Jehovah's Witnesses and Blood Transfusions

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I could never, would never be a Jehovah’s Witness–not only from a purely logical theological standpoint but also because two blood transfusions saved my life.

While pregnant with SweetGirlTwo, I developed thrombocytopenia. Then while birthing her, I hemorrhaged badly and lost a great amount of blood. SweetGirlDaddy, to this day, says he couldn’t believe all the blood that was coming out of me. My perinatologist and hematologist were of one accord in the decision to transfuse me, and I will never forget lying there in my hospital bed, literally feeling–seriously, it was the most inscrutable physical feeling–these anonymous blood donations flowing into me and strengthening me by the hour.

So if a JW ever comes to my house, they likely won’t be prepared for when I tell them, YES, I have four kinds of blood running through me–that which is mine, the blood gift donations from the two donors, and the blood of my Jesus. ❤️
 
BibleSteve said:
Actually if the Bible said “Abstain from Heroin” or “Abstain from penicillin”, or frankly "Abstain from ", I would take it’s advice as the Inspired Word of God and obey it. I wouldn’t eat it, or inject it into my veins.

Steve
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And this is why two of the governing body members donated blood at a UN blood drive? They were photographed so there’s proof of this. It’s all hyprocrisy.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
I understand, Steve, that that is your understanding of how you read those scripture verses. I only ask that you reconsider the explanation I provided above of what the Jerusalem ruling actually was, and the circumstances which provoked the ruling. It also happens to be the understanding of very many scripture scholars who have examined that ruling from all angles.
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I appreciate your analysis of the question and have thought about it carefully. Like anything related to the Bible, there are various understandings from people who review it from all angles.

Note, the scripture here also says: “Abstain from fornication”. What is more important to you, obeying this scripture, or saving your life?

Do you think Joseph’s refusal to fornicate with Potipher’s wife would have been OK with Jehovah if his life was on the line? That Jehovah would understand, because after all, it would the merciful thing to make sure that Joseph stayed alive?

I try not to find side loopholes, to circumvent what a scripture says, for example….When it says “Abstain from fornication”, does that mean I can go off and watch pornography of someone else doing fornication? Afterall, I’m not actually violating the command to abstain, right?

When I look at Scripture, I try diligently to look for the simplest explanation. What would Jehovah have had to say if he didn’t want people taking ____________ in any form or fashion? To me, he’d say “Abstain from _______________”
Steve, you may not realize it, but if you eat any red meat at all, you do eat blood every time you eat the red meat. A nice sized steak will result in your eating about a tablespoon of blood.
God knows that you are eating that blood and he does not forbid you from eating red meat. If you eat a 1/3 pound ground beef hamburger on a bun, you are getting just over a teaspoon of whole blood in that meat. It cannot be avoided.
The meat is bled because most people do not want to eat gobs of blood in their food and also because bleeding the meat helps keep it fresh longer. But you and I eat blood every time we eat red meat. God’s point in forbidding the Israelites to eat blood was to highlight for them the fact that blood is to be used in sacrifice, not treated deliberately as common food. But God knows that even bled meat still has whole blood in it, and he’s not going to kill you at Armageddon for eating a Whopper every now and then.
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Yes, of course, there are always going to be small remnants of blood in any meat. What did Jehovah say? He gave instructions on bleeding the animal, and allowed mankind to eat meat.
We are not discussing whether remnants of blood are left over in something that has been properly bleed, we’re talking about taking a bag of blood and injecting it directly into your mouth or veins and whether that violates the scripture to “Abstain from _____________”

It doesn’t say “Abstain from _____________, unless it’s a matter of your life, then go ahead”…

Steve
 
yessisan said:
And this is why two of the governing body members donated blood at a UN blood drive? They were photographed so there’s proof of this. It’s all hyprocrisy.
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And are you going to be providing evidence on this claim, or is this just a quick hit-and-run claim?

How about commenting on the points I’ve made about my own personal decision instead of taking unsubstantiated swipes at other people? It might provide more value for the discussion.

Steve
 
BibleSteve said:
And are you going to be providing evidence on this claim, or is this just a quick hit-and-run claim?

How about commenting on the points I’ve made about my own personal decision instead of taking unsubstantiated swipes at other people? It might provide more value for the discussion.

