Jehova Witness/the Kingdom of God

[CoRedeemer]

I must say, Jesseka, you are right about things on hell. When Pope John Paul II said about hell in the Bible, he was refering hell figuratively in the spiritual language or in the theological language that cannot be described accept figuratively using life experience. He says that hell is a state rather than a place. This is so true! Yet the bible offers figurative representation of hell and what it would be like, though, it isn’t a physical suffering, for in the spiritual world there isn’t a body except for the spirit.

Also if we look at this theologically as Saint Thomas Aquinas would. Then hell is something that is torturing the spirit and not the body, since there is no physical body, everything in a spiritual world is a state. Time doesn’t exist because it is a human convention brought forth by the measure of the day and the sun and the revolution of the earth around the sun. Also time is a human convention of the human life expectancy… Time really doesn’t exist in the spiritual world, for spirits do not go by the day, nor do they follow a calendar of the earth revolving around the sun. There is no 24 hours in the spiritual world. There is no day or night, there is no summer and winter… Everything in the spiritual world is a state not a place.

The bible talks about a spiritual fire, yet it figuratively talks about it as a fire that never goes out. This would be something that is spiritually and something that the human mind cannot grasp with their human minds and reasoning, since it is purely spiritual and is compared to something what the eye has not seen or the ear heard. Hell is far beyond the human level of comprehension, since it is a spiritual and not a physical state. A good example of this would be angels.

What is the state of angels?
Their office is Angel (messenger), but in reality what they are is spirit. They are in a state of spirituality. When the bible speaks about angels in the shape of human forms, yes, they can appear as human beings in a figurative way. But in reality and theologically they are bodiless, shapeless, or better word yet, “SPIRITUAL” since they contain no physical matter. Therefore if angels and devils are incorporal beings or bodiless beings, “PURE SPIRITS” they can appear figuratively as human beings or in the case of devils ugly beasts as in the bible, but in reality they are not what they appear as, for they come from a spiritual dimension that does not need a physical shape, superficiality, or appearance, or looks, or a facial feature. Thus neither are they supericial, they are pure spirits. However if angels do appear as human beings they do so only to make it easier to communicate God’s message. For example, they appear as human beings or for instance in the devil’s case as wild beasts. However, if we were to see their reality and what they are really then our eyes would be useless. The same thing applies to hell, heaven, and purgatory. We think that we can grasp the state of hell, heaven, or purgatory with our little human brains, but this is impossible. Let’s be patient and in time we will see spiritually and not with our eyes or ears.

And when Jesus spoke about Luke 16:19-31, he figuratively spoke about the rich man’s suffering. He described hell in the most easiest way that would make it understandable, though, using physical suffering. But in reality and theologically we have to study this parable spiritually and, what it would be like in a world where eyes are useless and cannot see or comprehend it. Well, this is why not even Jesus could describe hell in its spiritual dimension or state, perhaps because the contemporary people then where very illiterate and perhaps he feared speaking “too” theologically about the spiritual dimension. So Jesus kept it neat and tidy and easy, in order to make it understandable for the common man back then.

However Hell isn’t painless; nor is it a place. It is purely a spiritual state of suffering which we cannot comprehend besides using our own human misery and minds to grasp the likeness of it, and imagining the misery as never ending, infinite, or forever. However, neither is this sufficient enough to describe hell in its detail, or heaven, or purgatory. Let us work on the messages of the Gospel and comprehend what Jesus is trying to say to us all.

But hell and heaven is a place on the resurrection day. All people will rise back to their bodies and will be forever sealed in their glorious bodies. Some will be sealed forever for the sake of God, whilst others will be sealed forever for the sake of the devil.

Q: Will we resurrect and return to our bodies? Of course, and those who have done evil will finally receive their sentence and even the devil. Take a look at what Pope Benedict XVI said about hell. Very interesting article.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/what_the_pope_really_said_about_hell/

God bless

 

[CoRedeemer]

Take a look at this video. It’s about a blind man, born without eyes and he’s literally painting artistical pictures, even without his eyes. How does he do it? Watch this video! youtube.com/watch?v=L3AgO6H0H98

Also this blind man represents us when it comes to explaning spiritual dimensions of heaven, hell, and purgatory. We are comprehending by touch, taste, smell, hearing, and vision. Yet this comprehension is only probably 2% of what we’re seeing in reality. Actually we are very blind if we theologically look at ourselves and observe ourselves. Our eyes cannot see the radio waves passing through our bodies or the magnetic fields and etcetera. But it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there or it doesn’t exist. It’s there, but we just can’t see it nor sense it with our senses.

