Jehovah's Witnesses No Longer Participating In the Work of a Bible Society

[Emeth]

I never said that the Witnesses closed all their printing facilities down. But I have stated that the ones associated with the Watchtower Bible Society are now closed.

My point is that Jehovah’s Witnesses have stopped doing the work of a Bible society. (Please re-read the title of this thread.)

As can be seen from your own post, you agree. You say: “Our goal is** not** to spread bibles.”

The charter of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, written by Charles Taze Russell himself states that the society’s purpose was not only the printing and distributing of Bible literature but “teaching the Bible by means of the publication and distribution of Bibles.”-- J. F. Rutherford, A Great Battle in the Ecclesiastical Heavens, 1915, p. 14, italics added.

Your words, “our goal is not to spread bibles” compared to the charter’s words of existing for the purpose of the “distribution of Bibles” proves my point.

Again this is not true! All printing plants are owned by the Watchtower bible and tract society. The one in Wallkill is much bigger than we ever had in Brooklyn.

Some printing of Awake! and The Watchtower began at Wallkill in 1973,[5] and by 2004 their entire United States printing operation was shifted from Brooklyn to an expanded Wallkill printery.[6] The Watchtower printery at Wallkill is considered an example in automated printing, binding, and packaging.[7][8][9] Aside from those run for the federal government, Watchtower’s Wallkill plant is the largest in-plant printing operation[10][11] in the United States.

source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallkill,_Ulster_County,_New_York

When i said our goal is not to spread bibles i mean to say that our main goal is and was bible education. So giving out bibles to people without follow up visits and educating them is not our goal and it never was.

However **we print more bibles in many more languages than ever before in history.
**

About the Society Russell started i can tell you the following. The organization was formed** in 1881 as Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society for the purpose of distributing religious tracts. ** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Bible_and_Tract_Society_of_Pennsylvania

When the society was started they did not start to produce bibles but tracts and the magazine the Watchtower.

Also the quote you showed from the charter is not complete. In its charter, written by Russell, the society’s purpose was stated as** “the mental, moral and religious improvement of men and women, by teaching the Bible by means of the publication and distribution of Bibles, books, papers, pamphlets and other Bible literature, and by providing oral lectures free for the people”**

We never had the same goals as for example the American Bible Society. The Watchtower bible and Tract Society is just our legal entity, it prints our literature, dvd’s , cd-roms, make our movies , it take care of our website etc etc. Its the legal entity we use for our religion. Its not like any other publishing company.

Our goal is and was always the same. We only started with the carts and stands two years ago as an extra service but maintain our normal preaching work from door to door on a daily basis. The ‘Bible Rule’ is only applied for the new carts project simply because at the carts we dont speak with people unless they approach us with questions. People can pick and choose anything they like for free. Its pure for financial reasons that we dont put the bibles on the carts since we give all stuff away for free.

Try to find a bible society and publishing house or any other company that also give everything they produce free of charge. Since we want to continue our work for years, and decades to come we keep an eye on what we hand out and to whom.

 

[Emeth]

Emeth,

Welcome, hope you stay in the forum. Question that I have for you is how do you know that the books in your bible are all inspired and inerrant? The bible does not come with a listing of what books should be in it, so how do you know, how do you trust that the books in your bible are all the Word of God?

PnP

The O.T canon was already established at the time of Jesus.

There are many historical facts that convince us of the validity of the New Testament Canon. The real test of canonicity, however, is for example, not how many times or by what nonapostolic writer a certain book has been quoted.

The contents of the book itself must give evidence that it is a product of holy spirit. Consequently, it cannot contain superstitions or demonism, nor can it encourage creature worship. It must be in total harmony and complete unity with the rest of the Bible, thus supporting the authorship of Jehovah God. Each book must conform to the divine “pattern of healthful words” and be in harmony with the teachings and activities of Christ Jesus. (2Ti 1:13; 1Co 4:17) The apostles clearly had divine accreditation and they spoke in attestation of such other writers as Luke and James, the half brother of Jesus. By holy spirit the apostles had “discernment of inspired utterances” as to whether such were of God or not. (1Co 12:4,*10) With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end, and so with the Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his epistles, the Bible canon closed.

