Jehovah's just came a knockin'

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Charlotte408

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knock knock…

who’s there…?

two little old ladies…awww…and they were so cute!

I panicked…wait a minute…how do I handle this situation?? Everyone says Jehovahs are a cult…but they’re cute little old ladies!! I could never disrespect a little old lady…

“Hi…how could I help you ladies??”

They asked me if I was aware that peace could be found in my lifetime…

“Absolutely, I said”

They asked if I wouldnt mind them reading a passage from the bible, that showed that it was indeed possible…

“Oh sure, no problem, go for it”

They read a passage from Phillipines?? Something to the effect of ‘peace can be found if you ask God for it’…I should have paid more attention to which one it was…sorry…

Then they asked if I wanted a copy of their ‘Watchtower’ magazine…

“Oh, I would hun, but I’m Catholic, and I have to be honest, I wouldn’t read it…it doesnt coincide with our beliefs”

They said, “oh well thats ok, at least you have spiritual direction…so many people have no spiritual guidance these days…they dont know WHATS going on”

“Oh yes, your right, a lot of people do need spiritual guidance, but I’m very aware of whats going on…But I thank you, and appreciate you taking your time to spread the word of the Bible”

((It is the same Bible right??? lol…I mean, spreading His word is still spreading His word right??))

It was a nice, cordial conversation, then I sent them on their way with blessings of good luck and appreciation…

idk…!!! what was I supposed to do!! I felt like I couldnt call them CULT members and slam the door on them…they were little sincere old ladies!!
 
Funny my wife and I just minutes ago had a younger pair come to our door. I didn’t hear much of the conversation. They just gave her a pamphlet, asked her to give it a read and if it was okay to come back later to ask what she thought of it.

JW is one religion (among many) that I cannot speak intelligently about because I have done no study of it. I don’t know their arguments with the Catholic faith and out side of them not participating in the military, not celebrating birthdays and denying the Trinity I know next to nothing about their beliefs.

God bless
 
I found that many JW door to door evangelists to be sincere, especially the older ladies. I have chatted with a few in hopes I can share with them what I know. However, I also found that they come from a very indoctrinated background and were not interested in sharing as a 2 way street. Thus sadly, after answering their questions and asking them to think about the Good News from my personal perspective, we would usually end our conversations. In fact, it has always been the JW’s who ended the conversations with me.

As for the Bible, they use a different bible translation, a particular one of their own. Here is a secular link to it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation_of_the_Holy_Scriptures
I have read that the original group that translated their bible from Greek and Hebrew had only one person who learned Greek, and he did not learn Greek religious language. I do not think they have any Hebrew scholars in that group either.

I did see the Trinitarian Baptismal formula in their translation of the bible. At one instance, I read that quote, I think from Mark or Matthew to them while examining their bible. However, I do not think I was heard, since they smiled blankly and asked me to read other passages. I hope I have remember that in a fair manner.
 
yeah me too…the only thing that I really know about their religion is that they keep saying the end of the world is coming hence the ‘watchtower’ to be on the look out for it…I know they dont believe in the holy trinity…and some people I’ve seen on here consider them like, cultists…but I just couldnt argue or be MEAN!! lol…I kept thinking their intentions were sincere…
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Funny my wife and I just minutes ago had a younger pair come to our door. I didn’t hear much of the conversation. They just gave her a pamphlet, asked her to give it a read and if it was okay to come back later to ask what she thought of it.

JW is one religion (among many) that I cannot speak intelligently about because I have done no study of it. I don’t know their arguments with the Catholic faith and out side of them not participating in the military, not celebrating birthdays and denying the Trinity I know next to nothing about their beliefs.

God bless
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I think they explained to me at one point that they go door to door because they believe that now is the End Times and that going door to door is what is instructed in the bible from the New Testament. I was never told about the details of their beliefs, though I have read an article about that here from the Rock magazine.
 
Charlotte408 said:
yeah me too…the only thing that I really know about their religion is that they keep saying the end of the world is coming hence the ‘watchtower’ to be on the look out for it…I know they dont believe in the holy trinity…and some people I’ve seen on here consider them like, cultists…but I just couldnt argue or be MEAN!! lol…I kept thinking their intentions were sincere…
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No it would do no good to come out and tell them you believe (or have been told) they are cultist. It may be true but they will only think you anti-JW and not listen to a thing you say.

However if you are looking for a way to keep them from coming to your door that would sure be a great way to go about accomplishing that.