 

[T_More]

I am reading the new Cathcism. There is nothing in it about a literal fire burning a person forever. Instead it says this:

The church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity, reserved for those who don’t love God and have sinned against God, neighbor, or self. “Hell firs” is an imagine that tries to describe the basic horror of hell: love lost. It attempts to cature the state of a person who “burns” with self-hatred and abject loneliness because he or she has pridefull chosen self over God."

The book is **This is Our Faith–A catholic cathechism for adults **by michael Pennock. Wish I had read it before coming to this hellish thead, since I felt like I was being put through hell by coming here. Nothing in this chapter of the afterlife speaks of hell as a burning fire. This book was given to me by my priest. Maybe what you all have been taught was out of a medieval Cathechism book. This I can accept easily.

Why don’t you try the actual Cathechism, jessaka, so you don’t lose any more credibility.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#IV

The book you cite does not speak for the Church. And BTW, the Cathechism in the link I provided did not come out of Medieval times, but the 20th century.

You don’t have to believe what the Church teaches, but please don’t try to tell us what it “really” teaches.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

If you could quote the Bible verse in Genesis for me that would be helpful.

Thanks.

I don’t know why I have to do all the research. Can’t you do some on your own?

Nonetheless,

(Genesis 1:26-28) 26And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28*Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

(Genesis 2:15-17) 15And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17*But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

(Psalm 37:29) 29*The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

(Genesis 3:22-24) ...God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E′den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.

(Genesis 6:1-3) 6 Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose. 3After that Jehovah said: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.”

(Romans 6:23) 23*For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

I like the NWT because I find it easier to read. That’s why I don’t read the Dead Sea Scrolls directly.

We all know that if we work for something we appreciate it more than if it is given to us. Just ask a spoiled rich kid. God knows this even better. It was his desire for man to cultivate the earth and to spread the garden over its entirety.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

He’s a JW.

So, “Riddle me this”. Suppose the year is 1450. A non-Christian interested in following Christ runs across these passages: (New World Translation) Matthew 18:15-17

15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

To be obedient to Christ’s commands, what congregation would this person go to?

Oh man…I don’t have time to teach you the entire bible my friend. If you want to have a bible study one on one just let me know.

Of course he is talking about the congregation of the time, not if you were on a deserted island or if you were in the middle of the Sahara with your buddy.

He is giving advice as to the best way to resolve a situation with your brother. Don’t involve a bunch of people unnecesarily and cause contentions in the congregation.

He also taught us that there would be a time when the congregation would be silenced for awhile but that it would not remain so forever.

Why do you come up with such foolish questions? I am sorry if I am being short but it’s just silly.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

Why don’t you try the actual Cathechism, jessaka, so you don’t lose any more credibility.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#IV

The book you cite does not speak for the Church. And BTW, the Cathechism in the link I provided did not come out of Medieval times, but the 20th century.

You don’t have to believe what the Church teaches, but please don’t try to tell us what it “really” teaches.

I think this scripture is kind of what Jessika is referring to:

(Jeremiah 32:30-35) 30*“‘For the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah have proved to be mere doers of what was bad in my eyes, from their youth on up; for the sons of Israel are even offending me by the work of their hands,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. 31*‘For this city, from the day that they built it, clear down to this day, has proved to be nothing but a cause of anger in me and a cause of rage in me, in order to remove it from before my face, 32on account of all the badness of the sons of Israel and of the sons of Judah that they have done to offend me, they, their kings, their princes, their priests and their prophets, and the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33And they kept turning to me the back and not the face; though there was a teaching of them, a rising up early and teaching, but there were none of them listening to receive discipline. 34And they went putting their disgusting things in the house upon which my own name has been called, in order to defile it. 35Furthermore, they built the high places of Ba′al that are in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Mo′lech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’

If God thinks that having their sons and daughters pass through the fire is detestable and didn’t even come up into his heart then why would he do the same thing to his own children. It doesn’t make sense and in my opinion is blasphemy to a loving God.

As far the reference about Judas, regarding the expression it would be better if he were never borne, this can refer to so much. For example, do you know who Judas is today? How do you feel about him? How have Christians throughout history felt about him? Do people speak of him with honour and respect? Do you think his name and the name of his family would not be looked down upon throughour the centuries? Do you not think that maybe it would have been better for him not to be borne instead of bringing such shame upon his name? Was it a big deal to have a good name in bible times?

How about the fact that he felt so much shame at what he had done that he killed himself. Maybe he was wishing that he had never been borne. His father probably wished that he had never been borne as well because he brought shame upon their family.

