Jehovah.

[swariffin]

There is much discussion about the 144,000 teaching. I was raised JW so I would like to help. Revelation is not the only source of this teaching. Please take a moment to read (2 peter 3:5-10)

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Dear excaliber,

I have read your suggested reading (2 Peter 3:5-10), but I don’t get it. You must have something in mind that I can’t catch up. Could you please explain it why the verse you mention will relate to the number 144.000? Forgive me for asking, for I mean no offense at all.

 

[Don_Hepler]

And you presume to be the teacher? Are you teachable??? And who is your teacher?

The Holy Ghost is my teacher, and been teachable is easy, but the cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolisness and it profiteth them not. Wo unto the deaf that will not hear; for they shall perish, Wo unto the blind that will not see; for they shall perish also. Wo unto the uncircumcised of heart, for a knowledge of their iniquities shall smite them at the last day. Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. Wo unto the murderer who deliberately killeth, for he shall die. Wo unto them who commit whoredoms, for they shall be thrust down to hell. Yea, Wo unto those that worship idols, for the devil of all devils delighteth in them. And, in fine, Wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins. Do not say, that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness, but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and he employeth no servant there and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them. Remember this brother, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments, and I shake them before you; I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all-searching eye; wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him, and am rid of you blood.

 

[Gara3987]

Yes but people do not they say we are unworthy but we are not and well I want people to know that you should all call him by his name not lord or god because they are titles.

It also says in the bible that we should not call priests farther.
So why do catholics and christians who go to church call there priests farther and you are supposed to get baptised like Jehovah’s witnesses not in the church and it also says in the bible Jesus died on a stake not a cross want proof on all of this read the Holy Scriptures the ones that include Jehovah’s name would be a good choice.

The information that I am using is from wikipedia. Jehovah is an English transcription of יְהֹוָה,which is a specific vocalized spelling of יהוה (i.e. the Tetragrammaton) that is found in the Masoretic Text.
The first English translators of יְהֹוָה, believed they had the correct vowel points, and translated it as it was written:
“Jehova” in 1270 A.D. Latin.
“Iehouah” in 1530 A.D. English.
“Iehovah” in 1611 A.D. English.
“Jehovah” in 1671 A.D. English.
“Yehowah” used by some using another transcription of the consonants of the Tetragrammaton

Basically it is a translation from Yehowah which means “I am who am.” So instead of saying God you are saying “I am who am”

As for calling priests farther, here is an answer by REV. BERTRAND L. CONWAY.

Why do Catholics call their priests “Father,” when Christ said: “Call no man your father upon the earth; for one is your Father who is in heaven” (Matt, xxiii. 9)?

Catholics call their priests Father, because the priest is the ordinary minister of Baptism, which gives them the new birth of supernatural grace (John iii. 5). Christ was not finding fault with the use of the terms “Rabbi” or “Father” in themselves, but was teaching us that God alone, the Father of us all, is the Source of all authority, and at the same time rebuking the Pharisees for their indomitable pride (Matt, xxiii. 2-10). It is absurd to interpret our Lord’s words literally, for we have a perfect right to call our fathers and teachers by their just title. The early Christians never interpreted these words literally, for St. Paul calls Timothy his son (Phil. ii. 22; 1 Tim. i. 2), and he calls himself the spiritual father of those whom he had converted. “For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the Gospel, I have begotten you” (1 Cor. iv. 15; Cf. 1 John ii. 13). St. Jerome tells us that the fourth century monks in Palestine and Egypt called one another “Father.”

As for your bible I am wondering if yours contains all the books including The seven Deutero-Canonical books, missing from non-Catholic Bibles. Plus Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t even believe in the Holy Trinity, and that our Lord Jesus is God, when it clearly states “I and the Father are one.” [John 10:30] “I and the Father are one”… That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.
The last time I spoke to two Jehovah’s Witnesses they made it very clear that they do not believe in going to heaven, they made it clear that they didn’t believe in hell either. Basically it sounded to me like they had an atheist or scientology mind set that after death there exists nothing. I am not kidding about this either they came to me proclaiming that they didn’t want to convert me but indirectly trying to make me believe that the Catholic Faith founded by our Lord Jesus Christ was incorrect, which was very irritating.--
Now then, what kind of faith must a man have to be saved? Will any faith do? Why, if any faith will do, the devil himself will be saved, for the Bible says the devils believe and tremble.

Well That is all I am going to post, take care all and God Bless.