The 66 canonical books of our Bible in their harmonious unity and balance testify to the oneness and completeness of the Bible and recommend it to us as indeed Jehovah’s Word of inspired truth, preserved until now against all its enemies. (1Pe 1:25)

 

[adf417]

**When i said our goal is not to spread bibles i mean to say that our main goal is and was bible education. So giving out bibles to people without follow up visits and educating them is not our goal and it never was.

However **we print more bibles in many more languages than ever before in history.

---

About the Society Russell started i can tell you the following. The organization was formed** in 1881 as Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society for the purpose of distributing religious tracts. ** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Bible_and_Tract_Society_of_Pennsylvania

Greetings Emeth, Why is “bible education” so important? Why does one need someone else to help them understand the bible? Why does the Watchtower publish a book called “What does the bible really teach”? Is the bible itself not enough?

…fast forward…

How did the 2nd and 3rd century Christians accomplish this form of evangelization without a bible? Can you name some early Christians who would have been the ones perpetrating the truth at this time or for that matter, prior to 1881 or prior to Henry Grew and George Storrs if in fact you consider them to be of the truth?

Peace be with you!!!

 

[Miriam1947]

As of January 2014 this Revised New World Translations will be used at the Watchtower Study (in english speaking territories) so you can be sure that all witnesses have one by now.

The expectation is that this new Revised World Translation will be released in more languages in the next few years.

John 1:1-5
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[a] 2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life,** and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness,[c] and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:1-51
Revised New World Translation

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.+ 5 And the light is shining in the darkness,+ but the darkness has not overpowered it.

According to your Bible Jesus is not God but a god. So how many gods do you think there are?**

 

[Emeth]

According to your Bible Jesus is not God but a god. So how many gods do you think there are?

Dear Miriam,

I am not here to discuss the bible or doctrines. I just came across this thread on google and thought i had to set some things straight concerning our printing plants, our society and what we do.

In answer to your question i can tell you this,… according to every bible there are many gods but only one God Almighty.

But again i am not here to discuss doctrines. Kindest regards from the netherlands, Emeth

 

[Emeth]

Greetings Emeth, Why is “bible education” so important? Why does one need someone else to help them understand the bible? Why does the Watchtower publish a book called “What does the bible really teach”? Is the bible itself not enough?

…fast forward…

How did the 2nd and 3rd century Christians accomplish this form of evangelization without a bible? Can you name some early Christians who would have been the ones perpetrating the truth at this time or for that matter, prior to 1881 or prior to Henry Grew and George Storrs if in fact you consider them to be of the truth?

Peace be with you!!!

we believe that during the centuries false teachings arose. That is why we print bible literature and bibles to educate people and direct them back to the bible teachings instead to certain human doctrines and teachings that are not bible based.

Finding the truth is an ongoing process. And during all centuries sincere people were looking for the truth and found pieces of truth. Did Russell, Grew and Storrs have full knowledge of the truth? No they did not. Gathering accurate knowledge of the scriptures and its meaning is an ongoing process that is still going on.

The first christians used the hewrew scriptures (old testament) as their bible and in time more books and letters were added (the new testament) to that collection of books.

Kindest regards, emeth

 

[yellowbird]

Emeth,

Greetings! I am curious, how many of the anointed are left on Earth?

 

[Porknpie]

The O.T canon was already established at the time of Jesus.

Emeth, this is not true. The Jews at the time of Jesus did have an agreed to canon. The Sadducees, Pharisees and Essenes all had different understandings as to what was “scripture”. Catholics from the beginning included the deuterocanonical books as they were part of the septuagint and we know the apostles used the septuagint. This is consistent with the Greek speaking Jews, of whom there was a greater number than those in Jerusalem. To exclude the deuterocanonical books is to side with the pharisees.

There are many historical facts that convince us of the validity of the New Testament Canon.

The historical fact is that you give tacit approval that the Catholic Church was right and discerned the 27 books of the NT out of several hundred writings at the time as well as 46 books of the OT. The Catholic Church made this determination, led to all Truth by the Holy Spirit starting in 382ad at the Council of Rome, affirmed later in 393 and 397 at the Synods of Hippo and Carthage and again at the Council’s of Florence and Trent. Words from the Council of Rome below as to what was scripture.

“Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paralipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book, Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Philippians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle.” Pope Damasus (regn. A.D. 366-384), Decree of the Council of Rome, The Canon of Scripture (A.D. 382).