(Ecclesiastes 7:1) 7 A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born.

 

[Riddle_me_this]

I am reading the new Cathcism. There is nothing in it about a literal fire burning a person forever. Instead it says this:

The church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity, reserved for those who don’t love God and have sinned against God, neighbor, or self. “Hell firs” is an imagine that tries to describe the basic horror of hell: love lost. It attempts to cature the state of a person who “burns” with self-hatred and abject loneliness because he or she has pridefull chosen self over God."

The book is **This is Our Faith–A catholic cathechism for adults **by michael Pennock. Wish I had read it before coming to this hellish thead, since I felt like I was being put through hell by coming here. Nothing in this chapter of the afterlife speaks of hell as a burning fire. This book was given to me by my priest. Maybe what you all have been taught was out of a medieval Cathechism book. This I can accept easily.

God is in your heart Jessika. If your heart is telling you that God is not capable of such evils (and I can’t even imagine a more evil place than hell) then God is telling you that as well. The bible tells us that God doesn’t want any of us to be destroyed but have everlasting life. No matter what your beliefs are no one can twist that into anything but what it is. You aren’t destroyed if you are tormented forever and ever are you? The bible says we also choose life or death. Not life or eternal torment. Don’t ever let the devil or any of his false prophets convince you that he is evil or does evil things because it just isn’t true.

In fact the bible tells us that if the times were not cut short that no one would survive. Not one person. So what does that mean? To me it means no one would be able to survive because we are so weak. If we are not able to survive then is it just for God to send us to hell even though there was nothing we could do about it? The whole thing is just ridiculous and was created to scare people into following the church ahead of the state. Our love for God shouldn’t be burdensome. I think waking up in a cold sweat with nightmares about burning in hell is somewhat burdensome. But that’s just me.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thanks for the clarification Church Militant.

I understand exactly what you mean when you reference having your heart broken at the end of a loving relationship.

I think most people have experienced that.

What if you never loved in the first place though? You wouldn’t feel anything then would you?

Sarah x

Yeah. but in all my years on this rock, I have yet to encounter any such person, have you?

(Oh my gosh, I’ve just seen your homepage Ok, well, that’s the rest of this weeks reading material sorted out )

If you have any questions about anything that you find there, please feel free to PM or email me through CAF here and I’ll get back to you asap. I’m gratified that you found it of interest.

 

[CoRedeemer]

Talking about the book of Genesis: Why didn’t God place a Cherub and flaming sword infront of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as He did later with the tree of life?

People talk about how God didn’t intend for Adam and Eve to fall, but they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but why didn’t God place a Cherub and a flaming sword before the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as He did with the tree of life?

Also how could Adam and Eve have sexual intercouse if they were not aware that they were naked? Also how could Adam get his groin up if had no sense or feel of nakedness? Just curious?

Also was death already inherited in Adam and Eve considering that they had the tree of life and had to eat from it? Suppose God didn’t place the tree of life in Eden then would they have died before the fall? It seems that the tree of life was only preserving Adam and Eve from death but it did not cure their mortality. Saint Thomas Aquinas said the same thing. I am not sure but will check it out.

So was Adam and Eve’s fall a good thing after considering these things?

The Church sings on the Exultation of Easter (Holy Saturday) “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam which gained for us such a great Redeemer.” It really is a good thing that the church sings this Exultation.

 

[Phyllo]

Talking about the book of Genesis: Why didn’t God place a Cherub and flaming sword infront of the tree of knowledge of good and evil as He did later with the tree of life?

Because He told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit. He wanted them to be obedient to Him. The angel would not have let Adam and Eve touch the tree so where would the choice be for them to choose God?

People talk about how God didn’t intend for Adam and Eve to fall, but they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but why didn’t God place a Cherub and a flaming sword before the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as He did with the tree of life?

Same as above

Also how could Adam and Eve have sexual intercouse if they were not aware that they were naked? Also how could Adam get his groin up if had no sense or feel of nakedness? Just curious?

Really? Dose one have to be naked to have sex? I am sure that God put the natural desire there for Adam and Eve.

Also was death already inherited in Adam and Eve considering that they had the tree of life and had to eat from it? Suppose God didn’t place the tree of life in Eden then would they have died before the fall? It seems that the tree of life was only preserving Adam and Eve from death but it did not cure their mortality. Saint Thomas Aquinas said the same thing. I am not sure but will check it out.

