Jehovah witnesses

[Ginkgo100]

None of that is true. Who told you that? Or did you make it up?

Of course I did not make it up. As for the required hours, I heard it on an archived CAL broadcast that was an interview with a former JW. Unfortunately it’s one of the episodes no longer available due to music licensing. What part is mistaken? I want to always have correct information. I do know that certain “levels” of ministry, like Pioneer, expect a higher number of hours, but I also understand that entering those levels is voluntary. I did find a pro-JW website that seems to indicate that the minimum weekly hours are “suggested,” not required, for the ordinary Witness.

As for the oppressive nature of the Watchtower Society, I’m going to stand by that. I like conversion stories, and converts from almost any other background have overall positive stories, but stories from ex-JWs are terrifying. Even accounting for the chip ex-JWs may have on their shoulder, the overall picture is not positive. Even reading about congregational discipline from more neutral sources gives me the creeps. When I say there is no “Reconciliation,” I mean no analogue of the Catholic sacrament, whose secrecy is absolutely sacrosanct, and which ends in full absolution of sins in all but the most egregious cases. Even excommunication is usually secret unless the act that led to it is public. Finally, there is no shunning in modern Catholicism; in the past it has been tried, but only in very rare cases.

Kinda true. many declare they are a Catholic and knows the Bible. But a few questions quickly show they do not even know what God’s Kingdom is (which they pray for constantly and is the main theme of the Bible) and can not show you even basic things from the Bible. They then usually remember they are busy and shut the door.

Catholicism has a rich teaching on the Kingdom of Heaven, but in my experience it’s often not expressed clearly in our classes and homilies. My own understanding was vague until my JW friends started visiting regularly; their challenges led me to learn more about my faith in this area. Here’s what part of the problem may be: According to Catholic theology, the Kingdom is both here and coming. That is, when the Church was established Christ’s Kingdom began, but all things will not be fully subject to him until he comes again at the end of time. This is a little like the JW idea that Christ returned in 1914, but not all things are fully subject to him yet.

I would challenge the idea that the Kingdom is “the” main theme of the Bible; from my studies, it would be more accurate to say that it’s “a” main theme of the Bible. Like any deep, rich text, the Scriptures have more than one key theme; these include the Kingdom, the covenants, sin and redemption, and God’s fatherly love. None can be ignored without detriment.

Why? They might call on an atheist next and convince him there is a God and the Bible is his word.

From a Catholic point of view, the JW theology is so full of error—and the Watchtower Society so abusive—that thwarting the work can only be a good thing. For a JW, Jesus is not God, and you will almost certainly not be with Jehovah in heaven. No matter many butterflies and rainbows are in the Paradise Earth, that’s a bleak future compared to what the Catholic Church promises.

Have you ever wanted to get closer to Jehovah, but just can’t seem to? The full gospel message is a message of hope without fear, of freedom from anxiety. God wants to come to know you and to enter your heart in the most intimate way.

 

[James_Miller]

It seems that the start the JW have had an obsession with the end of the world – Which Jesus told us not to speculate about. The 1914 never made sense but it was modified into millions living in 1914 would never see death. This was printed on the onside cover of every Watchtower. I suppose that computers can show that there are not millions living now who were alive in 1914. So it had been changed.

You public library probably has a copy of CHILDREN published by the WT in 1930. But this is a tearjerker so don’t read it if sad. John and Mary were deeply in love and planning to get married. But then they realized that the end of the world was so near they would not have time to raise children. So they parted to spend their lives knocking on doors. They are in their mid-90’s now and I assume still knocking on doors. If they had had children and then grandchildren, then there would be more people knocking on doors.

When I took my 8 year course from Thomas and Maria Angles They had the course book in Spanish and I had mine in English. (this helped my Spanish as their translations were good) I asked them if they would like me to teach then English so the could read in the original all the material from Brooklyn. They said “Jimmy the end of the world is so close we would not have time to learn English”. That must have been 20 years ago.