Steve
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I’m looking for the pdf online so I can post it, otherwise I have to wait till I get home and get the document from my anti-JW binder and bring it tomorrow.
 
This whole discussion reminds me again of the problem of each individual being his own Pope and interpreting scripture the way that suits them best - pretty much ignoring the context.
For example, I could tell BibleSteve that scripture clearly says:

“4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,” 1 Tim 4:4

God created blood. Everything God created is good. Therefore blood is good. Scripture clearly tells us we are not to reject anything created by God - which would include blood. You are rejecting the clear teaching of scripture that blood is good when you reject transfusions - therefore you are rejecting God’s word (and ultimately God Himself).

I am thankful everyday we have a Magisterium lead by the Holy Spirit to all truth so I don’t have to be my own Pope.

MBS1
 
What if the passage said: “Abstain from alcohol.” Would you know whether it was telling you to abstain from rubbing alcohol, ethanol, liquor or what have you? “Abstain from blood.” Some people feel it is talking about animal blood and has nothing to do with human blood. It’s interesting that the Jews have the Old Testament and they have never reached a conclusion that it forbids blood transfusions. How would you answer those who interpret “Abstain from blood” to mean shedding of human blood and having nothing to do with the intake of blood?
 
MBS1 said:
For example, I could tell BibleSteve that scripture clearly says:

“4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,” 1 Tim 4:4

God created blood. Everything God created is good. Therefore blood is good. Scripture clearly tells us we are not to reject anything created by God - which would include blood. You are rejecting the clear teaching of scripture that blood is good when you reject transfusions - therefore you are rejecting God’s word (and ultimately God Himself).
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To me this is like arguing fornication is OK. Afterall God created sex and sex is good, so we should just ignore the scripture that says “Abstain from Fornication”… Afterall, if we do it with thanksgiving, it’s OK…
 
See? I wasn’t crazy. After searching and searching I finally found it.

Safe Blood find the JWs mentioned in pages 7–9—53 and 54. But they actually weren’t photographed but the article does mention that they all had to participate in the drive.

randytv.com/secret/wtandwho.htm
 
Claude_Kenneson said:
What if the passage said: “Abstain from alcohol.” Would you know whether it was telling you to abstain from rubbing alcohol, ethanol, liquor or what have you?
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It’s similar to the argument earlier about fornication. When he said “Abstain from fornication”, did he mean it was OK, if we love the other person, or if we’re engaged? Does it mean it’s ok to watch porno with other people doing it, but not us? How about just daydreaming about fornication, but not really doing it? Or how about seriously heavy petting with someone your not married to, would that be OK?

Children try to do this with their parents. The parents tell them not to do something and kids find anyway to side-step the parent’s specific request… arguing the parents didn’t actually use some absolultly specific word or phrase that would have covered their disobeying the parents request.

I simply don’t want to be in a position to have to answer the question: "What didn’t you understand about “Abstain from _________?”
“Abstain from blood.” Some people feel it is talking about animal blood and has nothing to do with human blood. It’s interesting that the Jews have the Old Testament and they have never reached a conclusion that it forbids blood transfusions. How would you answer those who interpret “Abstain from blood” to mean shedding of human blood and having nothing to do with the intake of blood?
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The shedding of human blood is covered throughout the Bible being described by words like murder, killing, etc.

The principle of avoiding intake of blood was not a new topic at the time of Acts. It had been the subject of discussion many times before in the OT.

Steve
 
yessisan said:
See? I wasn’t crazy. After searching and searching I finally found it.

Safe Blood find the JWs mentioned in pages 7–9—53 and 54. But they actually weren’t photographed but the article does mention that they all had to participate in the drive.

randytv.com/secret/wtandwho.htm
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You made the claim that Governing Body members were photographed donating blood at a UN blood drive.

You have presented a document that simply says, representatives of JW’s were in attendance at the World Health Day, where safe blood methods were being discussed.

Representatives of JW’s, specifically the Hospital Laisaon Committee are specifically tasked to go to hospitals, doctors, and other “blood-transfusion” proponents to educate them about alternatives to blood transfusion…They proactively go to these health professionals to educated them about the state-of-the-art medical research around the world to provide better surguries without the use of human blood transfusions.