Ver. 22. Behold Adam, &c. This was spoken by way of reproaching him with his pride, in affecting a knowledge that might make him like to God. (Challoner) — “These are the words of God, not insulting over man, but deterring others from an imitation of his pride.” (St. Augustine, de Gen. xi. 39.) — For ever. The sentence is left imperfect: (Calmet) but by driving man from Paradise, God sufficiently shewed how he would prevent him from eating of the tree of life, (Haydock) which Adam had not yet found. As he was now condemned to be miserable on earth, God, in mercy, prevented him from tasting of that fruit, which would have rendered his misery perpetual. (Menochius) — He would suffer him to die, that, by death, he might come, after a life of 930 years, spent in sorrow and repentance, to the enjoyment of himself. (Haydock) — Lest perhaps. God does not exercise his absolute power, or destroy free-will, but makes use of ordinary means and precautions, to effect his designs. (St. Augustine) (Worthington)

So was Adam and Eve’s fall a good thing after considering these things?

Yes. Because I think life in heaven with God will be much better than an eternal life here separate from God.

The Church sings on the Exultation of Easter (Holy Saturday) “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam which gained for us such a great Redeemer.” It really is a good thing that the church sings this Exultation.

Yes. See above.

 

[dj_dave]

I’m being visited about 4 times now by a well-informed JW who seems to enjoy my Catholic response to her points. Her next visit will be about what the kingdom of God really means to an individual. From her handout: “Many believe that Jesus died for them. Yet, how can one man’s death almost 2,000 yrs ago mean life for others today?” I gather the Holy Spirit has no place in their faith. How do I respond to her? Scripture to quote?

Thanks,
Yolene

Hi Yolene,

REGARLESS OF ALL THE NEGATIVE ANSWERS HERE (proverbs 18:13) feel free the let them answer you from YOUR own Bible. Ask any questions you want. Listen to their explaination then vist www.tinyurl.com/hectorsanswers for more complete explainations.
Remember why TRUE Christians are being persecuted John 15:21

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Yolene,

REGARLESS OF ALL THE NEGATIVE ANSWERS HERE (proverbs 18:13) feel free the let them answer you from YOUR own Bible. Ask any questions you want. Listen to their explaination then vist www.tinyurl.com/hectorsanswers for more complete explainations.
Remember why TRUE Christians are being persecuted John 15:21

That assumes something not in evidence with regard to the Jehovah’s Witnesses though.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Hi Yolene,

REGARLESS OF ALL THE NEGATIVE ANSWERS HERE (proverbs 18:13) feel free the let them answer you from YOUR own Bible. Ask any questions you want. Listen to their explaination then vist www.tinyurl.com/hectorsanswers for more complete explainations.
Remember why TRUE Christians are being persecuted John 15:21

Hmm…I wonder why false Christians are being persecuted…

 

[dj_dave]

To me an interesting verse of what some people refer to Hell is:

Revelation 14:10-11, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

A lot is revealed here. ** It describes these people as being tormented with fire and brimstone, and the smoke from this torment ascends forever and ever. These people literally have no rest day or night, forever and ever. This definitely does not fit the definition of Soul Sleep, since obviously these people are alive, conscience, and they are aware of their torment. **

[SIGN]Here is the key to that parable: it is not what you think. See verse 14 and compare it to verse 19. Now, QUESTION: Why did he say verse 18 Before he started his illustration? And YES it was only an illustration (Matthew 13:34)[/SIGN]

 

[dj_dave]

someone on this thread post this scripture. You know, when i was a jehovah’s witness i never read this before. It is so meaningful to me now. Of course, as a jw i never read the bible, but not because it was forbidden but because i had enough to read that was put out by the watchtower, bible & tract society.

But as for jesus, well, we were not to worship him, and now i find many scriptures where he is worshipped and to be worshipped. Jesus wasn’t much in the picture at all. It was all about jehovah, and to this day it has always been about god to me, not about jesus. This easter i began looking at christ, this for many reasons, not because it was easter because i never celebrated easter as a jw, not as a hindu or as a buddhist. But because of what i was reading, gnostic christianity which is replete with sexual tantric practices, well, for some, many or most of them, i saw why the catholic church banned it, and soi realized that they had something to say of importance.

[SIGN]anyone reading this – Proverbs 14:15
would you all recommend I put faith in every word of an x-catholic?[/SIGN]

 

[T_More]

What a surprise. dj dave comes out of hibernation. Needing some time on the field service card, dave?

