Jehovah's Witnesses at my door

  • Thread starter Thread starter admonsta
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

admonsta

Guest
I had a visit from two very nice ladies yesterday, who tried to convince me that as a Catholic, I was severely misguided. I was surprised to find that I could successfully rebut just about all of their arguments. Every time I asked the main speaker to explain an inconsistency, she would move on to the next point. Having the argument actually made me feel much more confident in my beliefs, so it was a good thing that they came calling.

My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
 
admonsta said:
I had a visit from two very nice ladies yesterday, who tried to convince me that as a Catholic, I was severely misguided. I was surprised to find that I could successfully rebut just about all of their arguments. Every time I asked the main speaker to explain an inconsistency, she would move on to the next point. Having the argument actually made me feel much more confident in my beliefs, so it was a good thing that they came calling.

My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
Click to expand...
Well if the Catholic Bible is in error then why wouldn’t the Protestant versions, or their New World Translation, also be held to the same standard, and also in error? The New Testament is written in Greek, and there are Interlinear Translations out there that give you a word for word breakdown of what each word means in the original Greek. The JW’s even have their own version, the Kingom Interlinear Translation; which show how the translators of the NWT deliberately change the words in the New Testament when compared to the original Greek, to try and prove their pre-determined beliefs (Romans 10:13, John 1:1, Colossians 1:15,…)

Have members of the Catholic Church committed great sins throughout the year, absolutely. Have members of every organized religion committed great sins throughout the years, absolutely. For Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast the stone.” Jesus never said that his true Church on the earth would be led by sinless men, afterall, we are all human. If the lady cared to investigate, she would find that members of her religion have committed some of the same sins she attacks Catholics for. Now i’m not condoning this in any way, but to attack someone for being organized with group X that has had members convicted of a particular crime, all while affiliating with group Y who has had members convicted of the same crime, is hypocritical.

If you keep on the point of authority (whose interpretation to believe) then they really can’t answer. Obviously, they believe what the Watchtower tells them to believe, but they are led to believe that is the interpretation that they would have gotten had they read the scriptures without their guidance. If you had to choose someone’s interpretation (and not your own,) would you really choose the intepretation of a group who came into existence in the late 1800’s while constantly predicting the end of the world since it’s inception?
 
If you really want to go for the knock out blow, point out the errors in their own publications. jw.org/en/publications/ Another book that will be of help to you is called Reasoning From The Scriptures. My friend has a copy of it and I have been able to look over it. Basically, it is a how do I respond to this question list, so you can know what the basic response to your arguments will be. If it is of any encouragement, the same friend that has the book said when he lived in Oregon, his dad (who happens to be a pastor) regularly destroyed JW and LDS missionaries sent to his house, and both groups eventually blacklisted the house and stopped sending people to their door. Good luck in your debate! :blessyou:
 
Every few years we get a visit from our JW “friends” and I must say I thank them for getting me even stronger into my faith when having to defend it. One day I shall convert at least one of them! LOL… I do not like when any one group attacks another but when it comes to the JW (as friendly as they seem to be) they sure do like changing up the “Word”. I like the internet to do research in how they work at getting one to believe their way. Good to read so you know what to expect. There are some books out there to read about cults and how they work and I’m sure , maybe someone on here, can lead you to a good reliable website . Not to worry I find out that after about the 4th visit when you stand firm in your faith they seem to disappear as soon as they appeared!
 
Note: the Jehovah’s have their own bible, it has been reworded in places. I am always nice to them but make it clear I am Catholic and they want to talk about anything but religion they are welcome.
 
admonsta said:
My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
Click to expand...
The one thing that I can tell you for certain is…She will be back…and likely with reinforcements. This IS NOT a problem… :confused:

As for the “crimes against humanity” committed by the Church over the last two thousand years…Christ tells us that there would be sinful men among us that would do horrible deeds, but that he would wait until the harvest and collect the weeds with the wheat, and at that time he would cast the weeds into the fire. (MT 13:24) Their evil deeds have not changed the WORD handed down by the Church founded by Christ. (MT 16:18)

Additionally, using the words of Bishop Sheen, “There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” Invite them to learn the truth about the Church! 😃

Our teaching is that the person sitting in the Chair of Peter is infallible when it comes to the teachings of the Church, but not that this person is impeccable and without sin. Do not feel like you need to defend the scoundrels that hold any particular office, they will be judged whether it be here on earth at their final judgement. It is their intent to put you on defense.