 

[jtodisco]

As someone who is close friends with a former JW (who was so alienated by their former faith that they became a pagan for a few years and are now an agnostic) I have heard plenty of “interesting” things about the JW religion. Especially since some of their family is still part of that religion and as a result this causes them and their loved ones a great deal of pain.

The required hours issue is true. Sure, they might not actually say it is “required” but no one can ever get away with saying “no I don’t feel like going door to door”. Also, there is a definite pecking order that helps to keep anyone who might be questioning aspects of their faith in line through intimidation. Also, for a religion that doesn’t believe in hell they are awfully unforgiving of their members who make mistakes. The fact that they shun people who either leave or are forced out of their religion is beyond disturbing. My friend’s family, for instance, is not supposed to even speak to them. They are supposed to treat them as if they were dead and if caught spending time with them they could risk being expelled as well.

I also love how the JW’s still manage to survive as a religion despite their false claims about the end of the world. The latest revision of those claims from what I understand is that the world will end before the last person born in 1914 dies. I wonder how they plan to know when the last person born in 1914 dies, there were countless people born in that year from less developed nations who probably don’t have a birth certificate to verify the year they were born. This uncertainty will surely help keep people believing even after the last person born in that year has since passed away. And eventually a new twist will be added, the JW “Old Lights” will be corrected again.

The bottom line is that the JW religion is not Christian. It is an example of what happens when personal interpretations of the Bible go wild. The word “Trinity” doesn’t appear in the Bible, so the theology of the Trinity gets tossed. Yet at the same time tricky phrases in Scripture that allude to the Trinity are altered so as to not conflict with JW beliefs (i.e. The Father and I are one, the Gospel according to John’s opening statement, etc.). To deny the divinity of Christ is the most disgusting distortion of the Truth I can imagine.

Also, like another poster pointed out, I find it hilarious that people who only wish to rely on personal interpretations of the Bible don’t stop to think about the fact that the Bible was compiled by the Church. That a council went through the trouble to determine which books were to be included as true and which were to be left out as false or at least uncertain. The same kind of councils that also made decisions concerning issues such as belief in the Trinity, the dual natures of Christ, etc. So if you reject the authority of the councils you should reject the entire Bible.

The Protestant Bible was edited by just one man only a few hundred years ago who deemed himself worthy to throw out books that for over one thousand years at that point had been part of Sacred Scripture (and are still part of Sacred Scripture for the largest group of Christians on the planet). So the very book that people insist needs to be read without any consideration given to Tradition was created through that very Tradition which they reject and edited on the whim of one man.

 

[ccsh]

I am a Catholic convert. Back in the year 2000, some JW came to visit me on a regular basis. They were nice old ladies who seemed sincere, and being so new to the faith, I was easy to question. They left me material which I read and questioned. One of their magazines said the exact date that the world was to end. I knew that the Bible says that no one, not even the son knows the time, but in my newness as a convert I was confused. So I prayed that God would show me the truth. The very next Sunday at mass, the priest spoke on this very topic and quoted the Bible verses on how only God knows the time set aside for the end of the world. I immediately packed up my JW material and left it on the doorstep on the next day they were supposed to come back. I asked them to leave me alone and I haven’t seem them since.

Now, I would be much better prepared to talk with them!

 

[mason4220]

Hello All,
The best advice i can give anyone is to know your faith. It is not enough to just read the bible but you also have to study church history. JW’s have no answer for history but they can throw bible verses at you all day.
Also Look into the ares where the JW’s changed bible verses to suite their doctrine. This also is really difficult for even the most informed JW to answer.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

This past week, I had three very nice middle aged Jehovah Witness ladies visit.

One of them [the ringleader] asked if I knew why they were visiting with me. I replied, with GREAT enthusiasm and a BIG smile: “YES!, I do: it is so I can try to convince you to become Catholic.”

