Jehovah's Witness tells me, "I am a Christian.. but I don't "worship" Christ." Huh?!

[yellowbird]

I had two lovely Jehovah’s Witnesses call on me today. I declined their offer to attend their upcoming convention stating that I am a Christian. The conversation went like this:

JW: We are Christians too.

Me: That’s great! But who do YOU say Jesus is?

JW: Jesus is the son of God. But not God.

Me: But the Bible says Jesus IS God. John 1:1 says the word was with God and the word WAS God.

JW: Well, Jesus is a god … but He isn’t God. There are lots of “gods” - but there is only one TRUE God, and that’s Jehovah.

Me: So you believe Jesus was a false god?

JW: No, he was “a god.” Like I said, there are lots of gods. Satan is a “god.”

Me: So you believe Jesus was like Satan?

JW: No, Jesus is like God. But he isn’t the true God. He is “a god.”

Me: So you worship two Gods?

JW: Oh, we don’t worship Jesus. He isn’t God.

Me: But the Bible says there is only one true God. And you said that Jesus is God. So He is either the TRUE God or he’s a FALSE god. Which is it?

JW: He isn’t God.

Me: What about John 1:1? The Bible says he is God.

JW: He’s just “a god.”

Me: A false God?

JW: No. He’s the mighty god. But not the Almighty God.

Me: So you believe in two Gods?

JW: No. Just one God. There are lots of gods. Satan was a god.

And so it goes… round and round. Honestly, have you ever heard of anything so wacky?

 

[fermat]

Honestly, have you ever heard of anything so wacky?

Yes, the last time they came to my house.

The last time they were there they also gave me one of their magazines which talked about how Catholics in South America go to Mass and then sacrifice animals.

I like to throw Acts, 13:2 at them:

While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

They are always ready to argue that Jesus was not God, but they are not as ready to argue the Holy Spirit is not God.

 

[jazzy_987]

Jehovah’s Witnesses probably have the same meaning for different words…
They explain John 1 by saying that since" The Word was with God"", then the word can’t be God since you can’t be with yourself. Or something.
like:
The watchtower said it was ok to worship Jesus before, because they translate the word proskuneo as obeisance in the NWT rather than worship . I’m pretty confused about it though… I’ve never really found a direct answer… but I am curious about it.
en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2009/2/Worship-Jesus-Yes.htm

 

[mark_a]

If they are a nuisance, ask them for *their *address, and tell them you’ll drop by unannounced at your own convenience with some CA tracts.

Or you can just give them a quiz about their moral teachings. Once they 'fess up about contraception, you can say “Oh, I see, your Protestants”.

 

[ricko]

They don’t believe the Holy Spirit is God either. They believe he is a “force” that proceeds from God like His breath or like a magnetic force.

Their latest teaching is that in baptism you are saved but you do not receive the Holy Spirit. Only those that rule in heaven with Jesus will receive the Holy Spirit. They believe this even though scripture says no such thing. Talk about twisting scripture to your own destruction.

 

[Mark77]

**Great Job of confronting these poor misguided fools! **

They are really admirable in their efforts to proclaim a lie they bought into but did not create, like our Mormon (LDS?) brothers and sisters. We must proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ so they can come into the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (MT 7:15).

"And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." ( Mt 24:11).

Their “bible” is a false rewrite, pray for these people, they are well meaning but totally off in outer space!

Sancta Maria, Matre Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[Ali_formerJW]

And so it goes… round and round. Honestly, have you ever heard of anything so wacky?

{raises hand} That plus lots more! ROFLOL It was a bit embarrassing when I came out how gullible it seemed I had been. Then that turned to anger when I realized how the lies happen and more often than not, the higher ups know it is a lie. Now it just saddens me that my mom is still a JW and my grandad died thinking his generation (1914) would not pass away and live to see the promised kingdom.

My Catholic faith is so much more ~freeing~.

Pray for their conversion.

 

[roselily]

Did even one witness actually see our Father?
I thought that- “Witness” means seeing …, must be first hand actually seeing …
but I thought that in Holy Bible said that no one can see Father face
so how can a million Witness just read Bible and became :Jehovah Witness

Oh, forgive me wonder about that?
Because I always found some name strange, and most strange is this: witness

Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!
O mother of God, O Most Holy Mother!

 

[phoenix3212]

Eh, pray for them. Maybe one day they’ll realize how illogical those beliefs are

 

[roselily]

Eh, pray for them. Maybe one day they’ll realize how illogical those beliefs are

Phoenix, you are so good,
yes, pray for them-for then our Christ He will open their heart that they 'll know Truth.