God bless you
 
I’ve had a full range of experience with door-to-door JW’s. Some have indeed been polite and cordial when I declined their offers of literature and instruction. Some have been downright rude, particularly if they noticed I was wearing a crucifix.

There was one interesting encounter when I was visiting my parents. Dad was 4th Degree KofC, and coordinated their local Catholic information program. They never delivered the material unbidden, but provided it when asked about the Church. Well, they came to his door, and said they wanted to talk about God and salvation. Dad excused himself (I could see from his living room what was going on), went and got an assortment of the Catholic information materials, came back, and handed them to the people, briefly explaining what they would find in each one. He pointed to a phone number on the back of one if they had any questions. They turned, and left in something very close to utter confusion.

I try not to be rude to them, but if they get pushy, I get firm. They are deeply in error, show some aspects of being a cult, and deny such basics of the faith as the Trinity and divinity of Jesus Christ, but call themselves Christians. As for their Bible translation (the “New World” translation), one scholar wrote an article about it entitled, “How Not to Translate the Bible.”

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Technically a cult is a group with their collected beliefs, devotions, and traditions that are believed by “mainstream” to be unusual and contained within themselves.

By this definition, a cult brings with it the sense of lack of acceptance by mainstream thought due to mainstream reasoning.
 
They are deeply in error, show some aspects of being a cult, and deny such basics of the faith as the Trinity and divinity of Jesus Christ, but call themselves Christians.

See this is where I wish I had the heads up…I wouldnt go toe to toe with these little old ladies…idk…i have so much respect for elderly people…but if it was a younger couple… or even an adult…I WISH i knew enough of what they believed, and enough of what I believe to be able to counter it?? know what I mean?? I hate not being educated enough in our beliefs, and where exactly to find supporting passages etc. that when faced with these kinda situations I find myself chokin’ up and smiling…with a ‘oh thanks…but no thanks’
 
I would recommend the excellent booklet Beginning Apologetics 2: How to Answer Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. There is also the booklet Beginning Apologetics 2.5: Yes! You Should Believe in the Trinity (which is written directly in response to the popular JW tract Should You Believe in the Trinity?).

These booklets are helpful to get you at least a little familiar with the beliefs of those who come knocking at your door. 😉

I think you handled the situation well, Charlotte. We’re not obligated to be mean or argumentative with door-to-door proselytizers. Charity and respect are an acceptable response. 🙂
 
StillWondering said:
Technically a cult is a group with their collected beliefs, devotions, and traditions that are believed by “mainstream” to be unusual and contained within themselves.

By this definition, a cult brings with it the sense of lack of acceptance by mainstream thought due to mainstream reasoning.
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Notice I didn’t state that they were a cult, though some knowledgeable in the area have done so.

The above definition is a relativistic one, and therefore not logically solid.

Definitions of the term based on characteristics of a group note that cults have controlling leadership structures, an extreme and an exclusive (by which the believers are defined, as it were, as the “in crowd”) system of beliefs. The JW’s exhibit those traits.

And the JW’s reject the so-called “mainstream” much more stridently than the other way around. While we may note that they are in error concerning God, they assert that we oppose Him. So the cited relativistic definition isn’t apt for them.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
A while ago I was listening to the Catholic Answers Live radio show with an interview with Patrick Madrid. They started taking callers, and people began asking about JW’s. Patrick Madrid stated that he had (sort of) snuck in to some of their training classes, and said that they specifically train their people to target certain denominations - Protestants, Catholics, etc. In other words, they’re trained how to handle the argumentation of various churches.

Which, if true, is very very scary.
 
Charlotte408 said:
“Oh yes, your right, a lot of people do need spiritual guidance, but I’m very aware of whats going on…But I thank you, and appreciate you taking your time to spread the word of the Bible”

((It is the same Bible right??? lol…I mean, spreading His word is still spreading His word right??))
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Actually no. It’s not. They generally use The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures which is pretty well known to be one of the very worst you can find. I wouldn’t use it for anything.

Here’s a very clear example of why…

John 1:1 (NWT) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

John 1:1 (RSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

News flash. There is nothing in any scholarship that allows for that indefinite article there.
idk…!!! what was I supposed to do!! I felt like I couldn’t call them CULT members and slam the door on them…they were little sincere old ladies!!
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You might print up some of the following articles and swap with them next time.


  1. *]Are They Awake on the Watchtower
    *]Distinctive Beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    *]The God of the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    *]History of the Jehovah’s Witnesesses
    *]Stumpers for Jehovah’s Witnesses
    *]More Stumpers for the Jehovah’s Witnesses
    *]Strategies of Jehovah’s Witness
 
I think you were very sweet to them :). I really don’t know what I would do… I don’t answer the door for any stranger… but two old ladies… possibly.
 
