Jehovah?

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why do Jw’s emphatically express God’s name?

As a friend mentioned, she loves being a JW because its the only faith that “glorify” god’s name.

what is the Church’s position regarding this? may be used to counter this?
 
See this Youtube Video to see the latest Catholic decision concerning the proper name of God

It is forbidden for Catholics to use any form of the Divine Name , by Papal degree in Nov. 2008

youtube.com/watch?v=NEj7yy6lUMs

Kindest regards and Jehovah’s Blessing

Emeth, The Netherlands
 
why do Jw’s emphatically express God’s name?

As a friend mentioned, she loves being a JW because its the only faith that “glorify” god’s name.

what is the Church’s position regarding this? may be used to counter this?
The JW’s ABUSE God’s name while calling it Glorifying His name. The Commandment reads, “You shall not use the name of God for vain purposes” The Catholic Church has always followed the example of the Jews before us…INCLUDING JESUS…of not pronouncing God’s name. The Jews believed God’s name was sacred and it was pronounced only once a year…by the High Priest…in the Holy of Holies and then only whispered. Inspite of what JWs will tell you, Jesus did not pronounce the name of God either…it would have been viewed as blasphemy and he would have been stoned to death for it.

This is based in part because the ancients believed that saying a name gave one power over the person because the name revealed something essential about the nature of individual. The Jewish people used to have mystics known as “Masters of the Good Name” who would heal the sick, etc based on private use of God’s name. The legend of the GOLIM is also tied to use (rather, misuse) of God’s name.

Now, the Jewish (and Christian) avoidance of the use of God’s name is based in the Commandments, as I stated before…not using God’s name for vain purposes. Inspite of what the JWs will attempt to tell you, Jesus didn’t use God’s name and it was NEVER EVER written in the New Testament.

So what is meant by making God’s name known and Glorifying God’s name? First, God’s name is a TITLE…There is only one God…why would he need a name? The name of God reveals God’s nature I AM THAT I AM. Making God’s name known meant simply making the nature and goodness of God known. To glorify God’s name means to honor and glorify what God is doing for us.

Now where in scripture will you find the command to use God’s name in prayer…or anywhere else for that matter. This is just one more example of the JWs attempting to create something unique about themselves…but they can’t base it on the example of the Jews or the first Christians.
 
See this Youtube Video to see the latest Catholic decision concerning the proper name of God

It is forbidden for Catholics to use any form of the Divine Name , by Papal degree in Nov. 2008

youtube.com/watch?v=NEj7yy6lUMs

Kindest regards and Jehovah’s Blessing

Emeth, The Netherlands
Emeth,

No, it’s not “forbidden for Catholics to use any form of the Divine Name” The Church, does however, honor the practice of the Jews who came before us and to refrain from pronouncing God’s name IN LITURGICAL SETTINGS…This is a RULE as oppossed to a DOCTRINE…and it reinforces a practice of the Church that’s been around for 2000 years. So I as a Catholic sitting at home can say Yahweh as much and as often as I want. You, however, in a Kingdom Hall setting…or even in private conversation with other JWs would quickly become suspect if you did not say “Jehovah”…which is a mistranslation of the divine name…which brings us to another problem ya’ll have…aside from mispronouncing Yahweh as Jehovah…it’s not known exactly how God’s name is to be pronounced because the Jews didn’t have vowels.
 
See this Youtube Video to see the latest Catholic decision concerning the proper name of God

It is forbidden for Catholics to use any form of the Divine Name , by Papal degree in Nov. 2008
Um, no.

Rather, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (*Papal decree *if you will) has directed that the ineffable name of God not be pronounced in the Church’s liturgy, and is to be translated (when necessary) according to established customs and prescriptions.

