Jehova Witness/the Kingdom of God

[T_More]

Well I am sorry but by that definition Catholics are a cult. Are you trying to tell me that early Catholics didn’t shun ex-communicated people? Check out what happened to Galileo when he had a different view than the church. Not only was he shunned buy he was put under house arrest. That is a stupid definition of a cult.

I think you need to get your facts straight about Galilieo. He was not “shunned”.

catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy

Galileo’s “house arrest” included him being confined to a palace, and this after repeatedly being asked to stop teaching what he was teaching.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

I wonder if Yolene is still reading this thread?

My feeling is that I would not engage myself in any conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness because they do practice mind control even though those who are members do not realize this. A great book to read is: Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. I would suggest she read the book, Crisis of Conscious by Franz. That book is enough to help any person stay away from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Franz was the in the governing body of the JWs, if not the president. He could have been the president. I would also suggest she begin reading posts on this website:

exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/
What I have experienced myself while being on the forum is that it is filled with the most loving people I have ever met, exJWs, who accept people, who never argue, and who are there supporting each other and all are either disfellowshipped or about to be. And so lest of all I would read this website. It is free; the other books cost.
But I do believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are loving people, just that they do not see the suffering they are causing through disfellowhipping others, and we were taught to believe that all who were disfellowshipped were not repentent (as if that mattered), and that they did not suffer. This website says otherwise.

In fact if you watch the movie “Fiddler on the Roof” you will find that Jews do the exact same thing. If you watch “Big Love” you will find that “Mormons” do the same thing. If you read history you will find that ex-communication was a huge part of the Catholic faith. I just don’t see why JW’s are any different.

 

[T_More]

I would think that if it were so important that it might have been mentioned by Paul or maybe Peter.

Strawman argument. JW’s teach “paradise earth” and that’s not mentioned anywhere in scripture.

They believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and they believe they reside together they just don’t believe they are a Tri-God.

No, “they” do not. JW’s don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is even a person. Please get your facts straight about what “they” believe. I know what I’m talking about, I used to be a JW.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

I think you need to get your facts straight about Galilieo. He was not “shunned”.

catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy

Galileo’s “house arrest” included him being confined to a palace, and this after repeatedly being asked to stop teaching what he was teaching.

Oh ok I was wrong. He wasn’t shunned for disagreeing with the church he was put under house arrest because he taught that the earth revolved around the sun. Yeah I can see where I was confused there. So it’s better to have totalatarian control and arrest people that don’t have the same beliefs as you. Is that what you are saying?

 

[T_More]

Oh ok I was wrong.

Thank you.

He wasn’t shunned for disagreeing with the church he was put under house arrest because he taught that the earth revolved around the sun. Yeah I can see where I was confused there. So it’s better to have totalatarian control and arrest people that don’t have the same beliefs as you. Is that what you are saying?

**Galileo was claiming that scripture (and the Church) was wrong, and he was under no authority to teach. He was asked repeatedly to stop teaching others his ideas. Totalitarian is Stalin. Hitler. Mao Zedong. Let’s get a little perspective please.

Please read the link I sent. I think it may enlighten you about Galileo’s “imprisonment”.

**

 

[Riddle_me_this]

T_More:
Ok so they don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They obviously believe he is a spirit. It’s not like the Holy Spirit does a lot of talking in the bible now does he. Do I guess that’s the reason they should all burn in hell then. This is getting stranger and stranger.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

T_More:
I seem to recall somewhere in Genesis about the whole purpose of man was to expand the garden of eden to encompass the entire earth and for man to fill the earth and subdue it. Did he change his mind on that one?

 

[Riddle_me_this]

I wonder if Yolene is still reading this thread?

My feeling is that I would not engage myself in any conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness because they do practice mind control even though those who are members do not realize this. A great book to read is: Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. I would suggest she read the book, Crisis of Conscious by Franz. That book is enough to help any person stay away from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Franz was the in the governing body of the JWs, if not the president. He could have been the president. I would also suggest she begin reading posts on this website:

exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/
What I have experienced myself while being on the forum is that it is filled with the most loving people I have ever met, exJWs, who accept people, who never argue, and who are there supporting each other and all are either disfellowshipped or about to be. And so lest of all I would read this website. It is free; the other books cost.

Mind control??? Are you serious? I think you have been reading too many sci-fi novels. Would you like to give me an instance of this mind control? I happen to know a great deal about mind control so I would be very interested in hearing about what you have to say about it. I know if seems to be a reflex with just about every religion you talk to but I also know that saying a person is using mind-control you are actually using a form of mind-control.
But I do believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are loving people, just that they do not see the suffering they are causing through disfellowhipping others, and we were taught to believe that all who were disfellowshipped were not repentent (as if that mattered), and that they did not suffer. This website says otherwise.