 

[Gara3987]

Book Of Exodus

13 Moses said to God: Lo, I shall go to the children of Israel, and say to them: The God of your fathers hath sent me to you. If they should say to me: What is his name? what shall I say to them?** 14 God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you. **15 And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me to you: This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

**14 “I am who am”… That is, I am being itself, eternal, self-existent, independent, infinite; without beginning, end, or change; and the source of all other beings. **

Here are some questions for you to answer.

If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? (“They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn’t come as they had implied over and over again,” said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah’s Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)

Has the Society ever taught anything scripturally incorrect?

Might the Society be teaching anything scripturally incorrect now?

Can Jehovah’s Witnesses hold and discuss openly with other Jehovah’s Witnesses opinions that differ from orthodox Watch Tower doctrine?

Can individuals read & understand the Bible alone, or do they need an organization and it’s publications to do so?

How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled? What is the difference between a Catholic appealing to “what the organization tells him” about December 25 being the date of Jesus’ birthday and a Jw’ appealing to “what the organization tells him” about the date 1935? Is it not hypocritical when you chide the “poor deluded Catholic” that his faith cannot find a Bible passage to support it, when the same goes for you and 1935?

How do you know that there were any vacancies, if any, in the 144,000 class if Jesus offered this to first century Christians? How can the organization know the exact number of vacancies today without any records from the first century?

Why are you called, “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and not “Christians”? Since Jehovah’s Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, “Jehovah’s Witnesses” then what was the “new name” prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can’t be “Jehovah’s Witnesses”, for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be “Christian” after our savior “Christ”?

Why would the name God gave to His people not be “Christians” since Acts 11:26 says, “The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch”? Why is the name “Jehovah’s Witness” found nowhere in the New Testament, if that is God’s divine name for His people under the new covenant? Why would God wait almost 2000 years to suddenly start using the name “Jehovah’s Witness”. Does this mean that first century Christians were not known as Jehovah’s Witnesses"?

What is the correct spelling of God’s proper name “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”? If Jehovah’s Witnesses maintain that “Yahweh” is more proper, why do they misspell it “Jehovah”? If the name of God is so important, then should you not only pronounce it correctly, but spell it correctly too? Is not spelling more important than pronunciation?

Since the Jehovah’s Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject “Judge” Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah’s Witnesses won’t also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?

There are many more questions @ bible.ca/jw-questions.htm and you may want to take a look at it. You may get more insite on the truth on Jehovah’s Witness. The site that I have provided has much documented history on Jehovah’s Witness and the reality of that cult.

 

[Gara3987]

Oh and another thing that I found very interesting when speaking to these two Jehovah’s Witness, was that they couldn’t get over how I said I know that The Holy Trinity exists. For one it is called faith, and for those two Jehovah’s Witness who converted from Roman Catholic who kept professing their faith, straight up don’t have any faith because if they did they would still be Catholic.

Any who, before I get of subject, I told them that it is through Divine Tradition. They told me that they only follow the bible and don’t believe in tradition, in fact if it is not in the bible they don’t believe in it. Well what they fail to see is that the bible is basically Traditon if you think about it. They said that they don’t believe that Jesus is God because it is not in the bible, Which it is: “I and the Father are one” [John 10:30] *“I and the Father are one”… That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons. *

And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. [Gen1:26]
*“Let us make man to our image”… This image of God in man, is not in the body, but in the soul; which is a spiritual substance, endued with understanding and free will. God speaketh here in the plural number, to insinuate the plurality of persons in the Deity. *

And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself. [Gen2:18]

If you look at the Sabbath day it is a tradition for the specified day as in Monday, Tuesday, etc. is not specified in the bible.

They also tried to convince me that the Catholic Faith would be incorrect because the traditions, dogma, and theology was and is done by man. For one the Bible was written by man so that one really made me laugh. For two the Bible is a Catholic book. The Jews follow the Old Testament only because the New Testament was done by the Apostles, and Christ founded His Church (the Roman Catholic Church) through the Apostles, so I don’t understand why someone outside the Church is reading it as if their religion or cult founded it, when it was in fact founded by the Catholic Church.

I will end it here, these are all facts and if you are unable to see them for what they are then there is something wrong with you.

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

Jesus never said I had to die for him or be murder, to be with him, He said you must be Baptize, maybe it is you who does not understand the scriptures, In Rev. it talks about those who will be beheaded, will be on his right side, but those are his saints the true follower of Christ and his teachings, you have been playing this song for sometime, why don’t you show your true self and get on something a little more exciting, It would make you healthier. Being nail to the cross is not my thing.