You may read it here: CDWDS Directives on the Name of God.

tee
 
Now, the Jewish (and Christian) avoidance of the use of God’s name is based in the Commandments, as I stated before, not using God’s name for vain purposes.
**
When did the superstition take hold?
**
Some claim that it began following the Babylonian exile (607-537B.C.E.). This theory, however is based on a supposed reduction in the use of the name by the later writers of the Hebrew Scriptures,a view that does not hold up under examination. Malachi,for example,was evidently one of the last books of the Hebrew Scriptures written (in the latter half of the fifth centuryB.C.E.),and it gives great prominence to the divine name

Many reference works have suggested that the name ceased to be used by about 300B.C.E. Evidence for this date supposedly was found in the absence of the Tetragrammaton (or a transliteration of it) in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, begun about 280B.C.E. It is true that the most complete manuscript copies of the Septuagint now known do consistently follow the practice of substituting the Greek words Ky′ri‧os (Lord) or The‧os′ (God) for the Tetragrammaton. But these major manuscripts date back only as far as the fourth and fifth centuries*C.E. More ancient copies, though in fragmentary form, have been discovered that prove that the earliest copies of the Septuagint did contain the divine name.

One of these is the fragmentary remains of a papyrus roll of a portion of Deuteronomy, listed as P.Fouad Inventory No. 266. (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 326) It regularly presents the Tetragrammaton, written in square Hebrew characters, in each case of its appearance in the Hebrew text being translated. This papyrus is dated by scholars as being from the first centuryB.C.E., and thus it was written four or five centuries earlier than the manuscripts mentioned previously.

When did the Jews in general actually stop pronouncing the personal name of God?

At least in written form, there is no sound evidence of any disappearance or disuse of the divine name in theB.C.E. period. In the first centuryC.E.,there first appears some evidence of a superstitious attitude toward the name. Josephus,a Jewish historian from a priestly family, when recounting God’s revelation to Moses at the site of the burning bush, says: “Then God revealed to him His name, which ere then had not come to men’s ears, and of which I am forbidden to speak.” (Jewish Antiquities, II, 276 [xii, 4]) Josephus’ statement, however, besides being inaccurate as to knowledge of the divine name prior to Moses, is vague and does not clearly reveal just what the general attitude current in the first century was as to pronouncing or using the divine name.

The Jewish Mishnah, a collection of rabbinic teachings and traditions, is somewhat more explicit. Its compilation is credited to a rabbi known as Judah the Prince, who lived in the second and third centuriesC.E. Some of the Mishnaic material clearly relates to circumstances prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70C.E. Of the Mishnah, however, one scholar says: “It is a matter of extreme difficulty to decide what historical value we should attach to any tradition recorded in the Mishnah. The lapse of time which may have served to obscure or distort memories of times so different; the political upheavals, changes, and confusions brought about by two rebellions and two Roman conquests; the standards esteemed by the Pharisean party (whose opinions the Mishnah records) which were not those of the Sadducean party ...—these are factors which need to be given due weight in estimating the character of the Mishnah’s statements. Moreover there is much in the contents of the Mishnah that moves in an atmosphere of academic discussion pursued for its own sake, with (so it would appear) little pretence at recording historical usage.” (The Mishnah, translated by H.*Danby, London, 1954, pp. xiv, xv) Some of the Mishnaic traditions concerning the pronouncing of the divine name are as follows:

In connection with the annual Day of Atonement, Danby’s translation of the Mishnah states: “And when the priests and the people which stood in the Temple Court heard the Expressed Name come forth from the mouth of the High Priest, they used to kneel and bow themselves and fall down on their faces and say, ‘Blessed be the name of the glory of his kingdom for ever and ever!’” (Yoma 6:2) Of the daily priestly blessings, Sotah 7:6 says: “In the Temple they pronounced the Name as it was written, but in the provinces by a substituted word.” Sanhedrin 7:5 states that a blasphemer was not guilty ‘unless he pronounced the Name,’ and that in a trial involving a charge of blasphemy a substitute name was used until all the evidence had been heard; then the chief witness was asked privately to ‘say expressly what he had heard,’ presumably employing the divine name. Sanhedrin 10:1, in listing those “that have no share in the world to come,” states: “Abba Saul says: Also he that pronounces the Name with its proper letters.” Yet, despite these negative views, one also finds in the first section of the Mishnah the positive injunction that “a man should salute his fellow with [the use of] the Name [of God],” the example of Boaz(Ru 2:4) then being cited.Berakhot 9:5.

Taken for what they are worth, these traditional views may reveal a superstitious tendency to avoid using the divine name sometime before Jerusalem’s temple was destroyed in 70C.E. Even then, it is primarily the priests who are explicitly said to have used a substitute name in place of the divine name, and that only in the provinces.Additionally the historical value of the Mishnaic traditions is questionable, as we have seen.
There is, therefore, no genuine basis for assigning any time earlier than the first and second centuries
C.E. for the development of the superstitious view calling for discontinuance of the use of the divine name.
 