I would go to their official website first. Read as much of it as you can.
Secondly, I would ask for their official literature. For instance, catholics have the CCC to give people like me as a source of information to go with.
Do that first, then make a list of questions in order of priority.
Try to narrow it down to the big ones you are most familliar with on your end.
Take it one subject at a time and don’t let a change of topic get you sidetracked.
If you find yourself in a topic that there will never be headway in, go to another one.
I for instance, am not satisfyed with christian answers on a big topic. So, I have moved to other topics and will exhaust that list before going back to the unanswered ones.😉

Just make good lists.👍
 
Someone said that the JW’s invited themselves back to discuss their literature. That’s not a good sign. They think they have caught a fish. They did that to me. I made the mistake of allowing them into my house. They began coming once a week.

I am not opposed to some of their basic ideas, but they are not deep at all. They hold a lot of oppinions that really are very superficial. Like they believe that only 144,000 people will enter heaven. Which they get from a poor reading of Revelation. Revelation states that they are a multitude in heaven which no man can count, but they are unable to see that. Even though its part of the same passage in Revelation.

They also are quite silly about the name of God. They believe there is only one name of God and it is only pronounced the way that they pronounce it. I tried to explain that the J in the name represents the hebrew letter Yud, and the J has been inserted by German theologians, where the letter J in German is Yod. But they could not get what I was telling them. I went on to say that the Jews had the name first and they claim that the correct expression of the name has been forgotten. Then this guy says you are a bible scholar aren’t you?

I tell him no, and I said, I read and study scripture just like many others do. He then asks, when the bible uses the word shambles what does that word mean? I said it means a bizarre. He had no idea what I meant. I said it means an open air market, which is sometimes called a bizarre market, or simply a bizarre. He said he had not heard that before, and he would have to ask someone else before he could accept what I had said.

Well, all interactions with them went a lot like that. They kept coming but I told the Episcoplian priest what was going on in my living room. He was outraged and told me to tell them that what they understood was contradicted by scripture, and then throw them out of the house and tell them to never come back.

Well, I did approximately that and was surprized, that they claimed the right to enter my property at any time they chose. Of course I told them that they had no such right, and if they came back I would call the police and have them charged with trespassing.

Well, they then backed down and left, and it really isn’t like me to become litigous but the devil made me do it, I mean the priest…
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
Notice I didn’t state that they were a cult, though some knowledgeable in the area have done so.

The above definition is a relativistic one, and therefore not logically solid.

Definitions of the term based on characteristics of a group note that cults have controlling leadership structures, an extreme and an exclusive (by which the believers are defined, as it were, as the “in crowd”) system of beliefs. The JW’s exhibit those traits.

And the JW’s reject the so-called “mainstream” much more stridently than the other way around. While we may note that they are in error concerning God, they assert that we oppose Him. So the cited relativistic definition isn’t apt for them.

Blessings,

Gerry
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Oh, there was a mention about the vagueness of the term cult. You are absolutely correct this definition is not solid in that it’s relativistic. That does not negate that it is the definition. The term evolves over time and is not a term that is considered authoritative to use in serious discussion either way.
 
Well, I have a brother who is Jehovah’s Witness, and I must say it is difficult to have any serious debate based on Biblical teaching when they believe our Bible is riddled with errors and their “Book” is the accurate one. No amount of apologetics seems to work. I feel so frustrated at times. He just shuts off sometimes if I challenge too far. His eyes glaze and it’s basically impossible to carry on any discussion.
 
Love2BCatholic said:
Well, I have a brother who is Jehovah’s Witness, and I must say it is difficult to have any serious debate based on Biblical teaching when they believe our Bible is riddled with errors and their “Book” is the accurate one. No amount of apologetics seems to work. I feel so frustrated at times. He just shuts off sometimes if I challenge too far. His eyes glaze and it’s basically impossible to carry on any discussion.
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Sounds like when I talk to Muslims. T’is sad.
 
StillWondering said:
Oh, there was a mention about the vagueness of the term cult. You are absolutely correct this definition is not solid in that it’s relativistic. That does not negate that it is the definition. The term evolves over time and is not a term that is considered authoritative to use in serious discussion either way.
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It does not meet the tests in formal logic of a definition. And once again, the issue was characteristics of the JW’s which appear in proper definitions (they do exist).

Blessings,

Gerry
 
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