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dadofeight
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What’s OP?
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Ravyn_Guiliani
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Original Post or Poster depending on how it is used. In this case it means the Original Poster who started the thread and asked for help.
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SassysMum
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I just wanted to thank everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.
Hopefully…they won’t come back. If they do, I’m sure it will be the last time since I now understand most their beliefs. And I have no common ground, at all, with them. Of course, I won’t be personally disrespectful to them or anyone else. I strive to be kind to all.
But I will point out their beliefs are total nonsense from my perspective. And to take me off their list of homes to visit.
On another note…I’m located in the Bible belt. Or I should say ‘the Baptist belt’.
I’m one of **very FEW **Catholic’s in my area. So, I’m constantly defending my faith. I never bring up the topic of religion but it seems everyone else does. At least with the Protestants, we can agree on a few things.
Hopefully…they won’t come back. If they do, I’m sure it will be the last time since I now understand most their beliefs. And I have no common ground, at all, with them. Of course, I won’t be personally disrespectful to them or anyone else. I strive to be kind to all.
But I will point out their beliefs are total nonsense from my perspective. And to take me off their list of homes to visit.On another note…I’m located in the Bible belt. Or I should say ‘the Baptist belt’.
I’m one of **very FEW **Catholic’s in my area. So, I’m constantly defending my faith. I never bring up the topic of religion but it seems everyone else does. At least with the Protestants, we can agree on a few things.
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Catholic90
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Why? The book was given to her, so she now owns it. It belongs to her. She can do with it what she pleases, including writing in ink. There is nothing “rude” about writing in a book you own in ink. She making not of some errors in the book that she owns and then giving it to someone else. The JWs can do with it what they wish, since they would then own it again.
I guess I fail to see what is “rude” and “unChristian” about this.
Please enlighten me!
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Daniel_Marsh
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2 John 10I am Catholic so, I know almost zero about “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and their beliefs. They come by about once a month and drop off their pamphlets. I’m always polite because my* personal* belief is to be kind to all people. Of course, I throw whatever they have given to me in the garbage after they leave. Well this Saturday I was visited by very* persistent* JW’s. I was amazed whenever they told me that JESUS is not God. And there is no such thing as the Trinity. I’m not very good in Apologetics ( but with the grace of the Holy Spirit), I defended my faith with everything in me. They will be back again since they left their book for me to read. And I have highlighted and flagged over half the book, so far. I’m amazed there are people who believe the things in this book.
Please give me advise and any scripture that comes to mind to assist me in this upcoming (and LAST) debate with them. As I previously said…I’m not trained in Apologetics. I want to give them correct church doctrine.
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J_C
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i know how that is, sassy.On another note…I’m located in the Bible belt. Or I should say ‘the Baptist belt’.
i live in an area where most people are Catholic, and there are Catholic parishes all over the place. Awhile back, I was in Norman Oklamhoma. on Sunday I just hopped in my car thinking I’d find a Catholic parish in town. I drove and drove without find a single one. Finally I went over to OU and went to Mass at the Newman Center.
also I have lived in places where evangelicals are the majority. I don’t let my faith be a secret from anyone, so it was a constant debate with several people, but like you say, with the protestants we have a common ground. but with the Jehovahs and some other sects, they start with hidden things and hope to draw you in through emotional appeal; in the Jehovah’s case that of pacifism. In the mormons’ case it might be the heavy emphasis on family.
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AgnosTheist
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no you are not, BUT THEY ARE. and you bet they are pretty experienced about it too. Trust me, you cannot win this one. It will only end badly if you try to confront them at their own game. Just do your best to evade them. Just lock your door and turn off your light. Or just tell them that you have become an atheist. That nothing short of a miracle will make you believe.As I previously said…I’m not trained in Apologetics. I want to give them correct church doctrine.
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justinthemartyr
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Sassysmum,
you may as well forget about discussing doctrinal matters with them, it will do no good.
You should go directly for the topic of authority. Ask them where exactly does scripture state that scripture is the sole authority of God on this earth. they will inevitably point to 2 tim 3:15 and surrounding verses, which has nothing to do with the topic. It says that scripture is 'useful" or “profitable” (same thing) as it applies to the things listed. It never says it is “necessary” and the sole authority.
Go and study the topic of church authority and how scripture shows specifically that christ built a church, one flock, one shepherd, upon peter, and the other apostles are the foundation of this one chrch with christ as chief cornerstone. That this one church had the authority to excommunicate(matth 18_16-20) and to legislate and pronounce punishment to ananias and sapphira in Acts where they were killed by God for deceiving the flock and lying to them and God. That these apostles had successors, called bishops(acts 1:20) kjv
Go and study the facts concerning this authority of the church, the same church that canonized the scriptures, of which the JWs utilize the NT canon decided by the church in 382ad under pope damasus.