**
When did the superstition take hold?
**
Some claim that it began following the Babylonian exile (607-537B.C.E.). This theory, however is based on a supposed reduction in the use of the name by the later writers of the Hebrew Scriptures,a view that does not hold up under examination. Malachi,for example,was evidently one of the last books of the Hebrew Scriptures written (in the latter half of the fifth centuryB.C.E.),and it gives great prominence to the divine name

Many reference works have suggested that the name ceased to be used by about 300B.C.E. Evidence for this date supposedly was found in the absence of the Tetragrammaton (or a transliteration of it) in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, begun about 280B.C.E. the Greek words Ky′ri‧os (Lord) or The‧os′ (God) for the Tetragrammaton. copies, though in fragmentary .

One of these is the fragmentary remains of a papyrus roll of a portion of Deuteronomy, listed as P.Fouad Inventory No. 266. (PICTURE, Vol. 1, p. 326) It regularly presents the Tetragrammaton, written in square Hebrew characters, in each case of its appearance in the Hebrew text being translated. This papyrus is dated by scholars as being from the first centuryB.C.E., and thus it was written four or five centuries earlier than the manuscripts mentioned previously.

When did the Jews in general actually stop pronouncing the personal name of God?

At least in written form, there is no sound evidence of any disappearance or disuse of the divine name in theB.C.E. period. In the first centuryC.E.,there first appears some evidence of a superstitious attitude toward the name. Josephus,a Jewish historian from a priestly family, when recounting God’s revelation to Moses at the site of the burning bush, says: “Then God revealed to him His name, which ere then had not come to men’s ears, and of which I am forbidden to speak.” (Jewish Antiquities, II, 276 [xii, 4]) Josephus’ statement, however, besides being inaccurate as to knowledge of the divine name prior to Moses, is vague and does not clearly reveal just what the general attitude current in the first century was as to pronouncing or using the divine name.

The Jewish Mishnah, a collection of rabbinic teachings and traditions, is somewhat more explicit. Its compilation is credited to a rabbi known as Judah the Prince, who lived in the second and third centuriesC.E. Some of the Mishnaic material clearly relates to circumstances prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70C.E. Of the Mishnah, however, one scholar says: “It is a matter of extreme difficulty to decide what historical value we should attach to any tradition recorded in the Mishnah. The lapse of time which may have served to obscure or distort memories of times so different; the political upheavals, changes, and confusions brought about by two rebellions and two Roman conquests; the standards esteemed by the Pharisean party (whose opinions the Mishnah records) which were not those of the Sadducean party ...—these are factors which need to be given due weight in estimating the character of the Mishnah’s statements. Moreover there is much in the contents of the Mishnah that moves in an atmosphere of academic discussion pursued for its own sake, with (so it would appear) little pretence at recording historical usage.” (The Mishnah, translated by H.*Danby, London, 1954, pp. xiv, xv) Some of the Mishnaic traditions concerning the pronouncing of the divine name are as follows:

In connection with the annual Day of Atonement, Danby’s translation of the Mishnah states: “And when the priests and the people which stood in the Temple Court heard the Expressed Name come forth from the mouth of the High Priest, they used to kneel and bow themselves and fall down on their faces and say, ‘Blessed be the name of the glory of his kingdom for ever and ever!’” (Yoma 6:2) Of the daily priestly blessings, Sotah 7:6 says: “In the Temple they pronounced the Name as it was written, but in the provinces by a substituted word.” Sanhedrin 7:5 states that a blasphemer was not guilty ‘unless he pronounced the Name,’ and that in a trial involving a charge of blasphemy a substitute name was used until all the evidence had been heard; then the chief witness was asked privately to ‘say expressly what he had heard,’ presumably employing the divine name. Sanhedrin 10:1, in listing those “that have no share in the world to come,” states: “Abba Saul says: Also he that pronounces the Name with its proper letters.” Yet, despite these negative views, one also finds in the first section of the Mishnah the positive injunction that “a man should salute his fellow with [the use of] the Name [of God],” the example of Boaz(Ru 2:4) then being cited.Berakhot 9:5.