 

[T_More]

Ok so they don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They obviously believe he is a spirit.

No, they don’t even believe that is Holy Spirit is even a “he”, so they do not think that “he is a spirit”.

It’s not like the Holy Spirit does a lot of talking in the bible now does he.

**From the New World Translation (JW bible):

Acts 13:2

1 Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Bar´na·bas as well as Sym´e·on who was called Ni´ger, and Lucius of Cy·re´ne, and Man´a·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. 2 As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, **the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar´na·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.” ****

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Yes, Buddhism is a religion but it isn’t a divinely revealed religion since it has originated from Buddha’s philosophies about life. Yet, when Buddhists mention reincarnation they can’t give any evidence to show their reincarnation has taken place, since they do not have a divinely revealed evidence. For instance, here is a good example: if we were all reincarnated again and again, then why is it that the world is getting worse and worse and not better? I thought the whole process of reincarnation is to better the world, not to make it go from bad to worse as it is today.

Look! I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and true Savior. There is only the one Who has judged himself fittingly to say, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” All the rest meant well, but it’s time to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth, it’s time to worship the Holy Spirit. Besides all that, the Old Testament is filled with the prophecies of Jesus Christ. Psalm 22 is a favourite and it talks about Jesus’ hands and feet being pierced. Or the prophet Micah talks about the place where the Messiah is to be born - Bethlehem. The prophet Isaiah talks about the passion of Christ and his death.

Think about how scriptures from the Old Testament fulfills the New Testament with Jesus Christ.

Also read the lives of Catholic Saints. Read up on Saint Padre Pio who died in 1968 and was truly a prophet and a man filled with the Holy Spirit. This man literally fasted day and night, healed people from incurable illnesses, restled with the devil and built hospitals for the poor and those who suffered much. A true hermit and a true brother of Christ. There’s so many Catholic Saints that non-catholics do not know about and their supernatural experiences with God. What about Saint Andre Besette the Canadian Saint who was known to heal people with incurable illnesses, or, what about Father Aloysius Ellacuria who died in 1981, California, and was truly a prophet, healer, an exorcist, and a nice man. May he rest in peace. Amen.

If you read the lives of Catholic saints and study their supernaturality, their miracles, their supernatural healings, then you will begin to see the Holy Spirit working in your own life. Seriously, there is a God! There is! And his name is Jesus Christ and he established his church as it is known today as “The Catholic Church.” May God bless you!

So I am just curious, why is Jesus the only one of the three that has a name? Why does he need a name but no else does?

 

[Riddle_me_this]

T_More:
So I am wrong by saying that the Holy Spirit doesn’t say much? Is that the only scripture you can come up with where the Holy Spirit says something? I mean compared to Jesus and God the Almighty you don’t hear a lot from the Holy Spirit now do you?
And a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak via the Holy Spirit so that could be interpeted that way as well.

 

[T_More]

And a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak via the Holy Spirit so that could be interpeted that way as well.

So who was talking?

 

[jessaka]

Well I am sorry but by that definition Catholics are a cult. Are you trying to tell me that early Catholics didn’t shun ex-communicated people? Check out what happened to Galileo when he had a different view than the church. Not only was he shunned buy he was put under house arrest. That is a stupid definition of a cult.

Do Catholics still shun those who are excommunicated? I don’t think so. Catholics do not shun. They excommunicate. Catholics can still talk to and be friends with someone who has been excommunicated. The excommunicated just cannot partake of the sacraments, that is all. A JW really shuns. Parents can’t talk to their children, children, if the parents are shunned, can’t talk to their parents. How would you like this to happen to you? Think what it would feel like if you no longer believed in the JWs and left? You would lose your parents. If Regardless has parents in the faith, I hope he never leaves the faith, because it would be disaster. If he becomes unhappy in the faith, like some are, then they end up choosing between their parents and their religion or they stay in their religion just to keep their family. Now that is a real disaster, isn’t it?

Another thing that JWS do is that they spy on each other, just like Communists did. Children spy on their parents and visa versa. I was asked to spy on a member who had done something wrong to see if she was still doing it. I thought nothing wrong with it at the time. They turn each other into the elders. There is a long list of ways that the JWs use brainwashing just like what was practiced in communist countries. When I was shunned by them I read a book on brainwashing in communist countries and saw exactly wha the JWs were doing. But as I said, the members do not realize this, but whoever put this into action I am sure knew what he was doing, but I don’t know who he was.

 

[jessaka]

So I am wrong by saying that the Holy Spirit doesn’t say much? Is that the only scripture you can come up with where the Holy Spirit says something? I mean compared to Jesus and God the Almighty you don’t hear a lot from the Holy Spirit now do you?
And a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak via the Holy Spirit so that could be interpeted that way as well.

