Dave, does this make sense to you? The child is Christ. Would the Church, or God’s “organization”, give birth to Christ?? What came first and who started what? Christ came to earth and started his Church, so how could this woman be the Church if she is the one giving birth to Christ?
To the woman he said,
We know Jesus is just. We know that the one who is sinless is just. If Mary was sinless she was as just as God.
Sorry
He will be hard pressed to fine one.
Jeanne
So? She brought Him tot he world. That doesn’t mean ‘created Him’. The Church could have easily given birth to Him. But that doesn’t suggest Christ’s life begins there.
I see no proof of Mary’s role as our mother.
Again, what verses in Scripture tell you that Jesus had to be born of a sinner in order to be our brother? Chapter and verse, please!
Like all Marian teachings, they point to the utter and supreme Divinity of Christ. If you deny that Mary was sinless, you deny that Christ, the 2nd Person of the Trinity, was God.
Because she was the dwelling place of God the Word!
There are many sinless individuals who suffer the consequences of sin. Take a child with Down syndrome–what sin can she commit? Yet she will bear many sufferings in this world.
To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
~Genesis 3:16
This happened to Eve because she sinned, by transgressing God’s Law, God’s commandment: ‘thou shall not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil’.
If that woman is Mary then she suffered for her sins, just like Christ suffered for our sins.
Unless you suggest she endured our sins with Him … which would be blasphemy. Because if she was sinless and she suffered the consequences of sin … then you say that she didn’t suffer her sins but other people’s sins, in that case ours. And that would make her a co-savior with Christ, because she suffered our sins with Him. And, as I said, that is blasphemy.
So that woman is Mary, proving that she has sin, or that she is not Mary but the Church since the Church did sin.
We know Jesus is just. We know that the one who is sinless is just. If Mary was sinless she was as just as God.
Jesus is called our brother. Now would it be just for Him to have His ‘sinless mommy’ while we just have to get used to our sinful mothers.
And why was she even supposed to be sinless? What’s the big deal if she had sin?
So? She brought Him tot he world. That doesn’t mean ‘created Him’. The Church could have easily given birth to Him. But that doesn’t suggest Christ’s life begins there.
This is a poor explaination I’m afraid. What does a mother do for nine months while carrying a child, my friend? It takes two! Otherwise, why even bother with planting the seed in Mary’s womb?? I wonder how this would go over with my wife if I used this exegesis when she carried our child…Christ existed before the earth was, so I don’t see how this is possible.
I see no proof of Mary’s role as our mother.
Other than the Early Church Fathers writings? Why should we listen to your words rather than those that were closer to the source?
But I see it differently. This just proves Jesus’ love for her. If He, being on the cross, could make such an effort just to make sure she would be safe, how much would He do to us when He called us ‘His mother,brother and sister’ and has all power over everything in the heavens and on the earth?
So if He did that when He didn’t have ‘all power’ (didn’t ascend/resurrect) and when HE was humiliated on the cross how much can He help us and take care of us when He is in Heaven having all power and when He called us His mother(s)?
So this doesn’t prove that Mary is our mother, but Jesus’ love for us Christians: Jesus’ mothers, brothers and sisters.
So why would he tell Mary, “Behold, your son.” The explaination of the early Church makes so much more sense rather than jumping through hoops to avoid taking the CC’s stance. That’s okay, I used to do the same thing until I opened my mind and heart.
How so?
And now God dwells within us since we are His temple. Does that make us sinless and perfect?Because she was the dwelling place of God the Word!
Because she was the dwelling place of the Word of God.
Maybe because you, as a Protestant, do not have the physical presence of Christ in you as we Catholics do. While you can carry Him in your thoughts, in your mind, in your actions, in the written Word, alas, you are not privileged to bear Him physically as we Catholics do.
So you Catholic are sinless, huh?Maybe because you, as a Protestant, do not have the physical presence of Christ in you as we Catholics do. While you can carry Him in your thoughts, in your mind, in your actions, in the written Word, alas, you are not privileged to bear Him physically as we Catholics do.
But, yes, when we are privileged to become temples of the Word Made Flesh in the Eucharist, we ought to be sinless. Otherwise we are guilty of the body and blood of Jesus.
That’s because we have the benefit of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Now, Cristian, I know you are aware of that. So this seems like a peculiar question to me.
I was referring to the Eucharist. You just said that Mary was sinless because she had Jesus’ body inside her. According to your church’s teachings, the bread and wine transform into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, something called ‘transubstantiation’. Now since you have His body and blood withing you, just like Mary, you have to be sinless to be able to. But not sinless in the sense that you have your sins forgiven, but that you have no sin at all, just like you claim about Mary. I believe there is a contradiction between the church’s teachings here.That’s because we have the benefit of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Now, Cristian, I know you are aware of that. So this seems like a peculiar question to me.
She was not sinless because she had Jesus’ body inside her–that is, Jesus’ body inside her did not transform her into a pure vessel. She was already pure beforehand–ya know, the Immaculate Conception and all that!
To be able to what?
Again, we are sinless because we have the benefit of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. (Not to mention because of the Penitentiary Rite that is prayed at every Mass.)
She was, according to you, before hand to be able to bear the body of Christ. According to you, do you also have to be completely sinless in order to take the Eucharist?She was not sinless because she had Jesus’ body inside her–that is, Jesus’ body inside her did not transform her into a pure vessel. She was already pure beforehand–ya know, the Immaculate Conception and all that!
No, actually. Why would He? He chose to come into a deteriorated body affected by sin. If He chose to do that, can’t He chose to come trough a sinner?
