Jehovahs Witnesses and the Trinity

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As for the doctrine of the trinity, it is true that the word trinity does not appear at all in the bible.
But, it is alluded to in the old testament and revealed in the new testament. Although we humans
with our finite minds cannot fully comprehend the trinity we call it a mystery and rightly so. When
we finally meet our creator the full revelation of the trinity will be presented and explained to us,
until then we accept it as a matter of faith.

To prove the existence of the trinity in scripture, we begin with Genesis 1:26. Here God says “Let
us make man in our image…”, “But”, says the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ( WBTS: Jehovahs Witnesses ), " here God was talking to His angels".
Our response to this is to ask “Since when did the angels take part in creation? God alone is the
creator of all things.” And again in Genesis 11:7, in refering to the tower of Babel, God says
“Come let us go down…”, it is certain that again He is not talking to the angels in this instance.
Revelation of the trinity begins in Genesis and continues with Abraham, through Elijiah, Isaiah,
etc., down through the new testament to our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ,

Continuing, the WTBS at one time taught that Jesus, in His spiritual form, was Michael the
archangel and that after His resurrection he was adopted by God the Father as His son and be-
came the Word. This teaching now has been updated to Jesus, as the Word, is the first crea-
tion of the Father and that as the Word He created everything else. Also, the Word is not God,
but a god. Of course, this is in violation of the second commandment and contradicts John 1:1-3
and Isaiah 44:24. (Let us keep in mind that we, as believing Christians, accept the bible as the
inerrant infallible Word of God. Although written by men, it was written under the inspiration of
the Holy Spirit.).

In John 1:1-3 we read that the Word is God and that He made everything and that nothing was
made that He did not make. If Jesus was created and is the Word, then how could He have crea-
ted Himself? When presented with this the WBTS would find it very difficult to explain this no
matter how liberal a translation of the Gospel of John. And also, if the Word is not God, but a
god then the WTBS must explain the meaning of Isaiah 44:24 where God says “…I alone .
created you I am the creator of all things…when I made the earth, no one helped me”.And in
Isaiah 45:18 Isaiah says of God “The Lord created the heavens. He is the one who is God. He
formed and made the earth…” Now then if the Word created all and Jesus is the Word, then
just these passages alone prove that Jesus is God and the WBTS teaching is false.

The apostle Thomas, in John 20:28, when he sees the risen Jesus calls Him “My Lord and my
God”. The WBTS says that Thomas was surprised to see Him ( which may be true) and used
that expression much like we use “Oh, my God” today. What the WBTS fails to realize is that
Thomas, like all Jews of his day, was devout and orthodox and would consider an expression

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like that as blasphemy. WhenThomas said “My Lord and my God” to Jesus, he knew exactly
what he was saying and acknowledged that Jesus was God, the Son. Also, when the apostles
worshiped Him (Mat 28:17 and LK 24:52) why did He not rebuke them since worship belongs
to God alone?

Again, Isaiah says, in Isaiah 9:6, “A child is born to us…He will be called…Mighty God…”.
This is understood by all to refer to Jesus. “But”, says the WBTS, even though it pertains to
Jesus, he may be a mighty god but he is not Almighty God!". If this is so, then why is the God
of Israel called a “Mighty God” in Isaiah 10:21, since Israel worships only the one true God?
Isaiah 17:7 says that “…people will turn for help to their Creator, the holy God of Israel”. In Isaiah
43:15 God says “I am the Lord, your holy God. I created you Israel and I am your king”. Since
the Creator is the Logos and Jesus is the Logos, He must be the holy Almighty God of Israel.

Another example of proof is in Exodus 3:14 when Moses asks God what His name is. God says
that He is called “I AM”’, “I am who I am…that is My name forever”. When Jesus was telling the
Jewish authorities who He is said " I am who I am" (John 8:28). Again in John 8:58 He tells them
“Before Abraham was I AM”. “But” ,says the WBTS, “if Jesus is God, then why does He says in
John 14:28 that the Father is greater than He is?” The answer to this question is “Yes. His Father
is greater than He is.” Isn’t your father greater than you are? Jesus said this to distinguish His
position in filial relationship, but not in glory, majesty, or power. As you share your human nature
with your father, Jesus shares the Divine Nature with His Father. Jesus receives all direction and
authority from His Father, just as you do from yours.