Emeth, your bible is a Catholic book, written by, for and about the Catholic Church. The Church discerned what was scripture based in part on the apostolic roots of each text (by an apostles or by someone who was close to the apostles) and whether Catholic Churches were using the writings in the liturgy, the Mass. Who is best to know what is scripture? The Council of Rome, basing what was scripture on what the apostles used OR someone nearly 1,600 years later that thinks differently?

PnP

 

[Emeth]

Emeth, this is not true.

The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was traditionally divided into three sections: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings, or Hagiographa, contained in 24 books, as shown in the chart. By further combining Ruth with Judges, and Lamentations with Jeremiah, some Jewish authorities counted 22, the same as the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet. In his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings, Jerome, though seeming to favor counting 22, said: “Some would include both Ruth and Lamentations among the Hagiographa ... and thus would get twenty-four books.”

The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion (I, 38-40 [8]) around the year 100C.E., confirms that by then the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures had been fixed for a long time. He wrote: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver.... From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”

Canonicity of a book therefore does not rest in whole or in part on whether some council, committee, or community accepts or rejects it. The voice of such noninspired men is valuable only as witness to what God himself has already done through his accredited representatives. The same goes for the NT.

The exact number of books in the Hebrew Scriptures is not important (whether a certain two are combined or left separated), nor is the particular order in which they follow one another, since the books remained as separate rolls long after the canon was closed. Ancient catalogs vary in the order the books are listed, as, for example, one listing places Isaiah after the book of Ezekiel. What is most important, however, is what books are included. In reality, only those books now in the canon have any solid claim for canonicity. From ancient times efforts to include other writings have been resisted. Two Jewish councils held at Yavne or Jamnia, a little S of Joppa, about 90 and 118*C.E. respectively, when discussing the Hebrew Scriptures, expressly excluded all Apocryphal writings.

Josephus bears witness to this general Jewish opinion of the Apocryphal writings when he says: “From Artaxerxes to our own time the complete history has been written, but has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records, because of the failure of the exact succession of the prophets. We have given practical proof of our reverence for our own Scriptures. For, although such long ages have now passed, no one has ventured either to add, or to remove, or to alter a syllable; and it is an instinct with every Jew, from the day of his birth, to regard them as the decrees of God, to abide by them, and, if need be, cheerfully to die for them.”—Against Apion, I, 41-43 (8).
This long historical position of the Jews toward the Hebrew Scripture canon is very important, in view of what Paul wrote to the Romans. The Jews, the apostle says, “were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God,” which included writing and protecting the Bible canon.—Ro 3:1,*2.

 

[Emeth]

Emeth,

Greetings! I am curious, how many of the anointed are left on Earth?

No one knows but God

 

[adf417]

we believe that during the centuries false teachings arose. That is why we print bible literature and bibles to educate people and direct them back to the bible teachings instead to certain human doctrines and teachings that are not bible based.

Finding the truth is an ongoing process. And during all centuries sincere people were looking for the truth and found pieces of truth. Did Russell, Grew and Storrs have full knowledge of the truth? No they did not. Gathering accurate knowledge of the scriptures and its meaning is an ongoing process that is still going on.

The first christians used the hewrew scriptures (old testament) as their bible and in time more books and letters were added (the new testament) to that collection of books.

Kindest regards, emeth

But you do agree Russell, Grew, & Storrs did have some truth right? My question is who before them had this truth? and who before him and before him…? There must be someone who was perpetuating the truth prior to these men. Isn’t it true that Henry Grew was a Baptist preacher before he began preaching JW doctrines? Wouldn’t he had to have been of Trinitarian belief at the time? Who would have taught him the non-Trinitarian belief in the way JWs teach today?

Peace!!!

 

[yellowbird]

No one knows but God

I just looked it up - in 2012 it was over 12,000 - the number has increased steadily since 2007. Isn’t that strange? It makes no sense because the anointed were chosen prior to 1935 - the numbers should be rapidly declining - not climbing.

Also - the generation aware of the events of 1914 that you said would not pass away have passed away. How does the WBTS recover from such a massive failed prophecy?

 

[DelsonJacobs]

I am not here to discuss the bible or doctrines. I just came across this thread on google and thought i had to set some things straight concerning our printing plants, our society and what we do.

I used to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I left to become a Catholic. Doesn’t that make me an apostate according to your teachings? What are you doing reading and refuting my arguments and adding your comments to what I say?

The Watchtower of July 15, 2011 states that Witnesses who are faithful to Jehovah do not examine information of or engage in conversations with “false teachers.”