Could it be that the Holy Spirit just acts?

 

[CoRedeemer]

So I am just curious, why is Jesus the only one of the three that has a name? Why does he need a name but no else does?

The name Jesus obviously comes from the ancient Aramaic language and is pronounced as, “Yeshua” and it means, “God who saves!”

Actually the Holy Spirit has a few names, “The Spirit of Truth,” “the Advocate,” “the Intercessor,” “the teacher,” “the helper,” “the comforter,” “the Paraclete,” or in Greek: Parakletos. May we never forget the icons or pictures or symbols used to describe the Holy Spirit; such as: The dove which is commonly used and known. Fire, which the Apostles received on their heads - this is why Bishops, Cardinals, and the Pope wears that funny pointy hat which is called a myter - a symbol of the flame that acted on Pentacost. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit as, “The finger of God,” after casting out a demon.

Or let me shorten it for you:

1. Water
2. Fire
3. Annointing
4. Cloud and light
5. The Seal
6. the finger of God
7. The Dove

The Holy Spirit is also known as, “Rau” which means, “Air or spirit”

Jesus also calls God the Father as, “Abba” which means in Aramaic, “daddy!” or “dad!”

Actually, there was one bad case in Brisbane where a priest instead of Baptizing children, “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” He did something totaly contrary, “In the Name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier. Amen.” Don’t worry… they got rid of him after he put a statue of Buddha infront of the Altar and started celebrating the Holy Mass." He had done a lot of weired and uncatholic practices. Rome intervinved after a man recorded it all on camera and sent the video to Rome.

Also we shouldn’t call God the Father, “Joseph brown” or humanize the name or otherwise we’ll end up destroying the sequence of the name of God. This would destroy the essence of worship. Obedience to the Church is number one. He who doesn’t agree with the church will slowly begin to find him or herself losing graces and slowly departing into rebellion.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
The Peace of the Lord be with you always.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Do Catholics still shun those who are excommunicated? I don’t think so. Catholics do not shun. They excommunicate. Catholics can still talk to and be friends with someone who has been excommunicated. The excommunicated just cannot partake of the sacraments, that is all. A JW really shuns. Parents can’t talk to their children, children, if the parents are shunned, can’t talk to their parents. How would you like this to happen to you? Think what it would feel like if you no longer believed in the JWs and left? You would lose your parents. If Regardless has parents in the faith, I hope he never leaves the faith, because it would be disaster. If he becomes unhappy in the faith, like some are, then they end up choosing between their parents and their religion or they stay in their religion just to keep their family. Now that is a real disaster, isn’t it?

Another thing that JWS do is that they spy on each other, just like Communists did. Children spy on their parents and visa versa. I was asked to spy on a member who had done something wrong to see if she was still doing it. I thought nothing wrong with it at the time. They turn each other into the elders. There is a long list of ways that the JWs use brainwashing just like what was practiced in communist countries. When I was shunned by them I read a book on brainwashing in communist countries and saw exactly wha the JWs were doing. But as I said, the members do not realize this, but whoever put this into action I am sure knew what he was doing, but I don’t know who he was.

Well this might come as a surprise to you but there has to be a reason for people to brainwash other people. What do they get from brainwashing people? From what I understand the leaders of that religion do not have homes or cars or even bank accounts. They live in a little apartment at the headquarters and most of the people don’t even know who they are. They live out their lives and give up everything. Who is doing the brainwashing?
The Catholic Church for instance has hellfire and damnation of the soul. What do they get out of this? They scare the living **** out of people and make it so they don’t question anything that they say. They gain immense power as well. I remember watching an old movie that the archbishop said that the King could take your life but the Archbishop could send your soul to hell. Who would you be more inclined to follow?
The Pope is probably one of the most famous people on the planet.
The Vatican is the only religious empire on earth. It is actually a country inside a country and Italy has no juridiction inside its walls. They are also the riches religion on the planet. They follow one leader named the Pope who was orginally elected.
What does the Catholic Church get? Fame, riches and power.
By using your line of reasoning then wouldn’t the Catholic Church qualify as a brainwashing cult more than the JW’s? I am not saying that the Catholic Church is a cult I am just curious how you tell the difference between one and the other.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Do Catholics still shun those who are excommunicated? I don’t think so. Catholics do not shun. They excommunicate. Catholics can still talk to and be friends with someone who has been excommunicated. The excommunicated just cannot partake of the sacraments, that is all. A JW really shuns. Parents can’t talk to their children, children, if the parents are shunned, can’t talk to their parents. How would you like this to happen to you? Think what it would feel like if you no longer believed in the JWs and left? You would lose your parents. If Regardless has parents in the faith, I hope he never leaves the faith, because it would be disaster. If he becomes unhappy in the faith, like some are, then they end up choosing between their parents and their religion or they stay in their religion just to keep their family. Now that is a real disaster, isn’t it?

