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Nicea325
Guest
Yes…weird stuff.
Jehovah Witnesses and the commemoration of Christ's crucifixion
- Status
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Gertabelle
Guest
Wow, thank you all for the information! This is exactly what I was looking for, and I didn’t really want to go poking around their website.
God bless you all!
Gertie
God bless you all!
Gertie
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
The cross being a “torture stake” or upright pole in the theology of the Jehovah’s Witnesses comes from a problematic area in their religion, namely a lack of Biblical language scholarship among their numbers (college education is practically forbidden for members).
Since the New Testament was written in Greek, the Gospel authors had no word for the new Roman invention that came to be known as the “cross.”
Recall that the Greek or Hellenistic world ruled first, after Alexander the Great made his great conquest of what was then believed to be the entire civilized world. Due to his conquest the official tongue of the world was Greek.
The Greeks had a means of capital punishment by which people were nailed to a “stauros” or pale by their hands and feet. However, as everyone knows, the Romans came and conquered all that the Greek world had subdued and more.
The Roman army and government were not to be “outdone” by anyone they conquered, including the form of capital punishment employed by the Greeks. The Romans learned that by adding a crossbeam to the pale upon which to stretch out a criminal’s arms and adding a tiny footrest upon which they nailed the victim, the capital punishment could be extended much longer.
The victim would begin to slowly asphyxiate (largely due to this “improvement” of adding the crossbeam and thus stretching out the chest) as they struggled to keep their lung muscles supported by putting their body weight upon their feet and the tiny footrest–a very painful thing to do. In order to relieve the pain they would then be forced to pull themselves up by their shoulder and upper body muscles which would in turn restart the asphyxiation process, and the vicious cycle would continue until death. (This is why the legs of the criminals nailed beside Jesus were broken to rush their death because without the use of the support at their feet, they would suffocate as a result.)
Since a crossbeam was added to the pale, the Romans, using their own language of Latin, called the instrument a “crux.” But the Greek language had no such word as the “crux” was a Roman invention, unknown to the Greek world before it.
So the Bible writers, when writing in Greek, used two words for “crux,” namely “stauros” which meant “pale” and “xylon” which meant “tree.” Because a tree had branches much like the crossbeam of a cross and because the cross was made of wood, “xylon” became a common word alongside “stauros”–which is why we often say Christ was nailed upon a “tree.”
Now everyone who learns Biblical languages has to learn this part of history, how there was no Greek word for “cross” because it was a relatively new invention at the time. Of course when the texts were written in Latin this was no problem, and because there is archeological evidence and secular writings that support the use of “stauros” for “crux” there is no problem for most of us.
But come the religion of the Watchtower where history and language and higher learning are frowned upon, they do what they can and with what they have to work with, namely if you look up “stauros” in a Greek dictionary (lectionary) you will find the word “stake” or “pale,” because that is what it means*** in Greek***. Unless you are studied in the rest, which they are not, you wouldn’t know that you have to go further than what you can look up in a dictionary.
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Waynec
Guest
Thanks Delson. This is very informative.
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FrankLJ
Guest
I got one of these invitations too, thanks to all who shared their knowledge of this cult.
I am unclear on a couple of points. Do they think he died on a Monday (14april this year), or do they think he died on Friday and commemorate it on the Monday before? The leaflet I got seemed to say he died on Monday, and I was wondering how they got that idea- but I may have misread it, of course.
I am unclear on a couple of points. Do they think he died on a Monday (14april this year), or do they think he died on Friday and commemorate it on the Monday before? The leaflet I got seemed to say he died on Monday, and I was wondering how they got that idea- but I may have misread it, of course.
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
The date the Jehovah’s Witnesses choose for this service of theirs is calculated by using the Jewish calendar date of Nisan 14. It just happened to be a Monday this year in 2014.