Taken for what they are worth, these traditional views may reveal a superstitious tendency to avoid using the divine name sometime before Jerusalem’s temple was destroyed in 70C.E. Even then, it is primarily the priests who are explicitly said to have used a substitute name in place of the divine name, and that only in the provinces.Additionally the historical value of the Mishnaic traditions is questionable, as we have seen.
There is, therefore, no genuine basis for assigning any time earlier than the first and second centuries
C.E. for the development of the superstitious view calling for discontinuance of the use of the divine name.
As is normally the case, the JWs are attempting to make a case from silence. There is no evidence of the Jewish people EVER using the divine name commonly as is done by JWs…not ever…and the fact of it’s use during the Day of Atonement only shows it was held in high regard and NOT for daily use.
 
see the official papal degree of november 2008 which is telling catholics to throw away speeches… songs and other stuff that is mentioning any form of the divine tetragrammaton YHWH
This was answered by Tee Eff…you have, either deliberately or on accident…misrepresented the church and its teaching…This happens quite a bit in JW circles.
 
Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church states the name of God as being YHWH. if the church wished to discourage all use of the name it certainly would not be published in such an official text
 
why do Jw’s emphatically express God’s name?

As a friend mentioned, she loves being a JW because its the only faith that “glorify” god’s name.

what is the Church’s position regarding this? may be used to counter this?
Ask your friend to explain her understanding of Phil 2:9 where it says that JESUS is the name above ALL names. Not some names… but ALL names. Including the one JWs use for their Big “G” God - Jehovah… not to be confused by their little “g” god - Jesus.

On second thought - don’t ask your friend. You will just get some ridiculously reasoned JW argument… just know that your friend is totally mistaken if she thinks JWs hold a shred of truth. Sadly, they do not. Theirs was a religion founded solely by a crackpot, Charles T. Russel. Google him if you’re interested in reading all of his failed prophecies. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ Himself. (and that’s Jesus —> The King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, God with Us… not “a god” but GOD made flesh… all glory and honor is His, forever and ever Amen.

Pray for your friend and all those who remain in darkness.
 
thanks for the help! now, it comes down to this, how many times does the name “Jehovah” REALLY appear in scripture, aside from their mythical “7000 times”? is there proof that neither Christ nor the Jews ever mentioned His name? based on translations of Greek??

needing help much because we’re currently tackling the topic this week:)
 
thanks for the help! now, it comes down to this, how many times does the name “Jehovah” REALLY appear in scripture, aside from their mythical “7000 times”? is there proof that neither Christ nor the Jews ever mentioned His name? based on translations of Greek??

needing help much because we’re currently tackling the topic this week:)
Actually the term doesn’t appear at all in Greek, it’s rendered Κυριος (Lord), which is the same tradition used for English texts (but without allcaps). In the Hebrew it appears, although I’d be very surprised if it was anywhere near 7,000. Probably a few hundred at most.
 
isn’t Jehova or Yahweh NOT a proper translation of God’s name?
The name is transliterated YHWH. Vowel markings didn’t exist in Hebrew at the time of the writting of Genesis. In German J is pronounced as an English Y and the english W as a V, meaning if one is speaking German the two are quite close.

Of course JW’s originate in an English-Speaking country. Go figure.
 
The biblical Name Jehovah is a dominant theme in that translation my Interlinear-Bible.
 
The biblical Name Jehovah is a dominant theme in that translation my Interlinear-Bible.
Unfortunately, it’s not really accurate, and secondly (if it were accurate) should probably not be used so familiarly.

But keep the Bible, and keep using it. 🙂
 
Unfortunately, it’s not really accurate, and secondly (if it were accurate) should probably not be used so familiarly.

But keep the Bible, and keep using it. 🙂
Says who?? hmm - I would consider the Interlinear Bible I have to be pretty accurate.

The are no particular reasons to suggest otherwise.

~
 
Says who?? hmm - I would consider the Interlinear Bible I have to be pretty accurate.

The are no particular reasons to suggest otherwise.

~
If you’re talking about the Interlinear put out by the Watchtower Bible and Track Society keep it for a good laugh if nothing else. The “translation committee” that translated it had ZERO formal education in ancient languages…NONE!
 
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