She was forgiven of Original Sin-- yes!!–before she actually contracted it, and was therefore able to receive, fully, God’s sanctifying grace, while still retaining her Free Will to sin.
I see.
Because of Adam’s sin we are all deprived of sanctifying grace. We inherited from Adam and Eve not the sin but the* consequence* of their sin.
If we are not guilty of it, then we don’t have their sin. If my father committed adultery (he didn’t, I’m making this up) and got AIDS, and then he had me and I have AIDS, God doesn’t have to forgive me for his sin. And do not share his guilt. And the consequences are the consequences. Only if I’d get born again of a different person a could escape the consequences …
And I can say that you already know what’s in my mind. We escape the consequences of Adam and Eve’s sin by being born again not of a man, but of God. Like in the example cited previously. You could escape the consequences of AIDS by being born again of a different being. Spiritually, this happens when we are born again of God. We are born again by abandoning our sinful desires and looking after the things in Heaven.
In order for Mary to escape this ‘consequences’ of Adam’s sin, she’d have to be born of God directly. Because all born of woman carry this consequences. Christ didn’t have them because He was born of flesh (Mary) but of spirit (Holy Spirit) as well. So He received the flesh’s weakness but the Spirit’s power to overcome it as well. So He was sinless because He was born of the Spirit directly, and not of man only, like us. To make this claim you make about Mary true, then you’d have to also admit that she was born of a virgin, like Jesus, and of the Spirit, exactly like Jesus. Finally admitting that she was born of God from the beginning, like Jesus! We know this is not true. Mary was not born of a virgin. Since Mary was born of flesh (human mother and father) she wasn’t born of the Spirit from the beginning, like Jesus. But, in order to escape the consequences of Adam’s sin, you have to be born of Spirit. She was born of the Spirit, but not in the beginning, like you claim. You claim she was always without the consequences of Adam’s sin. But for this to be true she’d have to be born of the Spirit and of the flesh at the same time. But she wasn’t born of the Spirit from her mother’s womb, for she was born of a human mother and father, and not of a human mother and the Holy Spirit, right from the beginning. Only Jesus was born of the Father from … always.
Your soul is pure, then? Clean and inviolate enough to see Divinity face to face?
Yes. My character can be improved though, but if my sins are forgiven, why not?
I don’t know why you’re not sinless–you ought to be, because of the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Mass–but since you’re not receiving those benefits, you are indeed defiling the Temple of the Holy Spirit with each and every sin you commit.
And so are you.
But we are not sinless, but guiltless! There is a big difference. If you are sinless, you are like Jesus, without committing
any sin in your
whole life. Are you like Him in this aspect? The answer is a resounding
NO. But am I guiltless? That is another question. Yes. This doesn’t mean I’m sinless, but it means that all my sins have been paid. That means that the Law cannot accuse me of these sins since they are paid, and from a certain point of view forgiven. So I am guiltless because the Law cannot accuse me of my sins because they have been paid with the blood of Jesus. But am I sinless? No. I still have sins but the Law cannot accuse me regarding them since they are paid. We are guiltless, not sinless. You say Mary is sinless.
Chapter and verse, please for the verses that say someone touched Mary.
I don’t need that. I can prove it to you logically.
Why do you think the ark had any value at all? I was a piece of wood, as far as I know. It was valuable because of the Tables of stone (the Ten Commandments) that were inside. If the ark couldn’t be touched, how less touched could be the tables of the law themselves? What is more sacred? The ark or what is inside it?
If Jesus was the one inside, and He could be touched for the disciples said:
“Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?” A lot of people touched what is inside the ark. Why wouldn’t they touch the ark? If they didn’t die from touching the most sacred things, which is what is inside the ark, I supposed they didn’t die for touching the less sacred part, which is the ark.
Otherwise, you’re holding
another man-made tradition! (How many are we up to in our dialogue already?
)
I’m the one holding to man-made traditions? You claim something God never pronounced directly or indirectly… and you say we are making man-made traditions.
Now, you didn’t give any proof that she
wasn’t touched. Christ could be touched. Why wouldn’t she? Besides, your are not going to tell me Joseph
never had
any physical contact with Mary, are you? You are not going to tell me Elizabeth
never had
any physical contact with Mary, are you? There ideas are quite ridiculous.
What? Maturing is a sign of a deteriorating body? Chapter and verse for that, too, please!
No. Getting old is a sign of deteriorating body. Jesus bore our sins and their consequences. You agree, don’t you?
She never touched Joseph. She never touched Elizabeth, and she lived with her for months.