What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs.

And The Watchtower of February 15, 2004 adds:

It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments.

How are we to believe what you are telling us if you are not faithful to your own teachings? Perhaps you are unaware of these directions in the Watchtower? That I can understand. But perhaps just as you are unaware of these instructions you are also unaware of other things happening in your religion?

I do not question your personal resolve as a Witness. I understand you believe what you do with your whole heart. But how do you explain openly and publicly violating the directions from the Faithful and Discreet Slave by trying to refute what I’ve reported here (which by the way does not claim that all your printing work has ended, just the work of a true Bible society)? Your weren’t supposed to read let alone comment, according to the instruction from the Watchtower.

Doesn’t it bring into question all the Witnesses teach when they themselves don’t follow the religion they tell us that we should? “The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.”–Luke 16:10, NWT 2013 version.

 

[Winston_Smith]

The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was traditionally divided into three sections: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings, or Hagiographa, contained in 24 books, as shown in the chart. By further combining Ruth with Judges, and Lamentations with Jeremiah, some Jewish authorities counted 22, the same as the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet. In his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings, Jerome, though seeming to favor counting 22, said: “Some would include both Ruth and Lamentations among the Hagiographa ... and thus would get twenty-four books.”

The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion (I, 38-40 [8]) around the year 100C.E., confirms that by then the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures had been fixed for a long time. He wrote: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver.... From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”

Canonicity of a book therefore does not rest in whole or in part on whether some council, committee, or community accepts or rejects it. The voice of such noninspired men is valuable only as witness to what God himself has already done through his accredited representatives. The same goes for the NT.

The exact number of books in the Hebrew Scriptures is not important (whether a certain two are combined or left separated), nor is the particular order in which they follow one another, since the books remained as separate rolls long after the canon was closed. Ancient catalogs vary in the order the books are listed, as, for example, one listing places Isaiah after the book of Ezekiel. What is most important, however, is what books are included. In reality, only those books now in the canon have any solid claim for canonicity. From ancient times efforts to include other writings have been resisted. Two Jewish councils held at Yavne or Jamnia, a little S of Joppa, about 90 and 118*C.E. respectively, when discussing the Hebrew Scriptures, expressly excluded all Apocryphal writings.

Josephus bears witness to this general Jewish opinion of the Apocryphal writings when he says: “From Artaxerxes to our own time the complete history has been written, but has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records, because of the failure of the exact succession of the prophets. We have given practical proof of our reverence for our own Scriptures. For, although such long ages have now passed, no one has ventured either to add, or to remove, or to alter a syllable; and it is an instinct with every Jew, from the day of his birth, to regard them as the decrees of God, to abide by them, and, if need be, cheerfully to die for them.”—Against Apion, I, 41-43 (8).
This long historical position of the Jews toward the Hebrew Scripture canon is very important, in view of what Paul wrote to the Romans. The Jews, the apostle says, “were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God,” which included writing and protecting the Bible canon.—Ro 3:1,*2.

Greetings Emeth, I hope you enjoy the forum and continue reading and posting. There is something I need to mention, however, in the spirit of being helpful. The information quoted above is almost verbatim from the Watchtower Online Library, Insight Volume 1, the article on Canon. Please be aware that some have gotten in to trouble with the Watchtower legal department by copying and pasting information, especially when not citing the source material. Also, please note the Terms of Use for the Online Library, which says in part, “By downloading such materials from this site, visitors agree not to post these materials on the Internet or on any other electronic network.” So please be careful, and again, welcome to this interesting forum.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

At the expense of this thread going in the wrong direction and becoming more of an occasion of sin for Emeth, I would like to add one more thing to this thread before personally moving on:

There seems to be confusion even in the minds of the Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding their preaching work, religion, and printing plants with the work of a Bible society, which the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has engaged in fully up to now.

My comments have never mentioned that the Witnesses are no longer preaching their religion, closing all their printing facilities, or are stifled in growth.

My comments about the closing of the offices of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society are limited to that corporate body, and my comments are about a work which did things very differently when I was a full-time pioneer and elder under the presidency of Frederick Franz. We would have never thought of limiting our offering of the Word of God in those days, and the thought of not presenting it front and center with our publications would have been considered the mark of apostasy—back some 20-plus years ago.

