Jealousy & Marriage

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Well, it looks like you’re already working on it and you know where to start and where to go from there. As I see it from here, please don’t understand me wrong - I certainly don’t want to suggest slowing down in your efforts - contrary, keep them up - but make sure you do it because you love her and not because you’re walking on eggshells to avoid a problem. If I were in your shoes - and supposing I’d be able to stay calm like that, which I’m not really sure of - I’d probably try to give that other person the impulse to meet me halfway.
 
*The interesting thing about threads such as these told by a male, is that if this was being told to us by a woman, we’d dub the husband…emotionally abusive, to a degree. I don’t know your wife, Gordon, but as this thread has continued, it seems she needs counseling–JUST GOING ON WHAT YOU SAY HERE. Now there are two sides to every story, it would be nice to hear hers. :o But taking for what you say as face-value, I think no matter what you do, she will continue to be insecure. Insecurity is an inward problem, and only the person with the insecurity issues can overcome it. You can’t cure your wife of this. You CAN mitigate anything that might contribute to her insecurity growing worse, but really…from what you say here, you have tried to be attentive, accomodating, complimentary…it seems to be falling flat. She needs help. I pray for her, that she overcomes this. Jealousy, and insecurity can really zap the true joy from a marriage.

Prayers for your marriage to grow stronger, and for your wife to heal from whatever it is that has been ailing her. I don’t suspect it’s you. I have a hunch that somewhere in her life, she encountered a man, whether it be her dad, or an old bf, or someone, who really impacted her self worth in a negative way. Just a hunch, but people are not THIS insecure for no reason. Just my few cents worth. *
 
Well, it looks like you’re already working on it and you know where to start and where to go from there. As I see it from here, please don’t understand me wrong - I certainly don’t want to suggest slowing down in your efforts - contrary, keep them up - but make sure you do it because you love her and not because you’re walking on eggshells to avoid a problem. If I were in your shoes - and supposing I’d be able to stay calm like that, which I’m not really sure of - I’d probably try to give that other person the impulse to meet me halfway.
Early in our marriage I think that some of the efforts I made were done mainly to avoid problems and the headaches that came with them. I think that’s part of why a lot of our little issues turned into big problems, and the big problems never seemed to get any better. With a little age and experience, I began to approach them from the perspective of wanting to make us both happier and to strengthen our marriage, which helped out a lot. Having our daughters helped out a lot, too, because it showed me just how boundless love can truly be (that also helped me make huge leaps as a parent). One thing that worries me is that my wife sometimes still tackles problems from a self-centered perspective (as in wanting to make things better/easier for her and not to resolve them for the sake of the family). I approach that as delicately as possible so that it doesn’t sound as though I’m accusing her of selfishness, even if that’s how she usually takes it.

Whatevergirl, one of the biggest struggles I’ve faced is her past issues and the laundry list of people who have treated her bad (not only ex-boyfriends and family members but people like the close friend who didn’t like the fact that my positive influence got her to quit smoking and cut out most of the drinking & partying (which led to her having a healthier, more positive outlook, but also led to her seeing that friend less often) so she invited my wife to a “party” consisting mostly of their ex-boyfriends where the intention was to get her drunk & gang rape her…I showed up in the proverbial nick of time and had to drag her out with one arm while holding an empty gin bottle in the other). When she gets to feeling that I might start treating her like one of them had, all I can really do is be as loving and supportive as possible and try to reassure her that, since I haven’t acted like that in the last 18+ years, I’m probably not going to do it in the future.

I don’t believe that most of her actions are done in a hurtful manner, but are mostly reactions based on defense mechanisms she built up in the past. I often pray for the strength to keep that in mind when things turn bad, and for the most part I do quite well. I’ve worked on the things that I do that I know are a problem in these situations and have gotten them under control for the most part (i.e. talking down to her, losing my temper). The way I see it, I can either lose my temper/patience and add to the problem, or keep my cool and ride out the storm and hope to make things better. While we’d gotten to the point where we were having daily arguments, they’re much less common now, averaging about once a month.