Jewish days are reckoned from sunset to sunset, and this year Nisan 14 landed on sundown of Monday April 14 (it never lands on the same day, however, and it was just a coincidence that Nisan and April matched numerically in 2014). If you recall this was also the night Jews around the world began to observe Passover.
So this year of 2014 the Memorial of Christ’s death for the Jehovah’s Witnesses landed on a Monday, just like the first night of Passover did for Jews. But since dates on calendars (both lunar, like the Jewish calendar, and solar, like the Gregorian one we use) do not land on the same day of the week of every year, the literal day of Nisan 14 will float around. The year Jesus died, Nisan 14 began on Thursday night at sundown, and since he died before sunset on Friday, it was still by Jewish calendar reckoning Nisan the 14th.
Basically Nisan 14 always lands on the evening of the full moon on or after the northern spring equinox, known as the “Paschal Full Moon.” This date is very important for the Catholic Church since this is how the Church determines what Sunday to celebrate “Easter” on. “Pascha,” (what we in English call “Easter”*) occurs on the Sunday following the Paschal Full Moon or Nisan 14.
*–It should be noted that except for the English-speaking world, these observances surrounding this date are known as “Pascha” by Catholics and Jews alike. The word means “Passover,” and for Catholics it is the celebration of Christ’s Passover from death to life. Once mistakenly attributed as being the name of a pagan goddess, recent etymology study reveals that the word “Easter” comes from a mistake of misreading the Latin instruction for wearing “white vestments” for Easter Week and its transliteration into Old High German as “eostrum.” This word carried over to English, but the rest of the Christian world kept the name of the Jewish festival, Passover, for the event related to Jesus’ resurrection.
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Matt_Guitar_Man
Guest
It is very sad that they teach that just like Gods love, humane love is also conditional.
W
WKW_69
Guest
Many Christians take into consideration Paul’s writing about not being tied into unbelievers.
Yes, My brother and I haven’t talked in twenty plus years. That happens often in families.
The Amish are a Christian sect that dis-fellowships and disowns adult children that turn away from their brand of Christianity… That doesn’t make them a dangerous “cult”.
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
The points you bring up are valid but aren’t representative of exactly what is happening with the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
To illustrate, the official doctrinal view of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that unbelievers are to be literally hated and classified as servants of Satan, and not as children of God who might be going astray and deserving of help to return, as Catholics believe.–Compare James 5:19-20.
Their official journal, the Watchtower, in its issue of July 15, 2011, stated that those who reject their religious doctrine are “mentally diseased.” It’s current July 15, 2014 issue adds that any who deviate from their official dogma are nothing other but “devious" and that other Witnesses must “completely avoid" these people, even at the expense of helping to lead them back to their religion. Witnesses who do not follow this direction or disagree with this instruction are themselves to be made subject for excommunication and similar rejection. Those who are made subject to such excommunication are to be literally hated from the heart, not even spoken to.
While other groups may practice something similar, this does not make these sort of actions or attitudes right or just.
And the direction at 2 Corinthians 6 is in regard to those who, in Paul’s time, were still engaging in pagan ritual and mysticism, including ritual acts that included immorality and moral uncleanness. His directives were about separating oneself from what was not compatible with Christian worship, not about shunning family members or calling others “mentally diseased” because of holding a different conscientious view.–Compare St. Paul’s words at Romans 14:4.
The view of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that you and your loved ones, because you are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, are automatically part of Satan’s world and worthy of nothing but being hated by them and God–unless you join them and renounce the Church and all members of your family and friends who do not join with you.
While you may not consider that enough to call them a “dangerous cult,” (and I am not of the opinion that they are what everyone considers a cult) such views in themselves are dangerous to family ties and as well as contrary to the practice of tolerance.
Again your views are valid based on what you might be perceiving, but what the Witnesses practice is a type of intolerance that makes not talking to a sibling for many years look like a tea party with cupcakes.
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Winston_Smith
Guest
JW Memorials are conducted in a matter-of-fact way, with a certain amount of reverence, but with what I would call a relatively cold clinical approach as if viewing the event of Jesus’ death at a far distance.
