attacking, but if your apologists disagree with Protestants then they are defending.

Third, Alpha and Omega is quite a small ministry. Though White does support himself through this ministry, it is unfair to insinuate that his sole purpose is to make money. He could be much more successful at that if that were his desire. Also, not all of A&O’s attention is given to RC issues. Even if White apostatized to Rome he could still debate Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. and thus, “make a living.” Your argument is fallacious and deceitful.

And Della, you claim that White complained of idolatry. Please see my first point above (to Michaelgazin).

Christy-Beth, You do not do this, but I would like to point out that it would be most unfair and inaccurate to associate White and Chick. Jack Chick does constantly misrepresent Rome. Say what you will about James White, but he tries to be fair and accurate. Roman apologists generally regard him as the most thoughtful “anti-Catholic” apologist in America.

Scylla, you claim that there is too much disunity among Protestants. This is true. However, there are still varying and strongly held differences of opinion among Roman Catholics.

RyanL, you can see James White’s response to the Patty Bond’s incidents here aomin.org/Luke1251.html Please realize that Patty never contacted White until after she had essentially made up her mind about Rome. She only anonymously interacted with him at first, and she has acknowledged that she did not listen to any of his debates with Roman Catholics in their entirety before she converted. It’s not as if she gave him a “fair chance” and found his arguments unconvincing.
Also see straitgate.com/jw102602.ram
And straitgate.com/jw021602.ram
The first responds to her chapter in Surprised by Truth
The second, I believe responds to the conversion story you’ve posted.
You might still disagree with White, but you should at least hear from his side what happened.

Catholic Dude, I’m sorry to see you’ve been unable to accept Dr. White’s invitations to call into the Dividing Line. I’m sure he’d still love to hear from you. The show is at 11:00 MST on Tuesdays and 4:00 on Thursdays. There’s a tollfree number to call 1-877-753-3341 I do hope to hear your (name removed by moderator)ut sometime soon. In any case, regarding Patty Bonds and “sticking close with her brother please see my response to RyanL. BTW, Mrs. Bonds had been out of contact with the family for a few years before any of this happened.

TimPrescott, Rutland requested to debate White, not vice-versa. It’s not as if James is seeking out the weakest links in Catholic apologetics and refusing to interact with any others.

Well, that about covers the misrepresentations, one sided examples, and whatnot that I remember now. Whatever you people decide after this is entirely your business. I just wanted to offer a little bit of perspective for you.

God Bless

SEMPEREFORMANDA

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SEMPEREFORMANDA:
Greetings everyone.
I couldn’t help but notice an awful lot of attention given to Dr. White. I do not have the time to become engaged in any debates with anyone, so I will not be posting my own opinions or any arguments. However, I would like to provide a bit of context to some of what is being said…
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Thank you for your comments SEMPEREFORMANDA…I do have respect for your coming here to post, and correct any possible misrepresentations in a genuinely hospitable manner.

Peace,
Michael
 
And thank you for your cordial reply, Michael.

To be honest I was very unsure of what the response to my post would be.

It is nice to see that even though we have very serious matters, some of them of eternal significance dividing us, that we can still interact like respectful adults.

God Bless
 
michaelgazin said:
bringyou.to/apologetics/s2.htm – This page has some audio links and some articles by her…including her letter to her brother after he gave her a final “goodbye.”

Here is the letter: bringyou.to/apologetics/s17.htm
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This letter struck me as terribly sad. I gather from it that James White was the one that first decided to end their relationship and that this is her response. How horrible. If my brother annoucned that he was becoming Muslim and moving to Saudi Arabia, I would not cut off contact. There isn’t much that he could do that would make me want to stop speaking to him. I can’t understand how James White would let his opposition to the Catholic church influence his relationship to his sister. WHy not just agree to disagree?
 
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deb1:
This letter struck me as terribly sad. I gather from it that James White was the one that first decided to end their relationship and that this is her response. How horrible. If my brother annoucned that he was becoming Muslim and moving to Saudi Arabia, I would not cut off contact. There isn’t much that he could do that would make me want to stop speaking to him. I can’t understand how James White would let his opposition to the Catholic church influence his relationship to his sister. WHy not just agree to disagree?
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Please listen to this file straitgate.com/jw102602.ram
In it White explains what motivated his “goodbye” to his sister (her hints at litigation). He also goes through the letter and responds to it.

Mrs. Bonds’ posting that letter in a public forum is somewhat dishonest. All that anyone has to go on is her response. We have no idea what she is responding to, other than that it is a letter that ended goodbye and addressed her as Mrs. Bonds. She should have also posted his letter. (Of course to do so would make it a little harder to represent herself as the poor concerned sister of a mean, closed minded man who got so angry that he simply will not speak to her anymore.)

Again, whatever you decide about Dr. White’s decisions regarding his sister, you should at least hear his side too.
 
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SEMPEREFORMANDA:
Please listen to this file straitgate.com/jw102602.ram
In it White explains what motivated his “goodbye” to his sister (her hints at litigation). He also goes through the letter and responds to it.

Mrs. Bonds’ posting that letter in a public forum is somewhat dishonest. All that anyone has to go on is her response. We have no idea what she is responding to, other than that it is a letter that ended goodbye and addressed her as Mrs. Bonds. She should have also posted his letter. (Of course to do so would make it a little harder to represent herself as the poor concerned sister of a mean, closed minded man who got so angry that he simply will not speak to her anymore.)

Again, whatever you decide about Dr. White’s decisions regarding his sister, you should at least hear his side too.
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The talk is about an hour long, but I would advise everyone on this site to read this link. I am listening to it as I speak. Only 10 to 11 minutes into his talk, Dr. White says that people who convert to the Catholic Church are shallow and emotional.:hmmm: Please listen. I am also surprised at how often he calls her Ms. Bonds(is that the correct spelling of her name) instead of my sister. He criticzes her for going public with her conversion. Again, everyone take time to listen to this.
 
I thought about my above response and perhaps I was not charitable to the man. Even though I think that he is completely off base with his beliefs I suppose that from his point of view his sister has betrayed and hurt him. So, I will pray for his ability to heal his relationship with his sis. I have a younger brother and it would kill me to be seperated from him. I have heard that he is a very skilled debater but he comes off condescending in his radio talk. Perhaps that is the root of his problem with his sister? It can sometimes be more difficult to carry on nonemotional, resonable discussions with family members and loved ones, maybe that is what I am hearing in this particular radio talk. I will pray for them both.
 
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