Although some of what I’ve said may make it sound as though things aren’t improving much, they’ve actually gotten much better over the last year. As odd as it may sound, and something that just helps to reinforce the notion that God moves in mysterious ways, the thing that’s helped more than anything else is our miscarriage. I’ve said before that it brought us closer together, but it also let my wife see a side of these friends she’d been suspicious of previously that she’d not seen or had ignored before. They showed the kind of genuine concern that we failed to get from a lot of our family, and when my wife was finally able to read their notes and emails she was able to see why I was so glad I’d kept in touch with some of them.

I honestly believe we’re on the right path, and that we’re not too far off from being where we need to be. It just feels at times as though we’re missing some key ingredient or step that we need to get us there.
 
Although some of what I’ve said may make it sound as though things aren’t improving much, they’ve actually gotten much better over the last year. As odd as it may sound, and something that just helps to reinforce the notion that God moves in mysterious ways, the thing that’s helped more than anything else is our miscarriage. I’ve said before that it brought us closer together, but it also let my wife see a side of these friends she’d been suspicious of previously that she’d not seen or had ignored before. They showed the kind of genuine concern that we failed to get from a lot of our family, and when my wife was finally able to read their notes and emails she was able to see why I was so glad I’d kept in touch with some of them.

I honestly believe we’re on the right path, and that we’re not too far off from being where we need to be. It just feels at times as though we’re missing some key ingredient or step that we need to get us there.
Well that’s good. NOT the miscarriage of course but the fact that it allowed some better communication to pass between the two of you. Maybe one thing you could do is just don’t dismiss her feelings and concerns so quickly. Don’t so quickly assume that she’s wrong or she’s being unreasonable. (It’s sort of what I’ve been saying all along lol.)

Her feelings matter, even if you don’t agree with them or you think she’s being unreasonable. Her feelings and her wants/needs are worthy of consideration.
 
Her feelings matter, even if you don’t agree with them or you think she’s being unreasonable. Her feelings and her wants/needs are worthy of consideration.
One thing I try not to do is discount her wants & feelings. However, I also try to balance them against what I truly believe is best for us and our family. I’m doing my best to guide my family towards what I feel is best for us all in the long run and sometimes what a person sees as an immediate need may not help us in the end. A lot of the surface problems we’ve dealt with over the years have been symptoms of deeper issues. I think we’re at the point in our lives where it’s imperative to get to the core problems instead of smoothing over the little things. I know that’s a lot more difficult at times, but I think it helps us a lot more. It also seems that, if we take care of one of these deeper issues, the surface problems seem to go away as well. Like I said, I think we’re well on our way to getting there, it’s just a matter of finding what works best to get us to the right destination.
 
Truthfully, I don’t think a woman could offer me anything which my beloved could not. I don’t consider it to be inappropriate, but rather unecessary, to have female friends. There is only a limited amount of time, effort, resource, and inclination which I can impute to those whom I love. I figure, as far as* my *need for human interaction goes, there are male friends and there is my wife. As far as someone elses need for my acquaintanceship goes, my resources are sapped; I would sooner dote on the ones I love, rather than the ones I merely relate to on some level. This is just my understanding though. Digest it how you will.

God bless!
I hope your issues become resolved and your marriage fully satisfying! 🙂
 
I don’t consider it to be inappropriate, but rather unecessary, to have female friends.
I’ve heard this sentiment from a few others and I guess I just view it a bit differently. I don’t discredit, value or compartmentalize a friendship based on the friend’s gender, but instead choose to value my friends for who they are. One could argue that there’s nothing another person can offer that supersedes the same value in their spouse, but with that logic then no friendships could be considered worthwhile because each one would take something away from the spousal relationship. Whether it’s nostalgia, insight, understanding, whatever, I can point to some aspect of each of my friendships to show why I enjoy spending time or staying in contact with that person, and none of it has to do with that person’s gender or appearance. Some of the people I maintain more casual contact with may not even be people I’d ever seek to spend time with, but I know that, when I need it, they’ll be able to give me the advice or feedback I need, or simply tell me a joke or make the sort of idiotic comment that can brighten my day. That’s not to say that I don’t know people who are better off not having friends of the opposite sex (male & female alike), but I’d hate to think that someone would or should have to turn their back on a healthy, positive friendship based on something so superficial.
 