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
Governing Body Arranges for Memorial (Communion) Without Bread and Wine
Even though the Governing Body has repeatedly told Witnesses not to do so, a Jehovah’s Witness missionary living in Guinea has created a blog to highlight her religion and the work of spreading it in Africa. In it, the missionary reports that the Governing Body had issued special instructions for her area to conduct the Memorial of Christ’s death (this past Monday April 14, 2001) WITHOUT the use of the emblems of bread and wine due to an outbreak of Ebola in the area.
Instead of following their usual annual communion-like service, all that was offered was a sermon about the importance of the day. Such an arrangement was followed* even though no Ebola had been reported in the missionary’s area,* and many JWs who heard about it were praising the arrangement, including the missionary who saw it as a sign that ‘Jehovah was providing for them.’
No One Gets Counted
While the reason given in the directive was stated to be due to disease prevention, the arrangement also suggested that the Governing Body was not going to be counting anyone in that region of Africa who claimed to be of the anointed remnant. The whole reason for holding the Memorial, according to official Witness doctrine, is to offer those members of the 144,000 to “keep doing this in memory of me,” namely partaking of the bread and wine to memorialize Jesus’ death.–Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24.
For over 100 years this counting of the last remaining members of the 144,000 has been done among the Witnesses at each memorial since only these ones may partake of the bread and wine emblems. And these emblems of bread and wine were always made present in the past come war, pestilence, and even when the Witnesses were imprisoned by the Nazis.
But last Monday’s “special arrangement” was now being touted by the missionary as a preparation for other areas of the world during war and the coming days before the end of the world. Anointed members among the JWs have over the past decades faced death in order to keep the annual bread-and-wine memorial, but now the Governing Body tells them not to take such risks: just hold communion without bread and wine altogether.
Again this was just in Guinea, and the missionary is the one making the comment that last Monday’s Memorial was likely to be a future arrangement for other parts of the JW world in times of upcoming stress.
While the prevention of spreading disease is of great importance, it is a wonder that the Governing Body did not instruct members to hold individual home or personal memorials instead of just forbidding the use of bread and wine altogether. In the past this was done in order to keep from breaking Christ’s command to hold the Last Supper as they understand it.
The Last Memorial?
Several other peculiar things have occurred with this year’s Memorial. The Governing Body recently posed the following question in their monthly preaching journal, Our Kingdom Ministry: “Will this Memorial be our last?” While claiming they could not say for certain, they did add that this year’s Memorial would offer “a unique opportunity for showing gratitude.”
Add to this is a comment from an inside source who has been discussing the “time of the end” with the members of the Governing Body’s Writing Department (those who write the sermons and the Watchtower articles, etc.). The source alleges that members of the Writing Department are convinced the “end of the world” will happen any day now. This inside source consists of a number of individuals who are currently being hunt down by the Governing Body, one of which was recently caught and excommunicated.
While I personally understand the need for precautions in Africa, I do know from a member of their anointed remnant who has been partaking for several years that such demands would be unheard of in the past since the use of the emblems is a life-or-death command, or at least understood as such by the anointed among them.
And while I am sure it can be just end-of-the-world rhetoric used by the Governing Body to question whether this could be the “last” observance of the Memorial, I do think something is up.
The number of partakers of the bread and wine is supposed to be dropping as a proof that the end of the world is upon us all. But the number has risen by 5000 since the late 1980s. The Governing Body has tried to control the number of new partakers over the past 10 years without any success, and now it has become a means of embarrassment for them. If what happened in some parts of the world are foreshadows of a new arrangement for the JWs, it appears that the “number of decreasing partakers” will no longer be considered a “proof” that the JWs use to claim we are living in the end. The number of partakers, at least in this part of Africa are of no interest this year to the Governing Body.
I would not hold it past them to look for any reason to stop the annual Memorial altogether or at least keep the communion bread and wine away from anyone they do not hold worthy of possessing a heavenly hope.