I was very much to blame-last night I laugh about the name, I know that I acted very unkindly, very unkindly, but could I act otherwise? when I saw the name I could not help laugh-I hope all the witness there when you saw the post please I mean no harm, I just say the name, I know you witness all very kind and polite and very gentle, I love you for this, may God bless you all, and may Holy Spirit can come to your hearts to let you know the Truth. And hope one day you all will become Catholic.

I do not know why sometime I like laugh something fun, even in our CAF here, when I see some name, I laugh too, many things, like when I saw a thread name: Battle for Peace, How can Battle and Peace put together? How can Battle for Peace? is it not we can get Peace only from Love?Oh, I might say wrong words to make others angry at me? :bighanky: Oh, I love you, I say to you, nevertheless, that it is my fault! And I ask you forgiveness . we all made some name or things make others laugh, like my name: roselily:blush: Ha!

Oh, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have mercy on Thy people !


Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Amen.

HAIL Mary! full of grace, the Lord is with thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

 

[NDfan]

Did even one witness actually see our Father?
I thought that- “Witness” means seeing …, must be first hand actually seeing …
but I thought that in Holy Bible said that no one can see Father face
so how can a million Witness just read Bible and became :Jehovah Witness

Oh, forgive me wonder about that?
Because I always found some name strange, and most strange is this: witness

Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord!
O mother of God, O Most Holy Mother!

They don’t claim to be witnesses OF Jehovah. They claim to be witnesses FOR Jehovah. Big difference. Just like you are a witness for Christ. You may not have seen Christ but you witness to the change that has occurred in your life because of HIM. Being a witness just means that you testify to something. You may not be an EYE witness but you can still be a witness. Jehovah’s witnesses testify to the good news contained in the Gospel.

 

[Kolbelover]

they do not “worship” Jesus, because they believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel…

next time the come to your house, ask them where that belief comes from.

 

[DavidMark]

I had two lovely Jehovah’s Witnesses call on me today. I declined their offer to attend their upcoming convention stating that I am a Christian. And so it goes… round and round. Honestly, have you ever heard of anything so wacky?

I don’t claim everything the JWs say is agreeable, but could you have had a measure of wack here too?

If you see an image of the sun in a mirror, you can say it is the sun, and learn all about it, if you are an astronomer etc. But it is not the sun. The earth orbits the object reflected, not the reflection. This is classic ambiguity.
Scripture says in many places, Christ is the Image of God. 'If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" But He is not the Father. ‘No one has seen God at any time.’
Are you the same as your father? No, but you have certain shared charateristics.
Christ is eternal, and the pre-existent Logos, or even the Primal Will, through which all else was made, but still reliant on the One. God is not just the ‘third of three.’ God is One, and it seems He needs to remind us of it about every thousand years or so!

 

[Jay53]

they do not “worship” Jesus, because they believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel…

next time the come to your house, ask them where that belief comes from.

I think Mormons believe Adam was Michael the archangel. St. Michael sure gets around.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

I dont know about them believing St Michael is Adam, I doubt that, some Mormons (Fundamentalists) believe Adam was God or a god of some sort. One Mormon told me Jesus was not God, confusing

 

[Jay53]

I dont know about them believing St Michael is Adam, I doubt that, some Mormons (Fundamentalists) believe Adam was God or a god of some sort. One Mormon told me Jesus was not God, confusing

There is that belief too, but that (I think) is not a commonly held belief among all Mormons.

Here is part of a post from a Mormon on another thread here:

Originally posted by ParkerD

To the general reader:

Adam is Michael the Archangel. If you want to learn about his roles, read Daniel 7 and Revelation 12. He does play a leading role in the on-going history of this world. His posterity included Mary, of course, who is the mother of Jesus Christ. He did help organize this world, and was sent to this world as the progenitor of the human race. The sealings in LDS temples will eventually place him in the position of being able to present his posterity to Jesus Christ for Christ to be the Advocate and Judge of all humankind, and those who have been sealed and linked to Adam and Eve through their covenants and the authority of the priesthood, will be exalted through the power given by the Father to Jesus Christ.

Adam is our great-great-great-etc. grandfather. He was righteous. Eve was righteous. They came to understand the plan of salvation and the saving role of Jesus Christ, and rejoiced in that plan. They do have an intense personal interest in the well-being of their posterity. That would include all of us. I am completely grateful to them for their lives and their choices. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5935179&highlight=St.+Michael+is+Adam#post5935179

Sorry for going off topic.