Authority is the big topic that goes to the root of the matter with them.
you may as well forget about discussing doctrinal matters with them, it will do no good.
You should go directly for the topic of authority. Ask them where exactly does scripture state that scripture is the sole authority of God on this earth. they will inevitably point to 2 tim 3:15 and surrounding verses, which has nothing to do with the topic. It says that scripture is 'useful" or “profitable” (same thing) as it applies to the things listed. It never says it is “necessary” and the sole authority.
Go and study the topic of church authority and how scripture shows specifically that christ built a church, one flock, one shepherd, upon peter, and the other apostles are the foundation of this one chrch with christ as chief cornerstone. That this one church had the authority to excommunicate(matth 18_16-20) and to legislate and pronounce punishment to ananias and sapphira in Acts where they were killed by God for deceiving the flock and lying to them and God. That these apostles had successors, called bishops(acts 1:20) kjv
Go and study the facts concerning this authority of the church, the same church that canonized the scriptures, of which the JWs utilize the NT canon decided by the church in 382ad under pope damasus.
Authority is the big topic that goes to the root of the matter with them.
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AgnosTheist
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I bet they are familiar with catholic arguments. Unless she is good with these things, it wont work well with her. Just avoid them. Leave it to the experts.
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buc_fan33
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I’ve been engrossed in an ongoing (like 10 month) debate with JWs from my home town. We go back and forth over many topics. Tomorrow, we’re discussing the Eucharist. Please pray for them and for me. Anyway, I don’t have any “formal” training in apologetics, but I was a seminarian at a very orthodox seminary for four years and I have degrees in philosophy and Catholic Studies.
I don’t say that to boast, only to reiterate what others have said. They know their stuff. What makes it worse is that, on some level, it makes sense if you don’t accept that Christ is God. Their comletely misguided view of Christology warps their views on every other branch of theology, from moral theology (no blood transfusions) to eschatology (if Christ isn’t God, why would we be called to spend eternity with Him), to ecclesiology (Jesus is not the eternal bridegroom and His Church is not his bride) to everything else. So, I would caution everyone to adequately prepare in order to converse with these people. I am quite guilty of not doing so in my discussions, and I feel bad that I have not done an adequate job of presenting the faith to them. Whatever you do though, if you come across a point they make that seems to contradict ANYTHING the Catholic Church holds to be true, research what the Church has to say. For example, they make many claims that seem to invalidate the Church’s teachings on the Eucharist. But, when you did into their claims and investigate them beyond just what they selectively quote and also investigate what the Church ACTUALLY teaches, you come to a deeper knowledge and love of the truth.
Also, if you are strong in your faith and know that it will not be a temptation to doubt, or worse still, leave, your faith, then take their literature, all of it. If they give you a copy of Watchtower, it’s one less they are giving to someone who is not so strong in their faith and may fall into the traps inherent in it.
I don’t say that to boast, only to reiterate what others have said. They know their stuff. What makes it worse is that, on some level, it makes sense if you don’t accept that Christ is God. Their comletely misguided view of Christology warps their views on every other branch of theology, from moral theology (no blood transfusions) to eschatology (if Christ isn’t God, why would we be called to spend eternity with Him), to ecclesiology (Jesus is not the eternal bridegroom and His Church is not his bride) to everything else. So, I would caution everyone to adequately prepare in order to converse with these people. I am quite guilty of not doing so in my discussions, and I feel bad that I have not done an adequate job of presenting the faith to them. Whatever you do though, if you come across a point they make that seems to contradict ANYTHING the Catholic Church holds to be true, research what the Church has to say. For example, they make many claims that seem to invalidate the Church’s teachings on the Eucharist. But, when you did into their claims and investigate them beyond just what they selectively quote and also investigate what the Church ACTUALLY teaches, you come to a deeper knowledge and love of the truth.
Also, if you are strong in your faith and know that it will not be a temptation to doubt, or worse still, leave, your faith, then take their literature, all of it. If they give you a copy of Watchtower, it’s one less they are giving to someone who is not so strong in their faith and may fall into the traps inherent in it.