The upcoming February 2014 issue of Our Kingdom Ministry has yet to get into the hands of each and every Witness in the United States. I got this information ahead of the general public from an inside source. Things are to change, but in some areas Witnesses will be slow to incorporate or recognize the differences mentioned here. This is only the beginning of much more to come, I am afraid.

While I don’t regret sharing this information, and while I strongly condemn the Witnesses for their anti-Catholic and antisemitic doctrines and practices, I don’t hate these people. And I think they should be allowed time for this directive to take effect before broaching the subject again. I myself feel the need to take a step back less I let anger dictate my responses. I suffered much physical and emotional abuse at the hands of other elders who later admitted to and were removed for harboring a personal grudge against me due to jealousy.

In the meantime some of the Witnesses and others may need to do research about Mary Jones and how this little girl inspired the invention of all Bible societies—including the Watchtower. This may make it a lot clearer to understand what I mean when I say the work of a Bible society is dying in the world of the Watchtower.

I also ask that we should also move discussion about Jehovah’s Witness beliefs independent from the subject of their Bible society to another thread that we do not violate the rules of this forum.

 

[Emeth]

I just looked it up - in 2012 it was over 12,000 - the number has increased steadily since 2007. Isn’t that strange? It makes no sense because the anointed were chosen prior to 1935 - the numbers should be rapidly declining - not climbing.

Also - the generation aware of the events of 1914 that you said would not pass away have passed away. How does the WBTS recover from such a massive failed prophecy?

You did not understand my answer. I said only God knows how many annointed people there are. We teach that , although we publish the number of partakers, we dont know who is a genuine annointed one. Only God knows. Anyone could decide to partake. Also you are not up to date with our teachings on 1935 and the 1914 generation. Besides that there is no failed prophecy since it was not a prophecy but just an interpretation of a written down inspired biblical prophecy.

So did we adjust our understanding of certain matters and prophecies? Certainly we did.

But again, i was not here to discuss doctrine. have a nice day

 

[Emeth]

I used to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I left to become a Catholic. Doesn’t that make me an apostate according to your teachings? What are you doing reading and refuting my arguments and adding your comments to what I say?

Is this you trying to silence me while you want me to stop exposing the nonsense you were spreading about our publishing arm and worldwide work?

truth stands clear from error and on this matter i was talking truth , while you were not. Have a nice day

 

[Porknpie]

You did not understand my answer. I said only God knows how many annointed people there are. We teach that , although we publish the number of partakers, we dont know who is a genuine annointed one. Only God knows. Anyone could decide to partake. Also you are not up to date with our teachings on 1935 and the 1914 generation. Besides that there is no failed prophecy since it was not a prophecy but just an interpretation of a written down inspired biblical prophecy.

So did we adjust our understanding of certain matters and prophecies? Certainly we did.

But again, i was not here to discuss doctrine. have a nice day

Emeth,

God calls all to salvation and has a place in heaven for everyone, not just 144,000. The Book of Revelation states that in heaven are the “great multitude” of which one can not count. This is in addition to the 144,000 which is a symbolic number, the number of tribes squared times 100.

RSVCE
9 After this I looked, and behold,** a great multitude which no man could number, **from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen.”

NWT
9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne,+ and to the Lamb.”+
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and the elders+ and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshipped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Let the praise and the glory and the wisdom and the thanksgiving and the honor and the power and the strength be to our God forever and ever.+ Amen.”

We were created to see God face to face … But when?

Psalm 42
42 [a]As a hart longs
for flowing streams,
so longs my soul
2 My soul thirsts for God,
for the living God.
When shall I come and behold
the face of God?

The when is in heaven as Revelation states.

Revelation 22
3 There shall no more be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him; 4 they shall see his face, and his name shall be on their foreheads. 5 And night shall be no more; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they shall reign for ever and ever., and his servants shall worship him;

 

[Cricket2]

Delson,

No they should not teach falsehoods and this is one of the reasons I can’t accept this belief system. Their ideas about Catholics are totally erroneous. I actually view this group as more of a cult than a religion. I think there is a lot of human ideas in their beliefs that have nothing to do with God.

 

[Porknpie]

Emeth,

God calls all to salvation and has a place in heaven for everyone, not just 144,000. The Book of Revelation states that in heaven are the “great multitude” of which one can not count. This is in addition to the 144,000 which is a symbolic number, the number of tribes squared times 100.]

Oops. Times 1000 not 100.