Even though the Governing Body has repeatedly told Witnesses not to do so, a Jehovah’s Witness missionary living in Guinea has created a blog to highlight her religion and the work of spreading it in Africa. In it, the missionary reports that the Governing Body had issued special instructions for her area to conduct the Memorial of Christ’s death (this past Monday April 14, 2001) WITHOUT the use of the emblems of bread and wine due to an outbreak of Ebola in the area.
Instead of following their usual annual communion-like service, all that was offered was a sermon about the importance of the day. Such an arrangement was followed* even though no Ebola had been reported in the missionary’s area,* and many JWs who heard about it were praising the arrangement, including the missionary who saw it as a sign that ‘Jehovah was providing for them.’
No One Gets Counted
While the reason given in the directive was stated to be due to disease prevention, the arrangement also suggested that the Governing Body was not going to be counting anyone in that region of Africa who claimed to be of the anointed remnant. The whole reason for holding the Memorial, according to official Witness doctrine, is to offer those members of the 144,000 to “keep doing this in memory of me,” namely partaking of the bread and wine to memorialize Jesus’ death.–Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24.
For over 100 years this counting of the last remaining members of the 144,000 has been done among the Witnesses at each memorial since only these ones may partake of the bread and wine emblems. And these emblems of bread and wine were always made present in the past come war, pestilence, and even when the Witnesses were imprisoned by the Nazis.
But last Monday’s “special arrangement” was now being touted by the missionary as a preparation for other areas of the world during war and the coming days before the end of the world. Anointed members among the JWs have over the past decades faced death in order to keep the annual bread-and-wine memorial, but now the Governing Body tells them not to take such risks: just hold communion without bread and wine altogether.
Again this was just in Guinea, and the missionary is the one making the comment that last Monday’s Memorial was likely to be a future arrangement for other parts of the JW world in times of upcoming stress.
While the prevention of spreading disease is of great importance, it is a wonder that the Governing Body did not instruct members to hold individual home or personal memorials instead of just forbidding the use of bread and wine altogether. In the past this was done in order to keep from breaking Christ’s command to hold the Last Supper as they understand it.
The Last Memorial?
Several other peculiar things have occurred with this year’s Memorial. The Governing Body recently posed the following question in their monthly preaching journal, Our Kingdom Ministry: “Will this Memorial be our last?” While claiming they could not say for certain, they did add that this year’s Memorial would offer “a unique opportunity for showing gratitude.”
Add to this is a comment from an inside source who has been discussing the “time of the end” with the members of the Governing Body’s Writing Department (those who write the sermons and the Watchtower articles, etc.). The source alleges that members of the Writing Department are convinced the “end of the world” will happen any day now. This inside source consists of a number of individuals who are currently being hunt down by the Governing Body, one of which was recently caught and excommunicated.
While I personally understand the need for precautions in Africa, I do know from a member of their anointed remnant who has been partaking for several years that such demands would be unheard of in the past since the use of the emblems is a life-or-death command, or at least understood as such by the anointed among them.
And while I am sure it can be just end-of-the-world rhetoric used by the Governing Body to question whether this could be the “last” observance of the Memorial, I do think something is up.
The number of partakers of the bread and wine is supposed to be dropping as a proof that the end of the world is upon us all. But the number has risen by 5000 since the late 1980s. The Governing Body has tried to control the number of new partakers over the past 10 years without any success, and now it has become a means of embarrassment for them. If what happened in some parts of the world are foreshadows of a new arrangement for the JWs, it appears that the “number of decreasing partakers” will no longer be considered a “proof” that the JWs use to claim we are living in the end. The number of partakers, at least in this part of Africa are of no interest this year to the Governing Body.
I would not hold it past them to look for any reason to stop the annual Memorial altogether or at least keep the communion bread and wine away from anyone they do not hold worthy of possessing a heavenly hope.