One thing I try not to do is discount her wants & feelings. However, I also try to balance them against what I truly believe is best for us and our family. I’m doing my best to guide my family towards what I feel is best for us all in the long run and sometimes what a person sees as an immediate need may not help us in the end. A lot of the surface problems we’ve dealt with over the years have been symptoms of deeper issues. I think we’re at the point in our lives where it’s imperative to get to the core problems instead of smoothing over the little things. I know that’s a lot more difficult at times, but I think it helps us a lot more. It also seems that, if we take care of one of these deeper issues, the surface problems seem to go away as well. Like I said, I think we’re well on our way to getting there, it’s just a matter of finding what works best to get us to the right destination.
Well it is your family, I’m sure you know best and certainly more than I do about your situation. It’s just that from an outsider’s perspective, from someone reading your posts and only hearing one side of the story…it seems a real possibility that the “deeper issues” you keep mentioning are actually the shallow issues that you opened the thread to talk about. Like insisting on having numerous female acquaintences, the artistic “people-watching”, confiding in women who aren’t your wife, etc. Look at me, I’m blue in the face already from saying this so much to you! 😉 lol. It’s just an impression that comes across very strong and also goes along with what I already know in general about men and women.

Maybe just consider it Gordon. On one hand you are asking for advice (in your first few posts at least) but on the other hand you’re brushing off almost all the advice you’ve been given by saying you’re already doing that, or you’ve already tried it, etc.
 
It’s just that from an outsider’s perspective, from someone reading your posts and only hearing one side of the story…it seems a real possibility that the “deeper issues” you keep mentioning are actually the shallow issues that you opened the thread to talk about.
A big part of the problem is that 6,000 words is nowhere near enough for me to get my full point across and I did a poor job editing down my first couple posts to try to keep the basics. I tried to include enough background information to get across some of what we went through in the past that seems to have led up to or gives insight on our current situation, but a lot of that was taken as current issues or ongoing problems. I don’t hang out with big groups of single women (or really hang out at all unless it’s with my family), and I’m not spending undue amounts of time conversing with others when I should be with my wife. I’m not insisting on deep, intimate relationships with people but instead on maintaining old, mostly casual friendships. I’m also not seeking to supplant or replace my wife in any way.

I think there are also some discrepancies between what my wife views as the real problems and what she says are the problems. When we talk, the main issue from her perspective is that she feels I look at other women too much and that makes her feel bad about herself. She says me talking & emailing with other women doesn’t bother her in the slightest. In reality, I very seldom look at other women, and it’s never in a leering or lecherous manner (and regardless of how it’s been portrayed here, people-watching is a fun & healthy pastime). However, just about anytime I get an email or message from a select group of female friends (the list has shrunken considerably), it causes problems. Pretty much all of these are people I grew up with, are more like family than friends, are happily married and live hundreds to thousands of miles away. Based on how close we were in the past, it’d be like telling me I couldn’t see or talk to a cousin.

I’m not trying to brush anyone off, but if I’m currently doing something, or I’ve done something and it’s failed, then telling me to keep doing it or to do it again won’t do a lot for me. If I’d started by talking about the people who’d mistreated her in the past and the only advice anyone had for me was to tell me to keep her away from them, that wouldn’t help me much because she’s already cut them out of her life. I’m open to giving counseling a shot, but she’s not. I also think that could add to the self-esteem issues. I’m not open to being less honest than I am now, or to trying things that have failed in the past. I plan on trying a couple relationship books and will keep working on showing her how special she is to me and talking to her about these problems. And if nothing else, just venting about it from time to time and hearing feedback from others (even if I don’t always agree with it) helps out quite a bit because it lets me see things from more than one perspective.
 