Another thing that JWS do is that they spy on each other, just like Communists did. Children spy on their parents and visa versa. I was asked to spy on a member who had done something wrong to see if she was still doing it. I thought nothing wrong with it at the time. They turn each other into the elders. There is a long list of ways that the JWs use brainwashing just like what was practiced in communist countries. When I was shunned by them I read a book on brainwashing in communist countries and saw exactly wha the JWs were doing. But as I said, the members do not realize this, but whoever put this into action I am sure knew what he was doing, but I don’t know who he was.

As far as Catholics not shunning people that are ex-communicated (anymore) doesn’t that go against what Paul said when he admonished the congregation/church to not even greet such a man? Anyway, the Catholic church no longer posseses the power that it once did. I think evolution has a lot to do with that. If there is no God then the people don’t have to be afraid. If the people don’t have to be afraid then the goverments don’t have to care what the church has to say anymore. When the Church was at full power you were smart to keep your mouth shut or you might lose your head.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

The name Jesus obviously comes from the ancient Aramaic language and is pronounced as, “Yeshua” and it means, “God who saves!”

Actually the Holy Spirit has a few names, “The Spirit of Truth,” “the Advocate,” “the Intercessor,” “the teacher,” “the helper,” “the comforter,” “the Paraclete,” or in Greek: Parakletos. May we never forget the icons or pictures or symbols used to describe the Holy Spirit; such as: The dove which is commonly used and known. Fire, which the Apostles received on their heads - this is why Bishops, Cardinals, and the Pope wears that funny pointy hat which is called a myter - a symbol of the flame that acted on Pentacost. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit as, “The finger of God,” after casting out a demon.

Or let me shorten it for you:

1. Water
2. Fire
3. Annointing
4. Cloud and light
5. The Seal
6. the finger of God
7. The Dove

The Holy Spirit is also known as, “Rau” which means, “Air or spirit”

Jesus also calls God the Father as, “Abba” which means in Aramaic, “daddy!” or “dad!”

Actually, there was one bad case in Brisbane where a priest instead of Baptizing children, “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” He did something totaly contrary, “In the Name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier. Amen.” Don’t worry… they got rid of him after he put a statue of Buddha infront of the Altar and started celebrating the Holy Mass." He had done a lot of weired and uncatholic practices. Rome intervinved after a man recorded it all on camera and sent the video to Rome.

Also we shouldn’t call God the Father, “Joseph brown” or humanize the name or otherwise we’ll end up destroying the sequence of the name of God. This would destroy the essence of worship. Obedience to the Church is number one. He who doesn’t agree with the church will slowly begin to find him or herself losing graces and slowly departing into rebellion.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
The Peace of the Lord be with you always.

See and to me that totally goes against the Lord’s Prayer that we said in school growing up. “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.”

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Do Catholics still shun those who are excommunicated? I don’t think so. Catholics do not shun. They excommunicate. Catholics can still talk to and be friends with someone who has been excommunicated. The excommunicated just cannot partake of the sacraments, that is all. A JW really shuns. Parents can’t talk to their children, children, if the parents are shunned, can’t talk to their parents. How would you like this to happen to you? Think what it would feel like if you no longer believed in the JWs and left? You would lose your parents. If Regardless has parents in the faith, I hope he never leaves the faith, because it would be disaster. If he becomes unhappy in the faith, like some are, then they end up choosing between their parents and their religion or they stay in their religion just to keep their family. Now that is a real disaster, isn’t it?

Another thing that JWS do is that they spy on each other, just like Communists did. Children spy on their parents and visa versa. I was asked to spy on a member who had done something wrong to see if she was still doing it. I thought nothing wrong with it at the time. They turn each other into the elders. There is a long list of ways that the JWs use brainwashing just like what was practiced in communist countries. When I was shunned by them I read a book on brainwashing in communist countries and saw exactly wha the JWs were doing. But as I said, the members do not realize this, but whoever put this into action I am sure knew what he was doing, but I don’t know who he was.

Oh and another thing. I don’t have anything against communists and neither does the Catholic church. I don’t think any political government is any better than another. As far as I am concerned people have far too much freedom these days and totally misuse it. We have more billionaires in the world now then ever before and yet countries are declaring bankruptcy. What does that say about our method of government? Warren Buffet just has to suggest that there is going to be a recession and guess what happens. Who really has the authority these days? Just saying.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

So who was talking?

Well that would depend on your definition of the Holy Spirit. One group says that the Holy Spirit is what God uses to do everything and another group says that the spirit is an individual that acts from God’s will. I am not sure that the two are all that different but if the Holy spirit is a force that God uses then it would probably be Jesus or God that would be doing the talking.