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
Follow Up on “No Bread & Wine” Communion
The following was brought to my attention regarding the above information:
The following was brought to my attention regarding the above information:
- A significant increase in Memorial partakers (of the bread and wine) has been linked to an increase in new members in African countries. The Governing Body has been trying to get the number to decrease, teaching relatively new partakers that ‘mental instability’ and ‘pride’ are sure factors of their decision to partake of the bread and wine at the Memorial, but this has not worked up till now.
- According to official Watchtower doctrine, only those who consider themselves members of the 144,000 are under a command to attend the Memorial and partake of the bread and wine as a public witness to their being included in this special group. The majority are supposed to be onlookers ONLY, and are not obliged to be there like members of the 144,000. Meetings could have been canceled for everyone not obliged to attend.
- Ebola outbreaks are prevented by lack of exposure to others carrying the virus; the Governing Body increased the number of “breadless/wine-less” Memorial gatherings, instructing them to be made of smaller groups made up of people from scattered areas. Removing the emblems of bread and wine was said to be done to decrease the chance of spread through tactile exposure, but all the participants were told to write down sermon points and Scripture texts and take these back to their separate homes after the meeting. This raised the chance of tactile exposure through likely sharing of writing utensils and paper.
- The Governing Body *expected partakers *at these meetings that they removed the bread and wine from, otherwise why remove them claiming that Ebola could be spread by their use?
- Their official doctrine teaches that those who are under obligation to partake but miss the opportunity to do so on the actual Memorial date must do so one lunar month from the date of the actual Memorial (it is that important), providing their own emblems of bread and wine. Obviously the Governing Body felt that any claimants this year from this part of the world would not be legitimate.
- This new direction came on the heels of the Governing Body instructing all members that directives from them “may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.”
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boomerang
Guest
It seems that if the real reason for denying the ‘emblems’ at services in Africa is to prevent ebola, they could just set the emblems up front on a table and only let the ‘anointed’ go up and partake rather than passing it from person to person. Of course we know their true motives. In order to justify their theology, the number of ‘anointed’ needs to go down, not up. Africans are not cooperating. Good for them. I pray they will tire of not partaking and come home to the Catholic Church where everyone partakes.
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Gicutzu
Guest
How can you possibly know if you’re one of the 144,000 or not?
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
According to the JW doctrine, one receives an internal witness through the Holy Spirit that hey have been chosen for life in heaven. Those who do not have this internal witness are chosen to live on earth for all eternity.
The Witnesses teach that God began to choose the 144,000 in the first century, beginning with the apostles. They have also stated that the “remaining” ones of this number, remarkably enough, all claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses and of no other religion (proof positive that theirs is the one true faith!).
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bigdave3119
Guest
Thanks to all of you that have posted on this forum my knowledge of what JW’s teach and believe has been greatly increased! It is important to me only as I am able to witness to them of my Catholic Faith.
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FrankLJ
Guest
You just get a feeling? What if more than 144,000 people get the feeling?
You seem to know a lot about this, so maybe you could clear up something about the 144,000: I had heard that they had all been picked in 1914, and the End would come before they all died. Is this right? If so, what was the justification for changing it, and what is the official teaching now? I can see they might have a crisis of belief if the last of the 144,000 died and nothing happened, if they had all been picked in 1914. That was a hundred years ago!
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DelsonJacobs
Guest
You hit the nail on the head, because this is the dilemma we are talking about here that the Governing Body of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is having to make sense of through a public display of cognitive dissonance.
Originally, the Witnesses believed that the 144,000 had been chosen by 1914 and that they would leave their bodies behind as they went to heaven to be with the Lord in October of that year. (The end of the world was supposed to begin then too.)
Of course that didn’t happen, but they wouldn’t be shaken from their belief that they were the only ones in the correct religion (even if they weren’t preaching anything that was correct). And their numbers, strangely enough, began to grow. It’s a very appealing thing to the ego to “know” you are in the “only God-approved” religion–or at least be in a group that supports your conviction about this.