Where is your proof Governing Body members ran over to a blood drive and donated blood? Pictures? Any statements they donated?, etc.

You’ve made a big leap of unsubstatiated claim here… this was really weak…

Steve
 
BibleSteve said:
You made the claim that Governing Body members were photographed donating blood at a UN blood drive.

You have presented a document that simply says, representatives of JW’s were in attendance at the World Health Day, where safe blood methods were being discussed.

Representatives of JW’s, specifically the Hospital Laisaon Committee are specifically tasked to go to hospitals, doctors, and other “blood-transfusion” proponents to educate them about alternatives to blood transfusion…

Where is your proof Governing Body members ran over to a blood drive and donated blood? Pictures? Any statements they donated?, etc.

Steve
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I made a mistake saying they were photographed. I hadn’t seen this in over a yr. Sorry, I guess Catholics can’t make mistakes or they will beaten with a club.

This was a UN event (remember the w**re of Babylon?), and this has to do with blood. All the people who attended were supposed to donate their blood, so why would JWs attend? I thought the UN was an enemy of the WTBS, and attending a blood event seems a bit hypocritical.
 
yessisan said:
I…why would JWs attend? .
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They proactively go to these health professionals to educated them about the state-of-the-art medical research around the world to provide better surguries without the use of human blood transfusions.
 
BibleSteve said:
They proactively go to these health professionals to educated them about the state-of-the-art medical research around the world to provide better surguries without the use of human blood transfusions.
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Ok, acceptable
 
yessisan said:
I made a mistake saying they were photographed. I hadn’t seen this in over a yr. Sorry, I guess Catholics can’t make mistakes or they will beaten with a club.
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In summary, contrary to your claim:

There were no pictures
No Governing Body Members present
No evidence of them donating blood

All it said was that JW representatives were present at a World Health Day event where the topic of discussion was providing safe blood. This is entirely in line with what JW’s proactively do in teaching others about blood alternatives.

I’m not beating you up with a club. I’m simply hoping you will have more of a critical mind and check your facts before slinging unsubstantiated claims against other people.

Steve
 
BibleSteve said:
On page 127 of the PDF file is a section: “Is there any alternative to blood”. The JW representatives likely presented information on that topic.

While you’re on this topic, take a read of this:

theage.com.au/news/national/treating-patients-like-jehovahs-witnesses-could-save-lives-expert/2007/05/27/1180205077463.html

Steve
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Since we’re on this topic, can you tell me if the blood alternative video from the WBTS is available anywhere else than a KH?

Do you have anothe link with statistical data that shows survival rate with blood transfusions and w/o transfusions? How about one that includes the blood subtitiues vs whole blood?
 
yessisan said:
Since we’re on this topic, can you tell me if the blood alternative video from the WBTS is available anywhere else than a KH? Do you have anothe link with statistical data that shows survival rate with blood transfusions and w/o transfusions? How about one that includes the blood subtitiues vs whole blood?
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The “Blood Alternative” video is only available through the local Kingdom Hall. Just have your husband get a copy, or just borrow a copy from one of the friends.

For others, this is a detailed examination of all the medical alternatives rather than just transfusing blood. It is a documentary with multiple interviews of noted medical doctors about the state-of-the-art methods being used throughout the world for bloodless surgery. Because of the successes they’ve had with JW’s as the willing pioneers of this surgery, doctors are now looking to treat non-JW patients without blood.

As for statistics, did you read through the link I gave? There are some statistics in there.

Steve
 
BibleSteve said:
As for statistics, did you read through the link I gave? There are some statistics in there.
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Yes I did, but that only shows one number.
a study in Sweden of 499 Witnesses showed their survival rates were higher than people who received transfusions
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what about medical journal links or the like? Something that shows real statistics. A study with control groups perhaps. I studied Psychology so I rather rely on medical studies than just a news article.
 
yessisan said:
Yes I did, but that only shows one number. what about medical journal links or the like? Something that shows real statistics. A study with control groups perhaps. I studied Psychology so I rather rely on medical studies than just a news article.
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Your best bet is to watch that video… it has lots of information like that with interviews with the doctors who are doing these bloodless surgeries.

Steve
 
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