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elt1956
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I think I would thank them for the use of their book, hand it back and tell them you are Catholic and don’t believe as they do. Ask them to leave if they want to get into an argument.I am Catholic so, I know almost zero about “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and their beliefs. They come by about once a month and drop off their pamphlets. I’m always polite because my* personal* belief is to be kind to all people. Of course, I throw whatever they have given to me in the garbage after they leave. Well this Saturday I was visited by very* persistent* JW’s. I was amazed whenever they told me that JESUS is not God. And there is no such thing as the Trinity. I’m not very good in Apologetics ( but with the grace of the Holy Spirit), I defended my faith with everything in me. They will be back again since they left their book for me to read. And I have highlighted and flagged over half the book, so far. I’m amazed there are people who believe the things in this book.
Please give me advise and any scripture that comes to mind to assist me in this upcoming (and LAST) debate with them. As I previously said…I’m not trained in Apologetics. I want to give them correct church doctrine.
Peace.
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Lady_James
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It was actually the persistent JW’s that helped me to come back to the RCC. I allowed them to come in and read the Bible with me and to explain scripture, but we used my Bible , not theirs and they said the only difference was that theirs said Jehovah, and they showed me where it said God’s name. But I told them they could come and give me Bible study, only with MY Bible and they accepted that and came every week, it stopped when I moved and then I came home to the RCC. They said that the Holy Trinity was not real and I said it was and I found myself being defensive of a faith I had lapsed away from - so thank you to the JW’s.
Incidentally my new friend at work is a JW, which is what brings me here - I need to get some facts. She’s not trying to convert me, but we do challenge each other with “Where does it say…?” questions.
:harp:
Incidentally my new friend at work is a JW, which is what brings me here - I need to get some facts. She’s not trying to convert me, but we do challenge each other with “Where does it say…?” questions.
:harp:
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RLT
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ricko
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Take all the material from them you can get. Check all the links and read all you can about them, then read all the material they gave you. Do your homework and prepare to do battle! This is a good chance for you to learn about your own Catholic faith and to defend it. They are tough cookies to crack for sure. After much research I finally found in their bible where a man fell down and worshipped Jesus, he never came back. They are well known for predicting the end of the world about 6 times, study that and hit them with it. Here’s a good one, they believe Satan was in heaven until 1914 at which time he was thrown down to earth. Ask them to show in the bible where it states that. Study and prepare and remember that they are well trained but not unbeatable!
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Cathdefender
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I would just say “Where does it have the words Jehovah’s Witness in the bible”? And “Why would Christ wait 2,000 years to call you that now?” They came to my house once and I just said you are talking to the wrong person here, and they left. They are just annoying, brainwashed and headstrong. Don’t open the door.I am Catholic so, I know almost zero about “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and their beliefs. They come by about once a month and drop off their pamphlets. I’m always polite because my* personal* belief is to be kind to all people. Of course, I throw whatever they have given to me in the garbage after they leave. Well this Saturday I was visited by very* persistent* JW’s. I was amazed whenever they told me that JESUS is not God. And there is no such thing as the Trinity. I’m not very good in Apologetics ( but with the grace of the Holy Spirit), I defended my faith with everything in me. They will be back again since they left their book for me to read. And I have highlighted and flagged over half the book, so far. I’m amazed there are people who believe the things in this book.
Please give me advise and any scripture that comes to mind to assist me in this upcoming (and LAST) debate with them. As I previously said…I’m not trained in Apologetics. I want to give them correct church doctrine.
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IAM101
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They are crazy SOBs. They think the world is going to blow up!
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Enoch365
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I have great idea for you. Next time when they come to your door, why don’t give this article to them.
The Heresy Of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Jehovah’s Witnesses are a group which appeared in the second half of the nineteenth century. Their founder, Charles Russell, was born in 1854 in Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Russell was a Christian, but was influenced in his youth by Arian and Seventh-Day Adventist teaching, as well as the ideas of some atheists. From amongst all this mixture, he formed his doctrine around the year 1872 and published it in the United States of America. He was able to collect a fortune worth approximately five million dollars, which he used for industrial and commercial projects…
http://www.copticchurch.org/English_spiritual_articles/Jehovah’s%20Witnesses.htm
The Heresy Of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Jehovah’s Witnesses are a group which appeared in the second half of the nineteenth century. Their founder, Charles Russell, was born in 1854 in Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Russell was a Christian, but was influenced in his youth by Arian and Seventh-Day Adventist teaching, as well as the ideas of some atheists. From amongst all this mixture, he formed his doctrine around the year 1872 and published it in the United States of America. He was able to collect a fortune worth approximately five million dollars, which he used for industrial and commercial projects…
http://www.copticchurch.org/English_spiritual_articles/Jehovah’s%20Witnesses.htm
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