Now, in John 1:18, John says that no one has ever seen the Father. Jesus reiterates and empha-
sizes this is John 6:46 where He says that no one has seen the Father except the Son, and it is
repeated again in the first letter of John at 4:12. If this is so, then who was it that appeared to
Abraham (Gen 12:7 and 18:1), Moses, Aaron, Nadeh, Samuel, Ezekiel, and all the others. If it
wasn’t God the Father, then it had to be God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit.

Continuing further in scripture, God is called Saviour in Isaiah 12:2 and 44:24, 1Timothy 1:2 .
and 4:10, and in Titus 1:3, also in many places in the book of Revelation. Now, since Jesus
came to earth as our Saviour and according to the WBTS Jesus is not God, then we have two
saviours, God and Jesus. This, then, would make no sense according to scripture. We now
either have two saviours or Jesus must be God! There are numerous other instances in scri-
pture that show and prove that Jesus is God and the second person of the Holy Trinity.

Another erroneous teaching of the WBTS is that “the holy spirit is the active force of God, much
like a radar beam.”. Denying the existence of the Holy Spirit and relegating Him to existence as
a “radar beam” is tantamount to sheer blasphemy. How can a “radar beam” be lied to, speak,
send forth, teach, bestow gifts, etc.? These actions are not those of an “active force” but of an
entity, the third person of the Holy Trinity. In Acts 5:3-4 Peter calls the Holy Spirit God when he
tells Ananias that he has lied to God. How can you lie to an “active force like a radar beam”?

Again, in Acts 8:29, the Holy Spirit talks to and sends the apostle Philip to teach the Ethiopian
official. How can an “active force” do this? Acts 9:31 states that the churches of Judea, Galilee,
and Samaria all had a time of peace through the help of the Holy Spirit. While Paul, Barnabas,
Simeon, Lucius, and Manaen were all serving the Lord and fasting, in Acts 13:1-3, the Holy
Spirit said to “Set apart for me Barnabas and Paul to do the work for which I have called them.”.
And in Acts 13:4 they are sent by the Holy Spirit to preach the word of God. The Holy Spirit
teaches (Heb 9:8), gives witness (Heb 10:15), answers (Rev 14:13), bestows gifts (1Cor.12:7-11),
and does many other things that only God can do. He is truly God and the third person of the Holy
Trinity. These are but a few examples of proof in scripture that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God
and that although the word trinity does not exist in scripture it does exist in reality, as revealed to us by God.

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It is true that we see but are blind, and we hear but are deaf when it comes to the truth. We must
all pray to the Holy Spirit for each and every Jehovahs Witness that He opens their eyes and
minds to the truth as given to us by Jesus Christ through His apostles, which has remained unch-
anged down through the ages, and they not be duped again into believing all the false and erron-
eous doctrines.

NOTE:All Biblical references are from The Good News Bible, The New International Version of
the Holy Bible, and The St.Joseph Bible.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach Totus Tuus Domini
 
To prove the existence of the trinity in scripture, we begin with Genesis 1:26. Here God says “Let
us make man in our image…”, “But”, says the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ( WBTS: Jehovahs Witnesses ), " here God was talking to His angels".
Our response to this is to ask “Since when did the angels take part in creation? God alone is the
creator of all things.” And again in Genesis 11:7, in refering to the tower of Babel, God says
“Come let us go down…”, it is certain that again He is not talking to the angels in this instance.
Revelation of the trinity begins in Genesis and continues with Abraham, through Elijiah, Isaiah,
etc., down through the new testament to our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ,
Exactly! Angels are also creatures and not Eternal.More important,the plural US cannot be His angels,because God did not make the angels in His image. Unless I am overlooking scripture? If He did,where does scripture state the angels are made in God’s image?
 
Exactly! Angels are also creatures and not Eternal.More important,the plural US cannot be His angels,because God did not make the angels in His image. Unless I am overlooking scripture? If He did,where does scripture state the angels are made in God’s image?
It doesn’t. As far as I’m aware, the Bible does not discuss the creation of angels.
 
Mormons claim the terms “us” and “our” proves that God was speaking not of angels but of other gods (or Gods). Mormonism teaches that there are many gods.

A man and the Bible can be a dangerous thing without the guidance of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world.
 