I didn’t say you had to be a martyr to be with him. But I certainly don’t deny that those who are martyrs for Jesus are with him.

“Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” Matt. 10:39 Anyone who dies for Christ is his saint and a true follower of Christ and his teachings."

I’m sure being nailed to the Cross was not something Jesus enjoyed much either. But he did say to pick up our Crosses and follow Him–and sometimes that leads to martyrdom. Matt. 10:38

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

The Holy Ghost is my teacher, and been teachable is easy, but the cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolisness and it profiteth them not. Wo unto the deaf that will not hear; for they shall perish, Wo unto the blind that will not see; for they shall perish also. Wo unto the uncircumcised of heart, for a knowledge of their iniquities shall smite them at the last day. Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. Wo unto the murderer who deliberately killeth, for he shall die. Wo unto them who commit whoredoms, for they shall be thrust down to hell. Yea, Wo unto those that worship idols, for the devil of all devils delighteth in them. And, in fine, Wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins. Do not say, that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness, but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and he employeth no servant there and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them. Remember this brother, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments, and I shake them before you; I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all-searching eye; wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him, and am rid of you blood.

Do you imagine to have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit?

“You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. The wind blows whereever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:7

Apply your own advice to yourself. You might end up being the woeful one.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Do you imagine to have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit?

“You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. The wind blows whereever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:7

Apply your own advice to yourself. You might end up being the woeful one.

You asked me a question, I answered it.

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

You asked me a question, I answered it.

And, now, you have my response to your answer.

 

[Metaron]

Ahh well this is all stupid really lol I mean you all know that gods name is Jehovah so why not use it because in the Holy Scriptures he says that he wants us to know his name.

So go on tell me what are your views on this?

Actually, Jehovah is an English construct. His name is actually YHWH, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. By the way, did you know that Russell (The founder of the Watchtower cult) believed that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was a “Bible in stone” and that he used it to make predictions about Armageddon? And that they built a house in California to house Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, for their return in 1975, like the Watchtower said? Oops! It’s too bad they were wrong about their prophesy, thus proving they’re false prophet.

 

[Metaron]

show me all your proof for all this then for i have my proof the bible.

the 140000 will rain with Jesus and be the new goverment over the whole earth don’t believe me read the bible.

As far as I can see, the 144,0000, as mentioned in the Apocalypse, were all Jews, and virgins. They weren’t Gentile Jehovah’s Witnesses.

 

[Gara3987]

As for your bible I am wondering if yours contains all the books including The seven Deutero-Canonical books, missing *from *non-Catholic Bibles. Plus Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t even believe in the Holy Trinity, and that our Lord Jesus is God, when it clearly states “I and the Father are one.” [John 10:30] “I and the Father are one”… That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

A correction that I needed to make where I said “As for your bible I am wondering if yours contains all the books including The seven Deutero-Canonical books, missing in non-Catholic Bibles.” These books are not found in Non-Catholic Bibles.

 

[Stathios]

Pfft read the bible mate.

his name in hebrew is YHWH or Yahweh which in english in Jehovah and it also says in the bible onyl 140000 are going to heaven come arrageddon not all of us because we will rain on earth for the 100 years when the devil is thrown into the abyss.

then after the 1000 years he will be released and then we will live forever when JEHOVAH kills him.

don’t believe me read the bible.

O.K. if that is so about the 140,000 are going to be saved then let me ask you this. If Jehova Witnesses make about 5million around the world then what will happen to the 4.8 million of yall who won;t be saved???

 

[Stathios]

no 1914 was when satan the devil was cast out of heaven it also says this in the bible and after 1914 we have been in the lasts days because JEHOVAH is being patient because he wants us all to live forever.

Do you know the history of your Church? Your Church was created by 5 individuals. 3 of them had no education(College) They claimed that they translated the Bible from the Greek The New Testimate Language. But How could they when they do not know Greek? I am Greek and Greek is NOT an easy language to understand Even The Greek from the JW’s bible in Greece is not the same as The JW’s in America. If you look at The texts that were copied in Greek it does not have the same meaning. Even The King James Version has over 1,500 errors.

I have the Ancient Greek text version and it is NOT the same. How can 5 Anglos come up with a correct text which they can NOT speak Greek? Much less Ancient Biblical Greek.