Aw, Gordon…I see now more of your wife’s main issue! 😦 She has abandonment and trust issues from how she was treated by others…I feel badly for her. I lost my parents as a young child, and I had trust issues when I was first married…they didn’t manifest quite like your wife’s, but I was always worried my husband was going to die, if he left my sight. :o It was something I diligently worked on for myself and our marriage…I no longer feel that way, mainly because God filled that part of me that was hurting. I pray that God will eventually fill that part of your wife that is hurting, you won’t be able to it, I’m afraid. :o
 
I’ve heard this sentiment from a few others and I guess I just view it a bit differently. I don’t discredit, value or compartmentalize a friendship based on the friend’s gender, but instead choose to value my friends for who they are. One could argue that there’s nothing another person can offer that supersedes the same value in their spouse, but with that logic then no friendships could be considered worthwhile because each one would take something away from the spousal relationship. Whether it’s nostalgia, insight, understanding, whatever, I can point to some aspect of each of my friendships to show why I enjoy spending time or staying in contact with that person, and none of it has to do with that person’s gender or appearance. Some of the people I maintain more casual contact with may not even be people I’d ever seek to spend time with, but I know that, when I need it, they’ll be able to give me the advice or feedback I need, or simply tell me a joke or make the sort of idiotic comment that can brighten my day. That’s not to say that I don’t know people who are better off not having friends of the opposite sex (male & female alike), but I’d hate to think that someone would or should have to turn their back on a healthy, positive friendship based on something so superficial.
And you’re right. Absolutely you’re right. Gender and appearance play no role in your friendships or affections towards others, and otherwise, your faithful to and loving with your wife. But you can neither convince a jealous person that they have nothing to concern themselves with anymore than you can tell the clouds to go away and let the sun through. They’re just words. Jealousy is as much brought on by extraneous factors as it is a personality variable (and I say variable loosely, because these types of traits are enduring). You won’t be successful in using arguments, anecdotes, defences, or by trying to re-map your wife’s cognitions (“this friendship is a threat” becoming “this friendship is innocent”). Because jealousy is the first frontier (an emotion), all other things follow from it.

Knowing the futility with which you’ve tried to set your wife’s mind at ease, would you (though a heavy a cross to bear, perhaps, for someone as extroverted as yourself) consider giving this concession to your wife? Would sacrificing this to some larger degree than you have thus far be too burdensome?
 
Whatevergirl, I don’t believe that I can completely fill the voids that cause my wife this distress, but I believe that I need to play an essential role in getting that done. I’ve been working on getting her to put more faith & trust in God & the Church as a source of comfort & healing, but like many things that’s a long road. I’ll continue to give her the love, support and reassurance she needs. One example of this that helped a bit (although not quite as much as I thought it would) was a few months back when an old classmate of hers was posting all sorts of nasty comments on Facebook about all husbands in general thanks to a fight she was having with hers. I could see that just reading those was bothering my wife, so in response I posted a lengthy note about how lucky I am to have such a wonderful, beautiful wife. She not only liked the content of the note but the fact that I professed it so publicly (especially to some of those friends she harbors suspicions over), and because it quieted down that friend of hers.

Primox, it’s not that I view the sacrifice as a burden (I’ve made much bigger sacrifices in the past), but I’ve seen the resulting pain it can end up causing to my wife and our kids should she again take it to an extreme. If I’m looking at a handful of solutions and know that each one will cause my wife some degree of pain or discomfort, I need to either pick the one that causes the least pain or that does the most good (and hopefully, as in this case, they’ll be the same option). If abandoning my friend’s isn’t going to bring about any long-term benefits, but instead will cause lasting harm (it took some time for some in my family to get over the earlier abandonment), then I don’t see that as a plausible choice. If pursuing other options means that my wife has to endure some hurt or doubt while getting to a place where we’re all better off and happier, then I have to view that as a better choice. I don’t view that as selfish, but more as me having to pick what works best in the long run, regardless of the short-term difficulties.
 
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