So what did they do? They adjusted their beliefs. Since they didn’t go to heaven in October of 1914 and World War I broke out, they believed they were witnessing the “great tribulation.” They were on the threshold of the world’s end, and the fact they were still on earth must mean that God had not filled the number of 144,000.
While they expected the World War to end in Armageddon, they had to adjust their beliefs again when peace came to the earth. “This must mean God wants us to find the remaining 144,000 members,” they told themselves. So off they went to preach. “Once the number is filled,” they believed, “the great tribulation will start again.” They called the time of peace the “eye of the storm” before Armageddon.
But in the late 1920s they had gathered far more than 100,000 members. Not all could be going to heaven. So they claimed to have been enlightened with a “new belief,” one that was actually taken from Catholicism (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 1042). They claimed that God was gathering people who would survive into a 'new earth" with the popular sermon (and book of the same name): “Millions Now Living Will Never Die.” When they finalized their doctrine about “two classes” being saved–one to go to heaven and another “new” group to live on a paradise earth–it was 1935. So they claimed that God had closed the door to the heaven hope in 1935. The remaining ones were now the “teaching class” that God chose to bring the gospel to those who would inherit the New Earth. Only the members of the “teaching class” could partake of the bread and wine at their yearly communion, however.
But the end did not come, even with the outbreak of World War II (which at first they believed was the return of the great tribulation). And when peace came their numbers continued to grow, out of which arose relatively new ones claiming they were of the 144,000 too.
These relatively new ones faced great opposition from their own ranks and have had to endure decades of bullying from their own members, even though the official doctrine was that some of these “might” be replacements for members who failed to remain faithful until death. As long as the number of remaining ones of the 144,000 showed a steadily decrease of yearly partakers at the annual Memorial of Christ’s Death all was well, because the decrease was a “proof” that they were approaching the end…as most or all the 144,000 were expected to be in heaven by the time Armageddon came.
The number of remaining ones got as low as around 8.000, around the time I left the JWs. Afterwards the numbers increased to about 13,400 or more (a report from the number announced at the Memorial sermon from this year was that there were 13,600 partakers last year).
The increase moved the Governing Body to do two things:
- Declare that their belief that 1935 was the cut-off date for God “calling people to heaven” was no longer official doctrine.
- Claim that the 144,000 had no special status among them as the “teaching class”; members of the Governing Body were the only ones who could rightly claim to be of that special teaching group.
S
seanman611
Guest
So, you agree with the way Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret and apply that passage?
What a cold thing to say. My brother will not talk to my sister for one reason, she is disfellowshipped. They were very close before the disfellowshipping happened. They also limit their contact with the rest of the family these days because of the we are considered to be of the world and “bad” association. The problems in my family are not the result of hard feelings or of any other kind of trama, but are the direct result of religious belief and the influence of men living in Brooklyn on their life. If you have never been in this cult, then I would say you have no idea what it is like and just how much it damaged me and my mother’s side of the family.
I was completely cut off from spending time with any of my school friends and the time I could spend with my wordly family was limited. I also faced the social humiliation of not standing up for the Pledge of Allegiance or being able to participate in music class during holidays. I was told by elders that demons would come for me if I played violent video games or listened to “bad” music. I was also told that the end of the world could come at any time and that I would be destroyed forever if I wasn’t a good boy and faithful to Jehovah. My family on my mother’s side is completely divided and it is a mess. I was completely isolated and alone.
Do you realize that I will carry a ruined childhood with me and have to deal with a divided family all of my life? Do you realize the hurt and pain that some of these memories still cause me? How dare you tell me what is and what isn’t a cult and how dare you try to minimize the hurt and pain that my family is still dealing with. I realize that nobody’s life is perfect and all face problems, but this cult nearly destroyed my life. In the future be a little more sensitive and if you didn’t go through it, don’t try to be the expert. Your post was very insensitive and hurtful.
- Status