 

[Stathios]

Babylon the Great was Rome, and that fell centuries ago. What’s the latest prediction by JW’s for Armageddon? 1914,1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1975, and “within generation of 1914” have all been wrong. Is there a new date that will come and go making JW’s look foolish once again?

Yes and in 1975, over a MIllion of them left. Why? Because they were tired of all the false claims.

 

[Hellisreal]

Just remember Armegedon will come when babylon the great falls and when all the goverments of the world say there is world peace and when all that happens…look back on this thread.

logs off the forum

Look to my comments with Excaliber on the thread about sola scriptura.
He is a self proclaimed former member of the WBTS.

A bethelite.

Go check it out.

Got any questions, let me know.

 

[Agrazing_Mace]

no 1914 was when satan the devil was cast out of heaven it also says this in the bible and after 1914 we have been in the lasts days because JEHOVAH is being patient because he wants us all to live forever.

First, and foremost, “Jehovahswitness”, I pray that God gives you the grace to take an open and honest look into history. Second, I pray that you do not take offense to my comments, but view them as someone offering advice. Third, I pray that He enlightens you to true Scripture, and not a distorted rendition created by, and perpetuated by, 19th, 20th, and 21st century Arianism (this will make more sense after you do some reading of history).

Now, after reading your opening statement and follow-up responses, I cannot help but see that you’re a bit green in your study of faith- or, at least the expression of your faith. Because of this, I do not intend to go too “deep” with you- it would only ignite that defensiveness that is already so easily noticed in your posts.

Let me cut to the chase- you need to do more reading on Christian history. This would include Church history (both Catholic and non-Catholic perspectives), as well as the Bible (both Catholic and non-Catholic versions). I say both Catholic and non-Catholic in order for you to be better equipped for a more informed decision in your pursuit of salvation. Life is a long journey, in most cases, and God understands that we are all on different paths traveling at a different pace. Still, as it is written, we must endure “until the end”, seeking truth through prayer and those teachings handed-down from Christ and His Apostles.

As a beginning tip, you will need to first discern whether you believe Jesus Christ is God the Son or if he was just God’s first creature. This is the pivotal point between JWs and the rest of Christianity. I would suggest you spend most of your research time on this topic.

I will pray for you.

 

[yessisan]

no 1914 was when satan the devil was cast out of heaven it also says this in the bible and after 1914 we have been in the lasts days because JEHOVAH is being patient because he wants us all to live forever.

This is such a lie! It seems YOU don’t even know JW history (aside from general history). The yr 1914 marks when Jesus “came invisibly” to earth and marked the end of the system of things. I know this because I studied it with the JWs and heard it mentioned MANY MANY times at the meetings at Kingdom Hall and aside from that, I’m maried to a JW. I have ALL their literature (well, at least up till May this yr since DH doesn’t attend the meetings any more). But anyways, all your JW literature says that 1914 is the yr that Jesus came back and the prophecy of the so and so decades came true (do the math, the 7 yrs equaling a decade, remember?). It’s on your “What Does the Bible Really Teach” appendix, if you have the book, go to the back of it and look for the timetable. If you really are a JW you’ll know exactly where that is located.

Folks, this guys doesn’t even know JW facts. He’s probably a loony and is trying to makes us angry with his non-historical made up Catholic facts. Besides, he was a hit and run “JW”. We’re actually wasting our time on this thread.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

i agree on the “wasting time” statement. i think he served his purpose. said a few things, ruffle some feathers, and got out before he had to think to much.
i do believe, however, he looks on this thread to see what is said. i could be wrong however.

 

[Hellisreal]

i agree on the “wasting time” statement. i think he served his purpose. said a few things, ruffle some feathers, and got out before he had to think to much.
i do believe, however, he looks on this thread to see what is said. i could be wrong however.

Maybe they test their debating skills with catholics here so that if they get one of us at the door they will know how to avoid the errors they know their literature teaches about our faith. Its a possibility. They wont be told the truth about what we believe in their materials, so they come here to see what we really do believe. I bet most JW’s have found the distortions printed in their literature to be a little to much to swallow. But, they overlook it. They cant overlook it though, if they come to a prepared catholic’s door.
And, they must be prepared to face the fact that their own material is not going to help them show credibility of being purveyors of the “truth” when we can point to all the errors they teach about us. They should stop distorting our faith so the JW knocking at the door will have at least not be sent away humiliated and likely doubting their faith as a result.
Wait, that is a good thing!
Keep printing up distortions WBTS!