I don’t think they ever heard THAT ONE BEFORE!

She asked why Catholics don’t do that … go door-to-door if the Catholic Church is the true faith … and I said that she is absolutely right, that the failure of Catholics to evangelize is THE major scandal of our time. … “And that’s why we need YOU!”

They started with some New Testament passage, but I interrupted and turned their bible to John 6. It was physically difficult not only because of the small print, but because each page had two narrow columns of text separated by some references. So it was hard to read.

But I had read John 6:20-70 so many times, I practically had it memorized.

They said, “oh, you take John 6 literally”. And I said that John 6 is the central point of Christian belief.

They came back and said the bible forbids cannibalism. I asked where in the bible does it refer to the event of John 6 as cannibalism? AND also where does it say that Jesus called out after the crowd that Jesus was only kidding.

I asked them: how can you turn 2000 years of Christian teaching upside down with an interpretation that is only a hundred years old?

[If they come back, I think I am going to focus in on the nature of God and the nature of Jesus and how God’s ability to transform is different from our understanding … part of the problem is our human limitations of understanding … that after Jesus’ resurrection, He was “different” … and even the Apostles did not recognize Him on the road to Emmaeus.]

We had a good time chatting, but it was a very warm day and the eldest lady began to show some signs of physical distress from the heat. Actually, both of the other ladies and I were all concerned about her well-being, so they took their leave for the comfort of the air conditioning of their car.

They asked if they could come back and I said yes and that the Mormons frequently visited and we had interesting meetings.

My wife dug out all of the Catholic Answers literature as well as some other easy-to-read Catholic items … if they come back, I will try to persuade them to take some Catholic literature.

A few years ago a JW [married] couple came by and said they were former Catholics. I asked them some questions and it turned out they knew NOTHING about any aspect of Catholicism. I felt bad for them. I reprimanded them severely: how can you go around passing yourselves off as former Catholics when you don’t know anything … before you go around on any more JW visits, you MUST do some homework and educate yourselves on what the Catholic Church really teaches.

Never saw them again.

Between you and me, I think what these individual people really need is a “cult experience” … something that is all-consuming … 7-days-a-week. And I don’t mean that in any complimentary sort of way; their personalities are … “vulnerable”.

There is nothing in any of the Christian denominations that are that demanding.

So these poor folks are vulnerable to a cult.

I just pray to the Holy Spirit to put the right words on my tongue.

 

[PDX_Catholic]

I don’t know if their faith, “requires them to knock on doors”, but certainly neighborhood canvasing is a strong and widely used method in their ministry.

Personally I don’t care if they come knocking…I just tell them that I am Catholic and will forever be Catholic.

If they offer me something I take it and drop it in the trash.

Peace
James

Very good answer but I have one suggestion. When they give you something to read put it in the recycle bin instead of the trash!

 

[Yerusalyim]

I was married to a now former JW for 11 years. After two years of marriage she and two of her three children left the JWs…she is now Catholic.

JWs aren’t “required” to go door-to-door, but if they don’t they are considered spiritually weak, and often marked as a “bad association.” Ten hours a month used to be the “recommended” amount of time spent “preaching” door to door…it’s down somewhat now.
They have “pioneers” that are missionaries essentially. To qualify as a full time pioneer one had to devote 120 hours a month to “preaching”…that’s now down to 80 or so.

Catholics do have a door to door ministry…I used to be a part of it…and I believe the Legion of Mary has a door to door ministry as well.

When I JW shows me the charitable organizations the society runs…the hospitals it sponsors…that it really lives by the scriptures that say true religion is in the care of widows and orphans…I’ll consider they might finally realize what the gospel is all about.

 

[Aussieman88]

Catholics who leave our church and join the JW have left because they’ve been to our church, they didn’t see the glory of God at church. The holy spirit was not felt by them. We don’t teach properly, I believe, about the holy spirit.