Remember also that it is the Church that is the pillar and foundation of the Truth (Tim 3:15), and not the Bible.

She will answer your question about their authority for interpretation…eventually? She must first undermine your current faith and replace it with a “reasoning” that they think makes sense. If you understand that all of their teachings come from the “Governing Body” (up to 12 people in Brooklyn, New York), before you “buy in” to their position, then you may question their history and learn of their patterns of false prophecy. At that point it is virtually impossible for them to “make the sale!”

There is a very valuable tool called “the dating game” that uses their publications to draw a very detailed picture of these false prophecies. When you mention false false prophecy, they will talk about the preaching work and how they are following the directions of Jesus. They will say that it is good work and that you will know them by their fruits. (Mt 7:16) However this verse is talking about false prophets and the bible also tells us how to recognize false prophets. (Deu 18:22) (1 Jn 4:1) I missed the opportunity to point this out when I first used this tool, mainly because of my lack of familiarity with the entire verse.]

They will attempt to change course to remain among the topics that they are comfortable with, generally referred to as “Bible Ping-Pong.” Catholics are generally ill-equipped to play this game.:eek:

The next time they arrive and want to talk about the Bible, ask them to sit down and read the entire chapter of John 6. Ask them if they have eaten of the flesh of the Son of Man? (They will say no, because they are not of the elect.) Then how can they have life? They will say that this part of the Bible was only intended for the Apostles, which is why the twelve were the only ones in the upper-room for the Last Supper. And yet, HERE in John 6, he was speaking to Scribes, Pharisees, and everyone else! Not to mention he had just fed THOUSANDS with a few loaves and fishes.👍

Study with them what the Bible says, rather than what their magazine says (and mis-uses Bible verses to back it up).

Keep spreading the Word!

Peace
 
JW’s use the old testament books such as ecclesiastes, job, and some of the psalms to prove that at death, you do not physically exist any longer. They do not believe that people “have” a soul, but rather are a living soul only when body and spirit are combined. They try to get very creative showing the difference between soul and spirit, but most common JWs do not fully understand it themselves because it gets complicated. These false understandings help to create the idea that Hell, “Gehenna” is not a place or condition, but rather a metaphor for non existance. Therefore if you die and are not resurrected, you have been thrown into gehenna symbolically, you have no hope of ever been brought back to life. They believe in annihilation without using the term.

Now they are somewhat correct in their interpretation of “sheol” or “hades” not being hell, as some translations translate it. The Church does teach that these terms do not mean the eternal condition of the evil, but rather the grave of non-existance from the physical world. The difference is that the Church teaches that all humans have an immortal soul, good or evil, that goes somewhere after death. Paul pretty much spells that out when he writes that he longs to die so that he could be at home with Jesus, obviously that was long before the ressurection of the body that we are awaiting.

The best thing I would tell you to do if you really want to stump them about their theory of non existance after death, is to read through Eccleseastes and Job if you have time. I’ll try to find the main chapters they use and post them later. What you can show them is that the context of the books is critical in what is written. In the context, it is very clear that the non existance at death is spoken of purely from a physical standpoint and purely dealing with affairs of the world at that very moment.
 
admonsta said:
I had a visit from two very nice ladies yesterday, who tried to convince me that as a Catholic, I was severely misguided. I was surprised to find that I could successfully rebut just about all of their arguments. Every time I asked the main speaker to explain an inconsistency, she would move on to the next point. Having the argument actually made me feel much more confident in my beliefs, so it was a good thing that they came calling.

My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
Click to expand...
Keep it simple. You need to control the conversation. Be the one to ask a question and do not let them go off topic until they have answered your question satisfactorily. Pick a subject like the Trinity, get your notes together and let that be the conversation of the day.

As time goes on you can learn how to refute all of their doctrines, but take it an issue at a time and learn your arguments well along the way. They will try and slip away from areas with which they are uncomfortable. Don’t let them. As I said, it is very important that you control the conversation. They are in your house and don’t be afraid to remind them of that if need be.