 

[Kc906]

[sign]Here is the key to that parable: it is not what you think. See verse 14 and compare it to verse 19. Now, QUESTION: Why did he say verse 18 Before he started his illustration? And YES it was only an illustration (Matthew 13:34)[/sign]

Dave, you are assuming that Jesus cannot make more than one point with any statement/parable he makes. Yes, Luke 16:14 helps tie into the parable Jesus is about to tell regarding the rich man who would not help the beggar, Lazarus. The reason we are discussing these verses is because of what happens to humans after they have died on the earth, and I was wondering if you have an opinion on that part of each of the verses?

In Luke 16, the rich man is not sleeping, he is alive/alert/awake being tormented in Hades. This appears to be describing a scenario before the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. Scripture talks about an “Eternal/Everlasting Punishment” for those that are not saved; both the Luke and Revelation verses we are discussing line up with a “Punishment” of some sort happening to people after they have died. Neither of the verses discuss a person being destroyed out of existence as a result of them not being saved. It mentions people that are truly alive after they have died on earth.

To answer your question about verse 18 being stated before going into the Parable of the Beggar and the Rich man…Christ’s Church is his body on the earth, it is his bride. To me, I can see Jesus drawing this into his parable of the beggar Lazarus because people in his position are considered part of his Church, his Bride waiting for his return on earth. We see constant examples of those who are poor are rich in spirit; they have not been corrupted by things that wealth can do.

I do understand that Jesus is providing this as an illustration to those he is preaching to; another way of looking at it is he is providing an example of what happens after natural death on the earth. Illustration or not; why would Jesus mislead those he is telling the Parable to by showing that the rich man is alive after his natural death, when in reality he is sleeping until the resurrection?

 

[CoRedeemer]

To answer your question about verse 18 being stated before going into the Parable of the Beggar and the Rich man…Christ’s Church is his body on the earth, it is his bride. To me, I can see Jesus drawing this into his parable of the beggar Lazarus because people in his position are considered part of his Church, his Bride waiting for his return on earth. We see constant examples of those who are poor are rich in spirit; they have not been corrupted by things that wealth can do.

I do understand that Jesus is providing this as an illustration to those he is preaching to; another way of looking at it is he is providing an example of what happens after natural death on the earth. Illustration or not; why would Jesus mislead those he is telling the Parable to by showing that the rich man is alive after his natural death, when in reality he is sleeping until the resurrection?

Hello Kc906,

In fact, saint Paul says in Pilippians 1:23 “So I feel torn between the two. I desire greatly to leave this life and to be with Christ, which will be better by far, but it is necessary for you that I remain in this life.”

Why does Paul desire to leave this life? Well, because it says that he would rather be with the Lord through death or being dead. This is a clear cut teaching, and, he talks about this in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and how he, Paul, to be in his body he is exiled from the Lord, but that he would rather be away from his body to go and live with the Lord. Thus if you continue to read verse 9 and 10 he talks about his house being his body and whether he will loose it or keep on living in it, he wishes only to please the Lord. Verse 10 mentions about he will appear before the tribunal of Christ and how not only he, but even we ourselves will all receive what we deserve for our good or evil deeds in the present life. So, yes, there is life after death, and we all should desire to leave this life in order to be with Christ as Paul says it in Philippians 1:23, but let’s not forget also 2 Corinthians 5:6-10 and how we all must appear before the tribunal of Christ for our good or evil deeds once we die.

 

[CoRedeemer]

Jesus says in Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations. Baptize them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”

Notice how Jesus doesn’t say, “Baptize them in the NAME(S) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Why doesn’t Jesus use a plural? Instead, he uses a singular?

This is the reason why!

Because God’s name is one and, even if Jesus gave three persons in that one singular, not plural “NAME”, He gave Himself the same equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit through that One NAME, not plural (NAMES). This is why He does not say, "Baptize them in the NAME(S) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And read John 5:23, “And He wants all to honor the Son as they honor the Father. Whoever ignores the Son, ignores as well the Father who sent him.” We see Jesus demanding that He receive the Same honour as the Father - Equality.

So he doesn’t use plural when instructing his disciples to Baptize them in the Name, not Name(s), also He wants all men to give Him the same honor as the Father. Don’t kid yourself, Jesus Christ is truly God and truly man.

 

[CoRedeemer]

So what shall we say about John 14:28, “for the Father is greater than I.” Of course, hence Hebrews 2:7-8 says, “For a while you placed him a little lower than the angels, but you crowned him with glory and honor. You have given him dominion over all things.”

Chapter 2 from the letter to the Hebrews explains the reasons why Jesus was for a while lower than the angels. So if he was lower than the angels for a while, then he must have been lower than the heavenly Father, but not anymore since the heavenly Father has crowned him with glory and honor.