In the days after Jesus rose, the apostles roamed the world. The holy spirit used them to perform great miracles and healings. They spread the gifts of the holy spirit to others with the laying on of hands. All the gifts of the holy spirit were visible to the masses. What a way to glorify God than to heal someone in Jesus name. Then preach the gospels to them.

THESE MIRACLES, HEALINGS ETC. THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE JUST AS ACTIVE IN THE WORLD TODAY AS THEY WERE BACK THEN.

I was always told about the Holy Spirit, growing up catholic, but no one told me this stuff was still possible. If our people see the glory of God at our own churches then they won’t go searching elsewhere.

We need a shake up, a wake up and some better homily’s.

Dicko…

 

[Ginkgo100]

Catholics who leave our church and join the JW have left because they’ve been to our church, they didn’t see the glory of God at church. The holy spirit was not felt by them. We don’t teach properly, I believe, about the holy spirit.

In the days after Jesus rose, the apostles roamed the world. The holy spirit used them to perform great miracles and healings. They spread the gifts of the holy spirit to others with the laying on of hands. All the gifts of the holy spirit were visible to the masses. What a way to glorify God than to heal someone in Jesus name. Then preach the gospels to them.

THESE MIRACLES, HEALINGS ETC. THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE JUST AS ACTIVE IN THE WORLD TODAY AS THEY WERE BACK THEN.

I was always told about the Holy Spirit, growing up catholic, but no one told me this stuff was still possible. If our people see the glory of God at our own churches then they won’t go searching elsewhere.

We need a shake up, a wake up and some better homily’s.

Dicko…

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Holy Spirit is not a person, that He (they say “it”) is just God’s “active force.” (I even once heard my JW friend pray for “a measure of holy spirit”.) They are adamant that the charismatic gifts were limited to the first century or so after Christ, and they do not believe in modern-day faith healing or other miracles. They are very much the opposite of modern Pentecostals in theology and practice.

Catholics who leave the Church for the JW religion usually are both poorly catechized and vulnerable (especially the latter). They either don’t know the Bible well, or think they don’t, and are impressed by JW Biblical window-dressing. (Most JWs actually are familiar only with those parts of the Bible that the Watchtower emphasizes.) They have absorbed a bit of sola scriptura mentality from the culture and they are comfortable with an authoritative religious structure.

The moral: Don’t engage them in debate if you’re in an emotionally or spiritually vulnerable place, and then only if you really know your faith.

 

[Ginkgo100]

I was married to a now former JW for 11 years. After two years of marriage she and two of her three children left the JWs…she is now Catholic.

JWs aren’t “required” to go door-to-door, but if they don’t they are considered spiritually weak, and often marked as a “bad association.” Ten hours a month used to be the “recommended” amount of time spent “preaching” door to door…it’s down somewhat now.
They have “pioneers” that are missionaries essentially. To qualify as a full time pioneer one had to devote 120 hours a month to “preaching”…that’s now down to 80 or so.

Catholics do have a door to door ministry…I used to be a part of it…and I believe the Legion of Mary has a door to door ministry as well.

When I JW shows me the charitable organizations the society runs…the hospitals it sponsors…that it really lives by the scriptures that say true religion is in the care of widows and orphans…I’ll consider they might finally realize what the gospel is all about.

Do you know any more about active Catholic door-to-door ministry?

 

[DTrent]

What is it that attracts some Catholics to the Jehovah Witnesses? I can’t stand when they go knocking on doors. I notice that many of them are fallen away Catholics.

Does their faith require them to proselytize by knocking on doors?

Basically it’s questions that havn’t been answered satisfactorily to Catholics (& other religions) that attracts them to JW’s & the Bible.

“Knocking on doors” is the best way to personally reach people with God’s Word & it was how it was done in Jesus’ day and by other true Christians afterwards. - Matt. 24:14.

Yes, many are former Catholics but many came out of other faiths, too.
The majority of JW’s came out of other religions.