QUOTE=CatholicGuyNY;6873697]It doesn’t. As far as I’m aware, the Bible does not discuss the creation of angels.
Genisis 1:3
Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4
God saw how good the light was. God then separated the light from the darkness.

The first recorded fall between the heavenly angels and lucifer and his demons.

But this may be another topic off the Op subject.
 
I was arguing with a friend the other day and he asked me why Jesus doesn’t know when He (Jesus) will return?.. If only the Father knows the hour of His (Jesus’) second coming then Jesus doesn’t know everything which implies that the Father is superior to Jesus but the trinity implies Jesus = Father = Holy Spirit
 
I was arguing with a friend the other day and he asked me why Jesus doesn’t know when He (Jesus) will return?.. If only the Father knows the hour of His (Jesus’) second coming then Jesus doesn’t know everything which implies that the Father is superior to Jesus but the trinity implies Jesus = Father = Holy Spirit
 
The WTBS’s understanding of the Trinity is flawed because they never bother to find out what the Church really teaches about it. It’s a red herring argument. I vivdly remember as a JW studying what we thought was the Trinity doctrine, which looking back was really modalism, and proof texting the Early Church Fathers. To the unlearned, it can sound like a very convincing argument. With so many WTBS arguments, they construct a false understanding of a doctrine of the Church and then attack it when they really don;t know what it is that the Church teaches. The WTBS, sadly, are not the only ones guilty of this.
 
The WTBS’s understanding of the Trinity is flawed because they never bother to find out what the Church really teaches about it. It’s a red herring argument. I vivdly remember as a JW studying what we thought was the Trinity doctrine, which looking back was really modalism, and proof texting the Early Church Fathers. To the unlearned, it can sound like a very convincing argument. With so many WTBS arguments, they construct a false understanding of a doctrine of the Church and then attack it when they really don;t know what it is that the Church teaches. The WTBS, sadly, are not the only ones guilty of this.
Many Mormons do this too (I started a thread awhile ago on that very topic). Sadly, some Trinitarians misunderstand the Trinity as well, confusing it with modalism.
 
I was arguing with a friend the other day and he asked me why Jesus doesn’t know when He (Jesus) will return?.. If only the Father knows the hour of His (Jesus’) second coming then Jesus doesn’t know everything which implies that the Father is superior to Jesus but the trinity implies Jesus = Father = Holy Spirit
Your friend is wrong! When JW’s and many anti-Trinitarians quote John: The Father is greater than I. Jesus is not referring to being inferior to the Father in the sense of their Substance. If man begts man,then God begets…God,therefore Jesus is God. Jesus refers to submitting Himself to the will of His Father.
 
The WTBS’s understanding of the Trinity is flawed because they never bother to find out what the Church really teaches about it. It’s a red herring argument. I vivdly remember as a JW studying what we thought was the Trinity doctrine, which looking back was really modalism, and proof texting the Early Church Fathers. To the unlearned, it can sound like a very convincing argument. With so many WTBS arguments, they construct a false understanding of a doctrine of the Church and then attack it when they really don;t know what it is that the Church teaches. The WTBS, sadly, are not the only ones guilty of this.
Oh indeed do they proof-text the church fathers and will turn blue in the face denying it.:mad:
 
I actually don’t think the Trinity is a hard concept to imagine or understand. Taking into account that we, as humans are “stuck” in a world of time that limits us in our existence. God lives in another reality of no time and space. He also exists in another reality, our universe, as Jesus which is separate from heaven. And the Holy Spirit is the essence of His existence which makes God and Jesus one.The same essence.

We are limited into existence of our realities. God coexists in different realities, He has to because the two realities need God as the creator.
 
Mormons claim the terms “us” and “our” proves that God was speaking not of angels but of other gods (or Gods). Mormonism teaches that there are many gods.

A man and the Bible can be a dangerous thing without the guidance of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world.
…just an interjection: Mormons are not Jehovah’s Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses hate Mormonism. They have more anti-Mormon tracts in their arsenal than you guys do. We share very few beliefs.

Carry on…
 
…just an interjection: Mormons are not Jehovah’s Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses hate Mormonism. They have more anti-Mormon tracts in their arsenal than you guys do. We share very few beliefs.

Carry on…
I do know and I make sure I don’t mix or confuse the two.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
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