 

[DavidMark]

I think Mormons believe Adam was Michael the archangel. St. Michael sure gets around.

This does sound strange, but some rabbinic midrash say it is Archangel Michael that was Malakh Yahweh (The Angel of the Lord) that spoke from the Burning Bush. I’m inclined to agree.
Michael comes at the Advent with the Son of Man, and defeats the “Dragon” and “has charge” of the Jews etc. …so how could he be Adam?

 

[Javl]

I had two lovely Jehovah’s Witnesses call on me today. I declined their offer to attend their upcoming convention stating that I am a Christian. The conversation went like this:

JW: We are Christians too.

Me: That’s great! But who do YOU say Jesus is?

JW: Jesus is the son of God. But not God.

Me: But the Bible says Jesus IS God. John 1:1 says the word was with God and the word WAS God.

JW: Well, Jesus is a god … but He isn’t God. There are lots of “gods” - but there is only one TRUE God, and that’s Jehovah.

Me: So you believe Jesus was a false god?

JW: No, he was “a god.” Like I said, there are lots of gods. Satan is a “god.”

Me: So you believe Jesus was like Satan?

JW: No, Jesus is like God. But he isn’t the true God. He is “a god.”

Me: So you worship two Gods?

JW: Oh, we don’t worship Jesus. He isn’t God.

Me: But the Bible says there is only one true God. And you said that Jesus is God. So He is either the TRUE God or he’s a FALSE god. Which is it?

JW: He isn’t God.

Me: What about John 1:1? The Bible says he is God.

JW: He’s just “a god.”

Me: A false God?

JW: No. He’s the mighty god. But not the Almighty God.

Me: So you believe in two Gods?

JW: No. Just one God. There are lots of gods. Satan was a god.

And so it goes… round and round. Honestly, have you ever heard of anything so wacky?

This is typical JW rhetoric. Next time they say that Jesus is a god, or a mighty god, tell
them they are violating the first commandment. Also, they do believe that Jesus is the Word and created everything and that He is the first creation of God. Ask them if He is the first creation then He can’t be the creator since John 1:1-3 say that NOTHING was
created that was not created by the Word. They’ll then say that God created everything
through Him. Again if this is so, then John was speaking falsely about the Word. Also if
Jesus created everthing, then how would they explain Isaiah 44:24, where God says the He
( God ) alone created all without help? Also, if Jesus created all things and nothing was created without Him, then how could He have created Himself?

As for Jesus being a mighty god, then the Jews worshipped two Gods. In Isaiah 10:21
Israel worships the Mighty God, and in Isaiah 17:21 it says that Israel worships only the
Holy God. Now we all know that Israel worships only one God, therefore if Israel worships the Mighty God and Jesus is the mighty god, then this is one proof that Jesus IS God!

Be prepared for a stock reply “I/we will have to check that out and then get back to you”.
Don’t hold your breath because they rarely do. If they do return with an answer they will quote many scriptures taken out of context to try to prove and convince you that
Isaiah meant some thing else. Just tell them that Isaiah knew what he was writing and
that you believe Isaiah before them.
God Bless.

PAX DOMINI :signof cross:

Shalom Aleichem

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

You do realize until about ~1954 the Jehovah Witnesses were taught Jesus worship was fine (although they didn’t believe HE was God). When the question is pushed why the Watchtower changed things like this they may response something like “We we’re still weeding out the false doctrines that we had when we came out of the false religions”. That is how one JW lady justified the changes and errors of past JW’s, recovering from Christianity still…This is also what they might say when explaining why the first JWs had crosses and even Charles T Russel’s tomb has a cross and a crown on it, whereas modern JW believe the Cross is pagan, and true one was a pole/torture stake.

 

[Javl]

You do realize until about ~1954 the Jehovah Witnesses were taught Jesus worship was fine (although they didn’t believe HE was God). When the question is pushed why the Watchtower changed things like this they may response something like “We we’re still weeding out the false doctrines that we had when we came out of the false religions”. That is how one JW lady justified the changes and errors of past JW’s, recovering from Christianity still…This is also what they might say when explaining why the first JWs had crosses and even Charles T Russel’s tomb has a cross and a crown on it, whereas modern JW believe the Cross is pagan, and true one was a pole/torture stake.

Yes, and believe it or not, some of the old time JWs still wear the cross and dispute the
pagan pole/stake belief. They cite undisputable historical evidence in the use of a cross.
This use of the pole/stake instead of the cross is another notch in the WBTS’s use of mind control and to further distance themselves from “organized religions”.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem