Jeremiah 43 unfulfilled?

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In Jeremiah 43, it is predicted that the Babylonians would conquer Egypt, when in fact they never did. Critics point to this as a failed prophecy. How do we answer?
 
Ugh, I really need help here… My faith is really being challenged right now…
 
I’m not sure it specifically speaks of conquering in the sense of occupying a territory. Babylon smashed the power of Egypt and Assyria at Carchemish. Assyria was no longer an independent power, and Egypt no longer a significant force in the Mid East. There is some suggestion, apparently, that Nebuchadnezzar did do some campaigning in Egypt from 568 - 567 BC, even if it was not total devastation, though it probably didn’t help during the later invasion by Persia. Judgment was still brought upon Egypt.
 
Is there any other way to interpret this chapter perhaps? I’ve been arguing with an atheist all day and he keeps bringing up these things as failed prophecy’s.
 
If I was an atheist, I wouldn’t view it as a failed prophecy, I’d view it as a book written after the fact in which the author was alluding to what was then already historical events, which are likely the events just referenced, which kind of undermines the atheist’s point. So I don’t really agree with where the atheist is coming from after putting myself into his shoes.

Doom and gloom judgment prophecies in the Bible do tend to use rather over-the-top depictions, often stars falling from the sky and what not. I wouldn’t take these as falseties or failings, however, but as just fitting into the prophetic genre.

Babylon undermined Egypt as a regional power. There is some historical evidence that Babylon actually did conduct campaigns into Egypt, too, though nothing concrete, but that’s not just a religious assessment. And it’s not like we have a perfect historical record, either. I feel like the atheist is taken a very fundamentalist approach to the text.

Maybe I’m wrong in my approach, though.
 
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What about Ezekiel’s 40 year prophecy, that Egyptians would also face an exile, and come back after 40 years. Yet, that never happened…
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Ugh, I really need help here… My faith is really being challenged right now…
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is there a catholic bible study near you? The Old Testament needs to be read through a few lenses, one is cultural, one given what was going on at the time, or had been going on historically. It’s a mistake to take a fundamentalist view and take the Old Testament literally, or orphan passages. Each passage has a relationship with its immediate neighbours. It then has a relationship with the book it’s in. Each book has a few specific messages or lessons. The book then needs to be read in context of the Bible itself, namely sacred scripture, the Word of God, in human language, of what God wants us to know, what God reveals to us for our salvation. The Old Testament is also God’s preparing those peoples, and us , for the incarnation of Jesus Christ, His Son.

Therefore
thephilosopher6 said:
Jeremiah 43
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Jeremiah is one of our greatest Prophets. What is this book about?
thephilosopher6 said:
Ezekiel’s 40
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Ezekiel , also a great Prophet.

For a bit of context,
God had, with His chosen people, made several Covenants during Old Testament times. As we know God keeps His end of the Covenant agreement. Always.
We humans have trouble doing so. The Old Testament is full of the struggles of our ancestors in keeping, trying to keep, or failing to keep, or totally disregarding the covenants they agreed on with God.

Much of the later Old Testament , especially the Prophets, especially after God saw what King Solomon was up to, and took away what He had invested on King Solomon,

Sees sacred scripture writing about God charging the Prophets to go tell the Chosen People to stop their sinfulness and wickedness and turn back to their God, and the Covenants they made with Him.
 
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My advice would be a Catholic Bible study. Ground yourself in faith. Ground yourself in understanding of Sacred Scripture , and don’t argue/debate/discuss at this point with atheists. Just pray for them.
 
But how do we explain prophecies of deportation, which never occurred?
 
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I’ve seen mention of captives taken by Nebuchadnezzar and released by Cyrus, or something along those lines. It’s not a whole scale deportation like what happened to the Jews, but the prophecy genre is prone to hyperbole.

I’ve seen others say some of these examples are prophecies that will be fulfilled in the future. shrugs
 
It’s proposed in some Biblical commentaries.

Let me rephrase this, is there any reason to think that no captives were taken by Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon during battles with Egypt and Assyria? And is it unthinkable that Cyrus, who is known to have released the Jews from their Exile after ascending to power, would have released other captives taken into exile as well?

The historical evidence is sparse, but if there’s no absolute historical impossibility in the matter, then I’m not going to fret over it.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Is there any other way to interpret this chapter perhaps? I’ve been arguing with an atheist all day and he keeps bringing up these things as failed prophecy’s.
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An atheist who cites Scripture? Remarkable!
“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”

William Shakespeare
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Do not let your faith be weakened by “failed” prophecies. I don’t know, perhaps the prophecy has not come true yet, or it was meant figuratively, or your friend is mis-reading it. I am not familiar with the passage. Give more thought to Bible passages about God’s love, mercy, and salvation.

And do not be troubled. Be not afraid. Peace be with you.
 
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To me, there are a few things needed for a proper prophecy:
  1. It can’t be so vague as to be worthless. If I say there will be a major event that will shake the world in 2018, that major event can be just about anything that makes headlines around the world.
  2. It has to be something that possibly could not happen. If I say there will be a war in the next year, well of course there will be a war somewhere.
  3. It has to be clear when it has been fulfilled or not fulfilled. This is the one most relevant to this topic. There is no reason that a fulfilled prophecy shouldn’t be shown to be fulfilled. There was a very bad psychic/actor named Criswell who predicted that John F. Kennedy would not run for re-election in 1964 because something was going to happen to him in November 1963. That something ended up being his assassination. Now that in no way means he was psychic. A look at his other predictions show he clearly wasn’t. But it is a prophecy/prediction that we can clearly say was accurate. When people try to say prophecies like the one in Jeremiah 43 were fulfilled, it requires playing fast and loose with the text. It says A, but it really means B. And it says C, but D is kind of like C. The more that the text is undercut and devalued, the more the prophecy as a whole is undercut and devalued.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
Is there any other way to interpret this chapter perhaps? I’ve been arguing with an atheist all day and he keeps bringing up these things as failed prophecy’s.
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I’m glad I read that you’re arguing with an atheist. Since I am a former atheist, I know that atheists argue from the point of denial and confusion. They don’t argue with the intent of arriving at truth because for them, truth is relative.

For example. Jesus points to the story of Jonah in the belly of the fish for three days as a prophecy of His death and resurrection.

Another example, which resembles more closely this dilemma, is the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus said that not one stone would lay upon another. Yet we see great stretches of the Temple that are intact to this day. It’s called the Wailing Wall.

Anyway, God predicted the destruction of Egypt by Babylonia. Babylonia utterly defeated Egypt in Carchemish. That’s the answer, if he doesn’t like it, he’ll just have to live with it.
 
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