They have a map with them of every house in the area that they are visiting. Some of those houses have big X marks drawn through them. It means don’t bother with these folks. I have a big X mark on my house and haven’t seen them in years. They are not interested in debating. They are really not all that interested in converting you. They are out filling a monthly quota of visitations which they then must turn into the head office in New York in order to remain in good standing. So be nice. I feel sorry for these poor people.
 
I usually offer them a copy of the Catechism to take with them. (I am the RCIA Director).

I have even given them (or tried to) give them prayer cards, real Bibles, Rosaries, etc.

I also invite them to Mass as they are high tailing it down the street. (and I’m usually right behind them)

I just never understand why they don’t hang around. :D:shrug:
 
twopekinguys said:
I usually offer them a copy of the Catechism to take with them. (I am the RCIA Director).

I have even given them (or tried to) give them prayer cards, real Bibles, Rosaries, etc.

I also invite them to Mass as they are high tailing it down the street. (and I’m usually right behind them)

I just never understand why they don’t hang around. :D:shrug:
Click to expand...
lol. I told them they could come in and visit but only if they promised to come back at least five times because I had a lot I wanted to discuss with them. After the first visit they have never returned.
 
Couple of questions you may think about to help you to prepare for the next meeting:
  1. What is your purpose behind meeting with them again? What do you hope to accomplish? If your intent is to plant small seeds of doubt in their Watchtower’s authority vs. a Bible verse by Bible verse battle or you simply want to show them the unconditional Love of Christ, your preparation will be different. Make a decision about what you want to achieve.
  2. They always come in a group of 2 or more. Is there any problem with you having another person with you? Maybe you have another friend who is willing and able to support you by being there.
admonsta said:
I had a visit from two very nice ladies yesterday, who tried to convince me that as a Catholic, I was severely misguided. I was surprised to find that I could successfully rebut just about all of their arguments. Every time I asked the main speaker to explain an inconsistency, she would move on to the next point. Having the argument actually made me feel much more confident in my beliefs, so it was a good thing that they came calling.

My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
Click to expand...
 
I had some visit for a short time a few weeks ago. I was setting up a shooting session at my house for the women of the church. After I explained why I was busy and did not have a lot of time to talk, the man who got out of the car was really anxious to get back into it. 😉
 
SteveVH said:
lol. I told them they could come in and visit but only if they promised to come back at least five times because I had a lot I wanted to discuss with them. After the first visit they have never returned.
Click to expand...
Don’t you just hate it when that happens? 😛
 
A few weeks ago, I had a visit from a JW. I mistakenly thought that he was a Christian pastor, because he seemed to avoid all doctrinal points on that first visit.

He said he would be back, would investigate the Resurrection references I gave him, and gave me a Watchtower tract.

I then looked up the JW beliefs online. Basically, they don’t believe in the Divinity of Christ and they don’t believe in Hell and, except for the 144,000, they don’t believe in Heaven.

So, when he came back, I directly asked him: “Do you believe Jesus is God?” He said, “No.” I said, “There is no point [to discussing Scripture therefore.” There was more said, but he said he was seeking the truth. I said to him, “**Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

He shook is head in disbelief and said that, for each Scripture reference I brought up proving my point, he could quote several more in opposition.

My point is that all the Scriptures hold together in Christ and that nothing contradicting Christ is true. Therefore, we have no common ground for discussion with the JWs. They will continue to disbelieve Christ our Savior and find contradictions in Scripture for the purpose of useless arguments.

So, just tell him you’re Catholic and don’t even let them in for useless arguments.
 
ECCL 9:5 For the living know that they are to die, but the dead no longer know anything. There is no further recompense for them, because all memory of them is lost.
Click to expand...
This is a favorite bible verse that they use to illustrate that there is no consciousness after death. However, the verse is taken out of context. If you Read on…
ECCL 9:6 For them, love and hatred and rivalry have long since perished. Never again will they have part in anything that is done under the sun.
Click to expand...
They preach that the saved Jehovah’s Witnesses will live forever on “Paradise Earth”. How can this be, if they will NEVER again have part in anything that is done under the sun? The genre of this book is not taken into account and they “select” the verse that supports their position, but ignore the verse that contradicts another teaching?

Where is the “reasoning” in this? 🤷

If you read further…
ECCL 9:7 *Go, eat your bread with joy and drink your wine with a merry heart, *because it is now that God favors your works. 8 At all times let your garments be white, and spare not the perfume for your head. 9 Enjoy life with the wife you love, all the days of the vain life granted you under the sun. This is your lot in life, for the toil of your labors under the sun. 10 Anything you can turn your hand to, do with what power you have; for there will be no work, no planning, no knowledge, no wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
Click to expand...
This sounds a bit like, “YOLO - Party it up!” (You Only Live Once…for those without teenagers) 👍 Would the JW support this approach to life? I think not!

Remember also, that when people in the Bible are said to have “fallen asleep” rather than died, this is gentle phenomenological language. It simple describes to the reader how things appear to the reader. It says nothing of what the deceased is experiencing.

Peace
 
admonsta said:
I had a visit from two very nice ladies yesterday, who tried to convince me that as a Catholic, I was severely misguided. I was surprised to find that I could successfully rebut just about all of their arguments. Every time I asked the main speaker to explain an inconsistency, she would move on to the next point. Having the argument actually made me feel much more confident in my beliefs, so it was a good thing that they came calling.

My worry is that she’s coming back. I asked her to explain why there are so many references to Hell in the Bible if they don’t believe in a Hell of eternal punishment. She said she wasn’t aware of any references to Hell, and she’d come back in a few days to give me time to find them.

I’m a bit scared that she’ll bring back reinforcements, and I’ll be hugely out of my depth. I’ve been reading up a bit on JW beliefs, and they confuse me greatly. Their assertions all seem to stem from the idea that the Catholic Bible is in error, and that the translations of the original words mean that the intended meaning is lost. I don’t know how to combat this. The other thing that she threw at me that I couldn’t counter was about the horrible, evil things that have been done by the Catholic Church throughout their entire history.

I asked her about whose authority does she follow, if we are to take everything from the Bible. She agreed with me that many people interpret scripture differently, and we can’t just pray to God and get a clear, definitive answer. But she didn’t answer my question about who then decides on the correct interpretation (thanks John Martignoni for that one).

So, does anyone have any advice on how to speak to these people? I get the feeling they’re not interested in my argument, and they are just trying to win me over, no matter what. I’m not the best apologist (hence my surprise at doing so well this time).
Click to expand...
Go to Catholic Answers homepage and type “Jehovah’s Witnesses” into their search engine. A number of resources - written and audio - will pop up. Make good use of them. Also, check out the website: www.catholicxjw.com. They, too, have a number of good resources.
 
These fellows were also at my door a couple of days ago here. Didn’t know they also started evangelizing people in Spain. 🤷

Anyway, since we live in an apartment building, we have an intercom system to buzz in people (it also has a camera), so we just told them that we weren’t interested, and left it at that. 🙂
 
when I know they are in the area, I lock my outside door (Where they usually try to stick a Watchtower) and do not answer the door. I do the same with Mormons and any other christian door to door person (one time I thought a JW was at my door…did not answer…after he left…looked at what was stuck in my door…little ad for this church that is rumored to have a pastor that PUBLICLY announces people’s sins…I tore the stuff up and threw it in my recycle basket.

I would get that book someone mentioned (Answering Jehovah Witnesses) and also have a friend that’s really good with apologetics if these ladies return. Maybe you can turn them off from returning by coming to the door wearing a crucifix or reciting a rosary. Hang an American Flag at your door (They do not believe in the Flag or ANYTHING patriotic). They could even return tomorrow since they do not believe in the 4th of July, either.
 
The best way to expose these cults is as follows.

First ask them do they obey and follow what Jesus had said and taught?

Then they will say sure provide it is interpreted correctly.

You say very well. Then tell them do they fast?

They will say no.

Then you follow up by saying why don’t you fast because Jesus said that when the bride groom is no longer with you, then you will fast.

So why don’t you obey and follow what Jesus said?

Rest assured they will do the bolt, every time you open this topic.

They sent two beautiful ladies as bait, that is how deception of johovah witnesses operates.

For the three times I used this ploy, they retreated in a hurry on every occasion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top